Change? Is that what we really wanted? It's what we're getting.

But unlike Obama and other's that followed this mantra, I do not believe we need 'change.' We need reform. There is a difference.

Edmond Burke said it best:

There is a manifest, marked distinction, which ill men with ill designs, or weak men incapable of any design, will constantly be confounding,---that is, a marked distinction between change and reformation. The former alters the substance of the objects themselves, and gets rid of all their essential good as well as of all the accidental evil annexed to them. Change is novelty; and whether it is to operate any one of the effects of reformation at all, or whether it may not contradict the very principle upon which reformation is desired, cannot be known beforehand. Reform is not change in the substance or in the primary modification of the object, but a direct application of a remedy to the grievance complained of. So far as that is removed, all is sure. It stops there; and if it fails, the substance which underwent the operation, at the very worst, is but where it was. ...Peter James Stanlis, Edmund Berke: The Enlightenment and Revolution 213, citing Edmund Burke, "A Letter to a Noble Lord," Works, vol. 5 186

He's not the only one that's sought to change more than just a few 'programs' within the Government. The destruction of our Constitution has been under attack for a long, long, time.

We cannot nor should we try to change the Constitution or it's meaning. It was a set of principles marked in 'stone' not a living stream that alters with the world around us as evidence by this explanation by James Madison, the 'father' of the Constitution:

I entirely concur in the propriety of restoring to the sense in which the Constitution was accepted and ratified by the nation. In that sense alone it is the legitimate Constitution. And if that be not the guide in expounding it, there can be no security for a consistent and stable, more than for a faithful exercise of it's powers. If the meaning of the text be sought in the changeable meaning of the words composing it, it is evident that the shapes and attributes of the Governemtnt must partake of the changes to which the words and phrases of all living languages are constantly subject. What a metamorphosis would be produced in the code of law if all its ancient phraseology were to be taken in its modern sense. And that the language of our Constitution is already undergoing interpretations unknown to its founders, will I believe appear to all unbiased Enquirers into the history of its origin and adoption.

I always asked and still do, "What change? Where, when, how?

Get rid of the same ol' dragons in Congress? YES! Business as usual? YES! But, so far, that hasn't been accomplished.

So, tell me your own ideas of what 'change' meant and has it happened yet?

Also, my sister-in-law asked me this weekend, why the news only talks about the bad things, why don't they ever say anything about the good? Of course I just HAD to ask her.. "What good would that be?" (now understand that she is a wealthy woman living in So. California) Her reply was (after a long period of thinking) "Well, we have a new party in office and it takes time to get things rolling. The Stock Market isn't crashing as hard as it was (she would know!) and.. hmmm. OH, there's great investment opportunities in the housing market!"

That was her answer. Fair enough for her, though she really didn't have an answer as to just WHO could get the loans to invest in the hot properties market right now.


Someone please tell me what is good about anything going on right now?.. I could really use the good news.

I'm SERIOUS!

1) The changes you wanted vs the changes you've seen.

2) Anything good out there to report on?

The most important change I wanted was for George Bush to no longer be the President of the United States and thankfully he's not. For now, and after 8 years of his criminal tyrannical nightmare of a Presidency, that's a HUGE change, and quite frankly it's good enough for me.

Bush is NOT the President anymore: That's change you CAN believe in!

quote:

Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:
The most important change I wanted was for George Bush to no longer be the President of the United States and thankfully he's not. For now, and after 8 years of his criminal tyrannical nightmare of a Presidency, that's a HUGE change, and quite frankly it's good enough for me.

Bush is NOT the President anymore: That's change you CAN believe in!

+1...........

Geez, instead we get an no experience a$$clown twit who is hellbent on appearing on television rather than dealing with issues in America.

Cash for Clunkers...Cash for Clunker Appliances (Pending)...Great change, you democrats sure are proud of Obie.

C.R.

quote:

Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:
The most important change I wanted was for George Bush to no longer be the President of the United States and thankfully he's not. For now, and after 8 years of his criminal tyrannical nightmare of a Presidency, that's a HUGE change, and quite frankly it's good enough for me.

Bush is NOT the President anymore: That's change you CAN believe in!

quote:

Originally posted by NSNN:

quote:

Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:
The most important change I wanted was for George Bush to no longer be the President of the United States and thankfully he's not. For now, and after 8 years of his criminal tyrannical nightmare of a Presidency, that's a HUGE change, and quite frankly it's good enough for me.

Bush is NOT the President anymore: That's change you CAN believe in!

I could understand that if he had been running again, but he wasn't going to be the president anymore anyway... sooo.. you're point for voting for Obama was so GW wouldn't be president anymore?

No, I voted for him because IMO, he was the better of the two candidates running and I could not abide by the possibility of a President Palin, otherwise I probably would have voted for John McCain. With regard to change, many Americans were so fed up with Bush, change is measured simply in the fact that he is gone, and a better man is in office.

quote:

Originally posted by Marine5711:

quote:

Originally posted by NSNN:

quote:

Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:
The most important change I wanted was for George Bush to no longer be the President of the United States and thankfully he's not. For now, and after 8 years of his criminal tyrannical nightmare of a Presidency, that's a HUGE change, and quite frankly it's good enough for me.

Bush is NOT the President anymore: That's change you CAN believe in!

I could understand that if he had been running again, but he wasn't going to be the president anymore anyway... sooo.. you're point for voting for Obama was so GW wouldn't be president anymore?

No, I think the reasons for voting for Obama was that by the time of the election McCain did not represent enough of a change from W. When running from a burning building, people will risk drowning in the pond if the only other choice is the match factory next door.

quote:

Originally posted by cosmicfish:

quote:

Originally posted by Marine5711:

quote:

Originally posted by NSNN:

quote:

Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:
The most important change I wanted was for George Bush to no longer be the President of the United States and thankfully he's not. For now, and after 8 years of his criminal tyrannical nightmare of a Presidency, that's a HUGE change, and quite frankly it's good enough for me.

Bush is NOT the President anymore: That's change you CAN believe in!

I could understand that if he had been running again, but he wasn't going to be the president anymore anyway... sooo.. you're point for voting for Obama was so GW wouldn't be president anymore?

No, I think the reasons for voting for Obama was that by the time of the election McCain did not represent enough of a change from W. When running from a burning building, people will risk drowning in the pond if the only other choice is the match factory next door.

Fair enough. But of the changes he stated he would implement, have they come about and are they a good change? or are they actually more of the same?

Sometimes the cure is worse than the disease.

Apart from that, a good example of the kind of change I wanted to happen under President Obama, and which has happened...

President Obama signed an executive order ending an 8 year ban on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research, stating that his administration would make "scientific decisions based on facts, not ideology."

Want more?

quote:

Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:
Apart from that, a good example of the kind of change I wanted to happen under President Obama, and which has happened...

President Obama signed an executive order ending an 8 year ban on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research, stating that his administration would make "scientific decisions based on facts, not ideology."

Want more?

I agree with you on that one. Sure.. I'll take all you can give me!

quote:

Want more?

One thing right in 9 months? Gee, what a hero!

C.R.

quote:

Originally posted by CYCLIC_RUNAWAY:

quote:

Want more?

One thing right in 9 months? Gee, what a hero!

C.R.

Not to in any way diminish from the importance of Obama's executive order regarding stem cell research, because to me, it's HUGE and will have far reaching implications but what's even more important to me as a CHANGE I can believe in is the underlying principle behind it, that his administration will make "scientific decisions based on facts, not ideology."

So I can now rest assured that future decisions under President Obama's Administration will be made with this principle in mind and that gives me hope and peace of mind. I no longer have to worry about GW putting his quaisi-religious IDIOT stamp on important issues of the day. Or the undo influence from the religious right...

quote:

Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:
Apart from that, a good example of the kind of change I wanted to happen under President Obama, and which has happened...

President Obama signed an executive order ending an 8 year ban on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research, stating that his administration would make "scientific decisions based on facts, not ideology."

Want more?

How long does it take to sign an executiven order? 9 Months? Yes, you're damn right I want more. Why don't you?

Let me remind you what we had after 9 months of GW...

Just when I go an start to have a little hope for you, you screw it up with total stupidity and childish petulance. Bush is gone. It isn't an excuse for the utter incompetence of the current CIC. Deep inside, you know your demigod is a loser.

quote:

Let me remind you what we had after 9 months of GW...

So....George Bush is somehow responsible for the events of 9/11/2001 just because Obie is a twit?

C.R.

quote:

Change we can Believe In

What bho failed to tell us, was the change he was speaking of was from a free country to a communist apologetic country.

We soooo sorry for feeding the world. we soooo sorry the the terrorist had to attack us, we soooo sorry for killing terrorist. we sooo sorry that our country wasn't embraced islam.

quote:

Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:
The most important change I wanted was for George Bush to no longer be the President of the United States and thankfully he's not. For now, and after 8 years of his criminal tyrannical nightmare of a Presidency, that's a HUGE change, and quite frankly it's good enough for me.

Bush is NOT the President anymore: That's change you CAN believe in!

Bush may be out of office, but most of his policies are living on under Obama as well as a bunch more tyranny is heading our way.



That is Change "ONLY YOU" can believe in!

quote:

Originally posted by CYCLIC_RUNAWAY:

quote:

Let me remind you what we had after 9 months of GW...

So....George Bush is somehow responsible for the events of 9/11/2001 just because Obie is a twit?

C.R.

Military HQ of the United States attacked under his watch.

quote:

Originally posted by AngelHeart:
Just when I go an start to have a little hope for you, you screw it up with total stupidity and childish petulance. Bush is gone. It isn't an excuse for the utter incompetence of the current CIC. Deep inside, you know your demigod is a loser.

Amen sister, I couldn't have said it better myself.

quote:

Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:

quote:

Originally posted by CYCLIC_RUNAWAY:

quote:

Let me remind you what we had after 9 months of GW...

So....George Bush is somehow responsible for the events of 9/11/2001 just because Obie is a twit?

C.R.

Military HQ of the United States attacked under his watch.

WTF is your point moron?

GRAYMAN

quote:

Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:
Let me remind you what we had after 9 months of GW...

I guess hurricane katrina was Bush's fault too. This post makes no sense. Actually clintoon had more hand in this than President Bush. This is what was hand too President Bush. Mybe if clintoon was more worried about National security than shoving cigars up inside interns, maybe he would had some insight on this to pass along to President Bush.

quote:

Military HQ of the United States attacked under his watch.

George Bush may have been in office, but he surely didn't stand idle like others have in the past after an attack. Grow up, I think your peers would agree as well. Enough said.

C.R.

quote:

Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:

quote:

Originally posted by CYCLIC_RUNAWAY:

quote:

Let me remind you what we had after 9 months of GW...

So....George Bush is somehow responsible for the events of 9/11/2001 just because Obie is a twit?

C.R.

Military HQ of the United States attacked under his watch.

Ya know, if you were smarter,(too bad your not) you wouldn't keep throwing the topic off with you irrational rage and hatred for Bush. With the way Obama is dealing with our international allies and enemies, we might have a 3rd world war on our hands before he is finished. Where will your sorry, conspiracy theory rants be then? The same place they are now...nowhere.

quote:

Originally posted by CYCLIC_RUNAWAY:

quote:

Military HQ of the United States attacked under his watch.

George Bush may have been in office, but he surely didn't stand idle like others have in the past after an attack. Grow up, I think your peers would agree as well. Enough said.

C.R.

You're right, he didn't stand idle, he sat idle...



I know, I know, he didn't wanna scare the kids and of course the Secret Service must have known he would be safe to just sit there in a publicly known location surrounded by school children while hijacked planes were hitting targets all over the east coast...

quote:

Originally posted by mnoble1066:

quote:

Originally posted by AngelHeart:
Just when I go an start to have a little hope for you, you screw it up with total stupidity and childish petulance. Bush is gone. It isn't an excuse for the utter incompetence of the current CIC. Deep inside, you know your demigod is a loser.

Amen sister, I couldn't have said it better myself.

Too bad reality won't penetrate that thick skull huh?

quote:

That was her answer. Fair enough for her, though she really didn't have an answer as to just WHO could get the loans to invest in the hot properties market right now.

Everybody qualified for a (twisty sort of) mortgage during the Bush years because there was always someone around to fudge numbers. 20k income and a 500 FICO score wasn't a hindrance in 2004.

With home prices where they are now, and 30 year fixed rate mortgages around 5 percent...

Pretty much anyone with decent credit and a household income above 40k.

Throw in a tax credit for first-time homebuyers and energy credits for new furnaces and windows and such...

It's a buyers' market.

Who won't reap the benefit?

Those who've overleveraged another home.
Those who've not kept up with their mortgages.
Those who've decided that 'walking away' from a bad deal was a good idea.

Countrywide's not out there writing ARMs on the back of fraudulent income and credit reports anymore, so I guess that leaves out a certain segment of the population as well...which gives the option to rent out that second property with the mortgage underwater to someone who properly doesn't qualify for homeownership.

I'm also happy with the level of engagement of the average American in political doings these days. Perhaps the level of vitriol is so high because we have a lot of folks participating who aren't well steeped in political asskissing and niceties and such.

With some polish, there will be a large new crop of potential candidates--starting at the local level, where real change can be most quickly and visibly implemented.

That's how your viable third party candidate will get her start there independents/libertarians/whigs in waiting.

quote:

Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:

quote:

Originally posted by CYCLIC_RUNAWAY:

quote:

Military HQ of the United States attacked under his watch.

George Bush may have been in office, but he surely didn't stand idle like others have in the past after an attack. Grow up, I think your peers would agree as well. Enough said.

C.R.

You're right, he didn't stand idle, he sat idle...

Is that the best you got? I guess you could do better than President Bush. He was probably like the rest of us, in dis-belief. Go home and worship your leper messiah. obie will solve all your wittle problems, hell he'll take care of you and your thoughts.

quote:

Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:

quote:

Originally posted by CYCLIC_RUNAWAY:

quote:

Military HQ of the United States attacked under his watch.

George Bush may have been in office, but he surely didn't stand idle like others have in the past after an attack. Grow up, I think your peers would agree as well. Enough said.

C.R.

You're right, he didn't stand idle, he sat idle...

Yes, reading a children's book to school children, just when the attacks occurred makes him guilty of the planning of it all on our country.