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Military.com    Military.com Forums  Hop To Forum Categories  Hot Topics & Current Events  Hop To Forums  Point-Counterpoint    Bush says Demos leaving America at risk
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Bush says Demos leaving America at risk
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FriscoLady01
Experienced Member
Picture of FriscoLady01
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by outlaws93:
quote:
Originally posted by foxred03:
quote:
Originally posted by outlaws93:
quote:
Originally posted by FriscoLady01:
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

I am not a Democrat or a Republican, my beliefs are closer to those of a Libertarian.

I do not support this law or for that matter much of any of the security laws that have been rammed down our throats.

In my opinion those who want these laws well Benjamin Franklin said it best: "deserve neither liberty nor safety!"

Frisco


oh bs is that all you can do is quote other peoples ??? get real and support what needs to be done to protect our own.... otherwise we will in fact loose it.... and i say ben didnt have to deal with islamic terrorist on the level that we have today.... they are using our owen system against us and that needs to stop....or there will be nothing left but a islamic nation where you cant even go out side unless you have a man with you.... so whatever ... your mama though the nazis were bad which she did support well the islamofascist are even worse....


How are the "islomofascist(s)" worse than the Nazis? You have seriously lost it. Islamic terrorists or whatever you want to call them cannot take over the world. oh yea?? At the very most, they can take over a few governments in the middle east. Hardly dominating an entire continent like the Nazis did in a few short years. Terrorism is a psychological tool, the physical impacts of it are minor compared to a conventional war. But something about their methods creates a huge amount of fear and then politicians and citizens will give away almost anything to ensure their safety.

As has already been stated, Bush should have signed the bill without blanket immunity for the tele companies. because it protects the people reporting the possable terrorist from getting sued and having their name and addy given to the possable terrorist.... how would you like to be on a hit list and have your family in jeporidy just because you intercepted a terrorist conversation and reported it??


If the information that is given by the phone companies is incorrect then they SHOULD BE SUED for every penny they have! As for the other - there are already provisions to protect witnesses - it is called the Witness Protection program. Geese!

Oh and as for the "Islamofacists" WHHHHOOOOOE I AM SO SCARED OF THEM TAKING OVER THE WORLD! Fat Chance!

I am more afraid of our current administration getting us into a shooting war with half the world than they will take over the world at the moment.
 
Posts: 5204 | Registered: Fri 22 December 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by FriscoLady01 posted Show Post
outlaws93
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no they should not be sued.... and if they know they might get sued they might not tell of a possible threat that does pan out.... no they need to be immune from prosecution...
 
Posts: 39661 | Registered: Thu 18 August 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by outlaws93 posted Show Post
FriscoLady01
Experienced Member
Picture of FriscoLady01
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by outlaws93:
no they should not be sued.... and if they know they might get sued they might not tell of a possible threat that does pan out.... no they need to be immune from prosecution...


And that sir is denying the right to civil redress for harm done to a citizen. And yes they should also be liable to criminal prosecution, but I forgot you expouse the right of the Imperial Federal Government to do anything it pleases and the citizen has no rights for redress.

You have no concept of freedom, and liberty, and rights.

Sad!

Frisco
 
Posts: 5204 | Registered: Fri 22 December 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by FriscoLady01 posted Show Post
outlaws93
Banned by admin
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quote:
Oh and as for the "Islamofacists" WHHHHOOOOOE I AM SO SCARED OF THEM TAKING OVER THE WORLD! Fat Chance!

well unless you convert i would be worried.... and it is starting all over Europe.... just read some of these threads shara law being requested in England France and Spain are on their way also... it wont be a all of a sudden thing but over time it will .... well if it dosent get put in its place first.... but then again few though hitler wouldnt try to take over the world either and they wernt worried about it too much....well till their country fell to him and the nazis...
 
Posts: 39661 | Registered: Thu 18 August 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by outlaws93 posted Show Post
outlaws93
Banned by admin
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by FriscoLady01:
quote:
Originally posted by outlaws93:
no they should not be sued.... and if they know they might get sued they might not tell of a possible threat that does pan out.... no they need to be immune from prosecution...


And that sir is denying the right to civil redress for harm done to a citizen. And yes they should also be liable to criminal prosecution, but I forgot you expouse the right of the Imperial Federal Government to do anything it pleases and the citizen has no rights for redress.

You have no concept of freedom, and liberty, and rights.

Sad!

Frisco


citizens??? we are talking about terrorist and their supporters....
 
Posts: 39661 | Registered: Thu 18 August 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by outlaws93 posted Show Post
FriscoLady01
Experienced Member
Picture of FriscoLady01
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by outlaws93:
quote:
Originally posted by FriscoLady01:
quote:
Originally posted by outlaws93:
no they should not be sued.... and if they know they might get sued they might not tell of a possible threat that does pan out.... no they need to be immune from prosecution...


And that sir is denying the right to civil redress for harm done to a citizen. And yes they should also be liable to criminal prosecution, but I forgot you expouse the right of the Imperial Federal Government to do anything it pleases and the citizen has no rights for redress.

You have no concept of freedom, and liberty, and rights.

Sad!

Frisco


citizens??? we are talking about terrorist and their supporters....


Yes I know, and I am talking about ANY phone call made to or from the confines of the U.S. and if it involves a U.S. Citizen or not for that matter on this side then there HAS to be resonable protections as guaranteed by the Constitution that would require a warrant to be issued by proof of probable cause BEFORE ANY phone call is tapped and reasonable assurences that if in the course of an Investigation a mistake is made by the phone companies that they would be open to both criminal a civil prosecution. Our Constitutional protections for both citizens and non-citizens (within the borders of the U.S.) must remain in force or we are no better than the terrorist.



Frisco
 
Posts: 5204 | Registered: Fri 22 December 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by FriscoLady01 posted Show Post
outlaws93
Banned by admin
posted Hide Post
ahh so now you are flipping it changing the subject of it... ahh ok ... Roll Eyes
 
Posts: 39661 | Registered: Thu 18 August 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by outlaws93 posted Show Post
stillkit




Stillkit
Picture of stillkit
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Toome:
It's a damned shame that this issue has now been reduced to Democrats vs Republicans. And I have to admit that I am disappointed in President Bush for the first time. I've disagreed with some of his decisions in the past, but it was always a difference of perspective (e.g. disagreed with his stance against stem cell research but respected where he was coming from, etc). At the very center of this issue, to me, is the authority of Government to essentially go on intelligence collection "fishing expeditions" on US citizens and other persons protected by the Constitution under the banner of fighting terrorism. And I've expounded on this in other threads; no need to do so again here.

The question I have for the President is: why the rush? Why the shortcut? Why not take the necessary steps as stipulated in the Constitution to make sure the evidence against an American citizen is solid before taking the invasive step of wiretapping?

For those who fail to understand a fundamental difference, I'll spell it out for you: when it comes to intelligence collection, in other words, those actions taken by the United States against a foreign power, foreign entity or international terrorist group, there is no restriction nor should there ever be any restriction. However, whenever that collection involves a US citizen or other person protected by the Constitution (such as legal immigrants, resident aliens, etc.), then the US Government needs to slow the f%ck down and follow the rules of evidence as stipulated by the Constitution of the United States and as upheld on numerous occasions by the Supreme Court. The collection effort is no longer an intelligence collection one; it becomes a criminal investigation because the information can now be used as evidence to prosecute accused Americans of a crime. The rules of engagement now change from intelligence collection to evidence collection. And whenever it becomes a matter of using evidence against an American, then it's a matter of Government following the exact same procedures in wiretapping as it would for a house search. What is so difficult about that?

Is the nation truly weakened by not supporting warrantless wiretapping? No, not at all. US citizens remain protected from unnecessary government intrusion; Government must show cause before invading the privacy of US citizens in order to collect evidence it suspects that is related to terrorism or any other crime. This is a good thing. I cannot see how circumventing this is better.

As for international terrorists themselves, they are still the bona fide targets of US intelligence agencies and US special operations. Nothing changes that; nothing will other than a change in policy by a US President with or without Congressional consent. This presidential prerogative has been in place ever since the days of George Washington, so it is today, so it will be in the future. This nonsense about Democrats in the White House being soft on terrorism is a bunch of bull$hit. President Clinton didn't hesitate to use this special executive prerogative, and I certainly don't envision Barack Obama (if he should be elected) changing it.

Maybe I'm missing something. But I am disappointed that President Bush has resorted to scare tactics and rhetoric in a matter that I truly don't see affecting how the alphabet agencies of the intelligence and SOF communities do their jobs.



Applause Applause

It absolutely could not have been said better! Bravo!
 
Posts: 7522 | Registered: Sun 25 November 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by stillkit posted Show Post
stillkit




Stillkit
Picture of stillkit
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by outlaws93:
no they should not be sued.... and if they know they might get sued they might not tell of a possible threat that does pan out.... no they need to be immune from prosecution...



A legitimate search warrant would make them immune. What's wrong with that?
 
Posts: 7522 | Registered: Sun 25 November 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by stillkit posted Show Post
Aco275RGR
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
It is kind of funny that you are making the Nazi analogy, because the tactics that Bush is now using are pretty much the same that they used when it came to removing freedoms from the general population.


BINGO...If one looks at what the Nazi Government did after the Reighstadt fire and what the Bush Administration did after 9/11 one will find some terrible similarities.

No one is comparing the Nazi's holocaust to our war on terror, but the Policies these governments followed to "Protect" their citizens after a national tragedy are very real and very similiar.


So a big **** YOU, to all the facists out there who want to steal our freedoms because of some hysterial coward rants about "security" lock up the damn border first...LOL

ITS ALL A DAMN JOKE....and the more stupid people there are to buy it the closer to reality it will get.
 
Posts: 2046 | Registered: Tue 12 February 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by Aco275RGR posted Show Post
FriscoLady01
Experienced Member
Picture of FriscoLady01
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Aco275RGR:
quote:
It is kind of funny that you are making the Nazi analogy, because the tactics that Bush is now using are pretty much the same that they used when it came to removing freedoms from the general population.


BINGO...If one looks at what the Nazi Government did after the Reighstadt fire and what the Bush Administration did after 9/11 one will find some terrible similarities.

No one is comparing the Nazi's holocaust to our war on terror, but the Policies these governments followed to "Protect" their citizens after a national tragedy are very real and very similiar.


So a big **** YOU, to all the facists out there who want to steal our freedoms because of some hysterial coward rants about "security" lock up the damn border first...LOL

ITS ALL A DAMN JOKE....and the more stupid people there are to buy it the closer to reality it will get.


Applause

Thank You you said it well!! Better than I have been able to word it.

Frisco
 
Posts: 5204 | Registered: Fri 22 December 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by FriscoLady01 posted Show Post
outlaws93
Banned by admin
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Aco275RGR:
quote:
It is kind of funny that you are making the Nazi analogy, because the tactics that Bush is now using are pretty much the same that they used when it came to removing freedoms from the general population.


BINGO...If one looks at what the Nazi Government did after the Reighstadt fire and what the Bush Administration did after 9/11 one will find some terrible similarities. name them... come on mr America has turned into a fascist state name them...

No one is comparing the Nazi's holocaust to our war on terror, but the Policies these governments followed to "Protect" their citizens after a national tragedy are very real and very similiar. again name them.... name our policies and the nazis policy and how they are similer..


So a big **** YOU, to all the facists out there who want to steal our freedoms because of some hysterial coward rants about "security" lock up the damn border first...LOL yea same to you no one is trying to steal you rights freedoms or anything... what is wanting to be done is nothing that already hasnt happen in the civil war ww1 and ww2... after the crap is over everything goes back... just like every time before.. so any way name what rights you have lost and when did you loose them...

ITS ALL A DAMN JOKE....and the more stupid people there are to buy it the closer to reality it will get.


no its not a joke...not one bit... 9\11 was real and there is a real threat and they are plotting and planing waiting for an opening....
 
Posts: 39661 | Registered: Thu 18 August 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by outlaws93 posted Show Post
outlaws93
Banned by admin
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by FriscoLady01:
quote:
Originally posted by Aco275RGR:
quote:
It is kind of funny that you are making the Nazi analogy, because the tactics that Bush is now using are pretty much the same that they used when it came to removing freedoms from the general population.


BINGO...If one looks at what the Nazi Government did after the Reighstadt fire and what the Bush Administration did after 9/11 one will find some terrible similarities.

No one is comparing the Nazi's holocaust to our war on terror, but the Policies these governments followed to "Protect" their citizens after a national tragedy are very real and very similiar.


So a big **** YOU, to all the facists out there who want to steal our freedoms because of some hysterial coward rants about "security" lock up the damn border first...LOL

ITS ALL A DAMN JOKE....and the more stupid people there are to buy it the closer to reality it will get.


Applause

Thank You you said it well!! Better than I have been able to word it.

Frisco


naw pretty much the same stale hate filled crap you have been spurting yourself...
 
Posts: 39661 | Registered: Thu 18 August 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by outlaws93 posted Show Post
Aco275RGR
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Brittanica Online Encyclopaedia describes the Reichstag Fire as "a key event in the establishment of the Nazi dictatorship and sometimes believed to have been contrived by the newly formed Nazi government itself to turn public opinion against its opponents and to assume emergency powers." Or, in other words, a commonly held belief is that the Nazis themselves set the fire and blamed it on their political opponents.


Of course there are vast differences here. But 9/11 was a HUGE event that was used as a catalyst for future endeavors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichstag_Fire_Decree

quote:
On the evening of February 27, 1933 — six days before the parliamentary election — fire broke out in the Reichstag chambers. While the exact circumstances of the fire remain unclear to this day, what is clear is that Hitler and his supporters quickly capitalized on the fire as a means by which to speed their consolidation of power. Seizing on the burning of the Reichstag building as the opening salvo in a communist uprising, the Nazis were able to throw millions of Germans into a convulsion of fear at the threat of Communist terror. The official account stated:

The burning of the Reichstag was intended to be the signal for a bloody uprising and civil war. Large-scale pillaging in Berlin was planned.... It has been determined that ... throughout Germany acts of terrorism were to begin against prominent individuals, against private property, against the lives and safety of the peaceful population, and general civil war was to be unleashed....


There were terrorists in Nazi Germany too, except they were jewish communist and the masses were thrown into hysteria...Sound familiar?

quote:
The decree, officially the Verordnung des Reichspräsidenten zum Schutz von Volk und Staat (Order of the Reich President for the Protection of People and State), invoked the authority of Article 48 of the Weimar Constitution which allowed the Reichspräsident to take any appropriate measure to remedy dangers to public safety.


There it is again, mass hysteria and fear used to seize unquestioned authority...


quote:


On the basis of Article 48 paragraph 2 of the Constitution of the German Reich, the following is ordered in defense against Communist state-endangering acts of violence


Articles 114, 115, 117, 118, 123, 124 and 153 of the Constitution of the German Reich are suspended until further notice. It is therefore permissible to restrict the rights of personal freedom [habeas corpus], freedom of opinion, including the freedom of the press, the freedom to organize and assemble, the privacy of postal, telegraphic and telephonic communications, and warrants for house searches, orders for confiscations as well as restrictions on property, are also permissible beyond the legal limits otherwise prescribed.


Most of those things do not apply to us, the Facists in the Bush Administration know it would be suicide to attempt, but they did try and continue too:

quote:
the privacy of postal, telegraphic and telephonic communications, and warrants for house searches,


Lets Listen to Adolph Hitlers right hand man, Hermann Goring:

quote:
In keeping with the purpose and aim of the decree the additional measures ... will be directed against the Communists in the first instance, but then also against those who co-operate with the Communists and who support or encourage their criminal aims.... I would point out that any necessary measures against members or establishments of other than Communist, anarchist or Social Democratic parties can only be justified by the decree ... if they serve to help the defense against such Communist activities in the widest sense.


So you see, They were telling the Germans "Don't worry, if you're not providing aid and comfort to the enemy this does not apply to you" and that is why many Americans oppose ANY restrictions on our freedoms no matter how small because of external threats.

Lets continue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling_Act_of_1933

quote:
The formal name of the Enabling Act was Gesetz zur Behebung der Not von Volk und Reich ("Law to Remedy the Distress of the People and the Nation").


It even has a name no one would dare argue against...Kind of like the Patriot Act.

quote:
ARTICLE 2:Laws enacted by the government of the Reich may deviate from the constitution as long as they do not affect the institutions of the Reichstag and the Reichsrat. The rights of the President remain undisturbed.


May deviate from the constitution so long as....

quote:
ARTICLE 3:Laws enacted by the Reich government shall be issued by the Chancellor and announced in the Reich Gazette. They shall take effect on the day following the announcement, unless they prescribe a different date. Articles 68 to 77 of the Constitution do not apply to laws enacted by the Reich government.


Article 68 and 77 of the Constitution do not apply to laws enacted by the Reich government.....There it is again....Slowly but surely the constitution is being ripped and gutted, for the protection of the state and people of course.


quote:
ARTICLE 4:Treaties of the Reich with foreign states which affect matters of Reich legislation shall not require the approval of the bodies of the legislature. The government of the Reich shall issue the regulations required for the execution of such treaties.


Shall not require the approval of the bodies of the legislature....Its becoming quite obvious isn't it?

quote:
Under the Act, the government had acquired the authority to pass laws without either parliamentary consent or control. Unprecedentedly, these laws could even deviate from the Constitution.



You guys ever heard of Presidential Directive 51? Here is a short clip that explains what the Bush Administration wants incase of another "National Emergency":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjZymcRfDTs

(Please watch the clip despite it being on devil-youtube its footage from CSPAN)

Here is what I am trying to say:

The Bush Administration has indeed tried to strip Americans from basic rights by using hysterical paranoid fear-mongering rants....This is the same strategy the Nazi Government used to strip their citizens of basic rights, unfortunately they did not have 24/7 information at their finger tips and had to "trust" their government...After all, the German people were under seize after the reighstag fire Roll Eyes

Its the same crap...Fear Tactics, unnecessary laws that ONLY benefit the government, the vilification of an outside "enemy" to muster support, "Homeland Defense"?? The Nazi's originated that stupid term...


One day i belive, when i'm too old to read this text the truth will show the Bush Administration had a different agenda planned for America. This is not a Bush bash, he is too much of a simpleton, its the men behind the veil I worry about.
 
Posts: 2046 | Registered: Tue 12 February 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by Aco275RGR posted Show Post
stillkit




Stillkit
Picture of stillkit
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by outlaws93:
after the crap is over everything goes back... just like every time before..



That might be true except for one small item you've forgotten: This war won't end any time soon. There is no sense of urgency in our strategy to win it and, in fact, it has been deliberately planned to take AT LEAST a generation to complete, if not longer. Back in the initial days, we even heard the term "perpetual war," bandied about.

During that amount of time, a whole new generation of citizens will have been born, come to adulthood and never know what's been lost. They'll have no memory of days when government didn't have the power to watch everything you do. It'll just be dry history to them and those who do remember will mostly be dead.

What do you think the likelihood is that our liberties would return when so few alive then will even know what they were?

Therein lies the real danger. Were we committed to doing everything necessary to win the war in the shortest possible time, I would agree with you. But, we're not and that changes the dynamics of the question IF you care about the kind of nation your kids and grandkids will live in after you're gone.

Which is more important? Your safety, or their liberty?
 
Posts: 7522 | Registered: Sun 25 November 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by stillkit posted Show Post
rayld2
Highly Experienced Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by rpschnecksr:
What are they afraid of, the government finding out that they arre doing something illegal?

It seems that they want to blind-side American and let radicals kill more americans. My Opinion.


Any right once surrendered is VERY hard to recover and just makes it easier for the government to take away more rights.
 
Posts: 13828 | Registered: Wed 02 July 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by rayld2 posted Show Post
rayld2
Highly Experienced Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by FriscoLady01:
quote:
Originally posted by Migbuster:
They can tape me all they want. I have nothing to hide.


I have nothing to hide either and they can tape me all the want, however I expect all the Constitutional protections to be followed! I do not trust a government that cannot justify or does not want to justify it's snooping into a Citizens affairs, even if the phone call originates from outside the U.S. from another source.

The requirement for a warrant prior to tapping or searching was put there for the protection of the citizen not the government, therefore in my opinion show just cause for a warrant obtain the warrant properly as is currently required or do without.

Also the telcom companies should have absolutely no protection under the law, if they muck up in anyway that may unjustly damage a citizen they should be held liable in civil courts to the highest degree.

Frisco


And the FISA law does not even require that the warrant be obtained BEFORE starting the tap. I forget exactly how long they have but they have something like 2 or 3 days after starting a tap before they have to submit the request for a warrant.
There has NEVER been any delay with FISA that was NOT caused by the agencies themselves. A couple of the primary causes of delay have been:
* Making a lot of requests after the courts forced the Bush Admin to follow the law
* No training, etc. on how to submit a FISA request resulting in a large number of requests that needed to be modified by the submitting agency

This message has been edited. Last edited by: rayld2,
 
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Ignored post by rayld2 posted Show Post
BPCR45_90
Experienced Member
Picture of BPCR45_90
posted Hide Post
Roll Eyes Thankfully, few people seem to care what Bush says at this point.
 
Posts: 3508 | Registered: Sat 16 December 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by BPCR45_90 posted Show Post
VietVet1stCavDoc
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by outlaws93:
quote:
Originally posted by VietVet1stCavDoc:
quote:
Originally posted by outlaws93:
quote:
Originally posted by FriscoLady01:
"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin

I am not a Democrat or a Republican, my beliefs are closer to those of a Libertarian.

I do not support this law or for that matter much of any of the security laws that have been rammed down our throats.

In my opinion those who want these laws well Benjamin Franklin said it best: "deserve neither liberty nor safety!"

Frisco


oh bs is that all you can do is quote other peoples ??? get real and support what needs to be done to protect our own.... otherwise we will in fact loose it.... and i say ben didnt have to deal with islamic terrorist on the level that we have today.... they are using our owen system against us and that needs to stop....or there will be nothing left but a islamic nation where you cant even go out side unless you have a man with you.... so whatever ... your mama though the nazis were bad which she did support well the islamofascist are even worse....


It is kind of funny that you are making the Nazi analogy, because the tactics that Bush is now using are pretty much the same that they used when it came to removing freedoms from the general population.


oh bullship go and study the nazis a little while and learn about the horrors they really did do.... there is no compassions one bit... the nazis shot people in the face and gassed them just because they were a different race.... you could not go outside after dark nor could you travel from city to city with our permission and papers .. hell if you said anything bad about de furur you were killed they had families kids telling on parents for being disloyal and they were rounded up and taken to camps not just jail like we have but death camps scattered all over the country and Poland in which only about just under a 1000 people from each camp suvivered... and they only suvevied because the germans ran out of ammo.... so dont give me that we are nazi crap because anyone with a bit of intelligence knows better...


Are you calling me unintelligent because I use my constitutional rights to question my government when I consider it wrong? Are you so blind as not to see to comparisons that I am talking about? The Nazi party changed and made laws under the facade of protecting the people of Germany from these others who main purpose was to destroy Germany. I wasn't talking about death camps and genocide. But to create the laws that started those the government of Germany first had to make their people believe that their financial woes were the fault of the Jews and Communists.
I am not a dumb as you may think I am, and when it comes to history I am quite well read.
 
Posts: 469 | Registered: Tue 10 July 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by VietVet1stCavDoc posted Show Post
VietVet1stCavDoc
Member
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Okay, lets give him this right to violate the constitution and totally invade our privacy. Guess what, next year he isn't president anymore and there will be a new sheriff in town. That sheriff may just be Obama. OMG are we going to give that right to a left wing almost commie, who is accused of being a hidden islamofacist. Do you think he might just start tapping all phone calls in and out of all Christian churches in our nation. After all, it is becoming down right illegal to be a Christian. This will make it real easy to round em all up and feed them to the lions.
 
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Ignored post by VietVet1stCavDoc posted Show Post
FortesFortunaJuvat
20 days off
23 Jan 09
Fin
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People act like their lives will change if the government wiretaps.
 
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Ignored post by FortesFortunaJuvat posted Show Post
stillkit




Stillkit
Picture of stillkit
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quote:
Originally posted by VietVet1stCavDoc:
Okay, lets give him this right to violate the constitution and totally invade our privacy. Guess what, next year he isn't president anymore and there will be a new sheriff in town. That sheriff may just be Obama. OMG are we going to give that right to a left wing almost commie, who is accused of being a hidden islamofacist. Do you think he might just start tapping all phone calls in and out of all Christian churches in our nation. After all, it is becoming down right illegal to be a Christian. This will make it real easy to round em all up and feed them to the lions.



Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

(I'd be a LOT more concerned about handing that kind of power to Hillary.)
 
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Ignored post by stillkit posted Show Post
outlaws93
Banned by admin
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by VietVet1stCavDoc:
Okay, lets give him this right to violate the constitution and totally invade our privacy. Guess what, next year he isn't president anymore and there will be a new sheriff in town. That sheriff may just be Obama. OMG are we going to give that right to a left wing almost commie, who is accused of being a hidden islamofacist. Do you think he might just start tapping all phone calls in and out of all Christian churches in our nation. After all, it is becoming down right illegal to be a Christian. This will make it real easy to round em all up and feed them to the lions.


too bad they have done no such thing... what you are talking about never has happen it is all just in your mind.... it is called paranoid delusional ....accept it it is a part of your life now.... and just remember it isnt as you think it is....
 
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Ignored post by outlaws93 posted Show Post
VietVet1stCavDoc
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by outlaws93:
quote:
Originally posted by VietVet1stCavDoc:
Okay, lets give him this right to violate the constitution and totally invade our privacy. Guess what, next year he isn't president anymore and there will be a new sheriff in town. That sheriff may just be Obama. OMG are we going to give that right to a left wing almost commie, who is accused of being a hidden islamofacist. Do you think he might just start tapping all phone calls in and out of all Christian churches in our nation. After all, it is becoming down right illegal to be a Christian. This will make it real easy to round em all up and feed them to the lions.


too bad they have done no such thing... what you are talking about never has happen it is all just in your mind.... it is called paranoid delusional ....accept it it is a part of your life now.... and just remember it isnt as you think it is....

What's next? What right that we have isn't so important that we don't mind giving it up for security? Our guns, our religions? Beware of the kool aid.
 
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Ignored post by VietVet1stCavDoc posted Show Post
FortesFortunaJuvat
20 days off
23 Jan 09
Fin
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by VietVet1stCavDoc:
quote:
Originally posted by outlaws93:
quote:
Originally posted by VietVet1stCavDoc:
Okay, lets give him this right to violate the constitution and totally invade our privacy. Guess what, next year he isn't president anymore and there will be a new sheriff in town. That sheriff may just be Obama. OMG are we going to give that right to a left wing almost commie, who is accused of being a hidden islamofacist. Do you think he might just start tapping all phone calls in and out of all Christian churches in our nation. After all, it is becoming down right illegal to be a Christian. This will make it real easy to round em all up and feed them to the lions.


too bad they have done no such thing... what you are talking about never has happen it is all just in your mind.... it is called paranoid delusional ....accept it it is a part of your life now.... and just remember it isnt as you think it is....

What's next? What right that we have isn't so important that we don't mind giving it up for security? Our guns, our religions? Beware of the kool aid.


Again, how does wiretapping hurt you?
 
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Ignored post by FortesFortunaJuvat posted Show Post
outlaws93
Banned by admin
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by VietVet1stCavDoc:
quote:
Originally posted by outlaws93:
quote:
Originally posted by VietVet1stCavDoc:
Okay, lets give him this right to violate the constitution and totally invade our privacy. Guess what, next year he isn't president anymore and there will be a new sheriff in town. That sheriff may just be Obama. OMG are we going to give that right to a left wing almost commie, who is accused of being a hidden islamofacist. Do you think he might just start tapping all phone calls in and out of all Christian churches in our nation. After all, it is becoming down right illegal to be a Christian. This will make it real easy to round em all up and feed them to the lions.


too bad they have done no such thing... what you are talking about never has happen it is all just in your mind.... it is called paranoid delusional ....accept it it is a part of your life now.... and just remember it isnt as you think it is....

What's next? What right that we have isn't so important that we don't mind giving it up for security? Our guns, our religions? Beware of the kool aid.


and how have you given up anything??? for one space is concedered public property and you have no private right to it and informantion traveling from one point to another goes through space which is public property and not private... there fore you have no rights to privacy in space which is where your info goes into billions of little partials in which any receiver tuned to a certain frequency can receive.... so you have lost no rights because you never had any privacy rights to public space....
 
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Ignored post by outlaws93 posted Show Post
FriscoLady01
Experienced Member
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Folks don't bother with outlaw, I have tried to reason with him for months and he accuses me of hate. The word of the government to him is the word of God and it is going to be people who blindly accept what they are told by the goverment that are going to be the destruction of this country.

I give up on him.

I like Dr. Franklin will not give up liberty to have security so I will continue speak against the administration or any other administration that choses to ignore the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Outlaw if you want to know what rights we have lost why don't you read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, if I have to tell you what we have lost then - well maybe our nation is beyond hope!

Frisco
 
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Ignored post by FriscoLady01 posted Show Post
rayld2
Highly Experienced Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by FortesFortunaJuvat:
quote:
Originally posted by VietVet1stCavDoc:
quote:
Originally posted by outlaws93:
quote:
Originally posted by VietVet1stCavDoc:
Okay, lets give him this right to violate the constitution and totally invade our privacy. Guess what, next year he isn't president anymore and there will be a new sheriff in town. That sheriff may just be Obama. OMG are we going to give that right to a left wing almost commie, who is accused of being a hidden islamofacist. Do you think he might just start tapping all phone calls in and out of all Christian churches in our nation. After all, it is becoming down right illegal to be a Christian. This will make it real easy to round em all up and feed them to the lions.


too bad they have done no such thing... what you are talking about never has happen it is all just in your mind.... it is called paranoid delusional ....accept it it is a part of your life now.... and just remember it isnt as you think it is....

What's next? What right that we have isn't so important that we don't mind giving it up for security? Our guns, our religions? Beware of the kool aid.


Again, how does wiretapping hurt you?


* How does taking away hand guns hurt anyone?
* How does restricting the purchase and ownership of hunting weapons hurt anyone?
* How does making people take a test to be allowed to vote hurt anyone?
* How does allowing the government to force you to sell your property to a private business so they can make a profit hurt anyone. After all they paid you "market" value?
* How would being able to arrest someone with out a warrant hurt anyone? After all once YOU PROVE your innocent they would release you wouldn't they?
etc.
etc.
etc.
 
Posts: 13828 | Registered: Wed 02 July 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post IP
Ignored post by rayld2 posted Show Post
rm444
Where are the Carriers?
Picture of rm444
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quote:
After all once YOU PROVE your innocent they would release you wouldn't they?


They wont have to prove you guilty.So the logic follows that you'd have to prove yourself innocent.
Fat Fn chance sez I.


"Thank you, for your support." - Bartles & Jaymes
 
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Ignored post by rm444 posted Show Post
Aco275RGR
Member
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I remember when that wiretapping news first came out, I actually thought for a second about what I should say over the phone...

Is that America?....

Better yet, why don't we just implant electronic tracking chips on every US Citizen, no objections to this so long as were safe right? Roll Eyes
 
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