93--

Where was Phase IV planning at the start of WWII? Oh, that's right, there wasn't such a thing--they just planned of kickin ght crap out of the enemy and winning the war--that was their 1st priority---

Hey, GW.

quote:

Originally posted by goldenwings:
93--

Where was Phase IV planning at the start of WWII? Oh, that's right, there wasn't such a thing--they just planned of kickin ght crap out of the enemy and winning the war--that was their 1st priority---

Are you sure you served in the military? Are you seriously telling me that not doing any Phase IV planning was a good idea?

You're dehydrated. Drink some water.

93--

Sit here an d tell us that the US starting planning what to do after the war the day it was bombed in by Japan? Go ahead and tell us that in the 1st couple of years of WWII, American leaders were worrying about a plan of what to do after the war?

Pal, they were trying their best to get started and win the war----

GW, the loootenant gots his Infantry Officer's Handbook and thinks that he knows what's what.

Sure would be nice to hear the loooooootenant say just once that he'd like our guys to win, wouldn't it?

quote:

Originally posted by TomGustafson:

quote:

Originally posted by Julock:
Boy there is more quoting going on in here LOL.
As a Disabled Veteran 100% and Proud Father of a Marine I will be brief.
Support the Warior and not the war makes no sense to me. This is a just war with false reasoning for us being there. We need to stand up and simply tell the left to shut up and back our troops over there until the end. To pull out now would have an effect that will be even more distructive than the Nam Pull Out by Congress NOT the troops.
Our men and women fighting this war has been hog tied by Congress and those charged with crimes over there are getting aquitted fast. It is, after all, a war that Congress will not allow these Men and Women to fight like they need to. The left needs to stand up and support our troops and their mission. I could care less if they want to support the Politicians that are causing the problems over there but the Troops? It is an absloute must for all Americans to stand up and be heard.
If someone like Hillary Clinton gets into the Whitehouse our military will be the loosers in the long run. They will destroy our military like her Husband tried to do when he was there. Ok now I will shut up.
Ron Whaley
USN/Disabled EN-1

Well said Sir!

The thing that disturbs me is that people keep comparing this engagement to Vietnam. The two cannot be compared for one major reason - there was no successful operation to take Ho Chi Minh. But with Iraq...

Iraq is already a victory for that reason. Plus we have taken down many of their top officials who were directly involved in the use of chemical weapons and research into bio agents.

Thank You Sir but it is from the heart and a passion of mine to see our military treated as the heros they are and to be fully supported no matter what happens. No more Nams for America only victory period and it can be done here.

[/QUOTE]The thing that disturbs me is that people keep comparing this engagement to Vietnam. The two cannot be compared for one major reason - there was no successful operation to take Ho Chi Minh. But with Iraq...

Iraq is already a victory for that reason. Plus we have taken down many of their top officials who were directly involved in the use of chemical weapons and research into bio agents.[/QUOTE]

Where you are wrong is you are talking about the mission in both places. Where the compairson comes in is that Congress is trying to do the same thing to the military as they did during Nam. In that way this is exactly the same as Nam. Our Military has been hog tied and not allowed to do their job to the fullest. Rules of engagment have changed now and our military is required to play by rules that the bad guys won't play by. In doing so we loose more people where if we played by their rules well that would make us the same as them but they MUST be hunted down and killed not taken prisoners and turned loose in the future. What we need for a victory in Iraq is for their government to say they now have it and can handle their own problems. Once that is done we can then say Lets go home now. THEN and only THEN we will have a victory.

The missions were vastly different. We became involved in Nam in 50 as a result of the Truman Doctrine to help the French out. Bad move. By the time we were fully involved, France was gone. In the present case, we are there because we were attacked on our own soil. Rather than take the chance that Iraq would take advantage of our vulnerability, we corked them up by conducted a preemptive assault. We were justified because they had already violated virtually every stipulation of the mandates promulgated after the first Gulf War. The excuse that we went to war because of WMD was not as big a deal as is being portrayed. That reason was one of many and was just conveniently used to throw at the CinC.

But, as I said before, Ho Chi Minh remained in power after we retreated. Saddam Hussein is not even alive to continue. Yes Congress is trying to force us into a retreat. They are not succeeding. So for those reasons, the two issues are vastly different. Doc Commander.

quote:

But, as I said before, Ho Chi Minh remained in power after we retreated. Saddam Hussein is not even alive to continue. Yes Congress is trying to force us into a retreat.

First we did not retreat. Congress retreated and as for Ho Chi Minh Congress blocked any chance of our getting him by not allowing us to go north any futher than we did. We didn't loose any battle in Nam and Congress lost everything there.
If Congress gets its way now and they force a pull out before the job is done it will be the exact same as Nam all over again. And if people do not pay attention to the upcoming election and the wrong person gets the job our military is screwed that simple that straight forward.
Ron
USN/Disabled EN-1

Robert---

No, the LT will never be seen here wanting our guys to win--it ain't in him. He isn't on our side.

Ron, I do agree with you on all those points. I just wanted to be damn clear that we have already won the bulk of the operation because we have dismembered the ongoing problem. Saddam, Chemical Ali, his wife and many of their henchmen are no more. And that was not because Congress allowed, it is because we took the initiative to do something about it.

I do believe we have won already because our objectives have nearly all been met. The major one reamining is the constant haranguing with get from Ahab, the Arab - aka Usama ibn Laden. But we have not won the big tamale, just most of it. So I do agree with you on that. Congress must be replaced in one fashion or another.

quote:

I do believe we have won already because our objectives have nearly all been met. The major one reamining is the constant haranguing with get from Ahab, the Arab - aka Usama ibn Laden. But we have not won the big tamale, just most of it. So I do agree with you on that. Congress must be replaced in one fashion or another.

Yes we have but until we get the Iraqi Government to stand up and say they will take full control and stop playing games we need to stay there. Once they do that and we can leave with the knowldege we won this hands down. the orginial purpose of getting Saddam has been completed but Ben Laden has nothing to do with Iraq. In fact I believe he is dead in one of those caves somewhere and until they have him locked up I will always believe that he is dead. So here's to winning hands down and letting our men and women of the Military walk with their heads much taller than they can now. They are a fine bunch and have went through their own living hell over there. Also I agree every one in Congress or the Senate must be fired and start anew and see if the next bunch can get it right (which I doubt) Thanks Cdr for your support of our fine troops and for your service.
Ron Whaley
USN/Disabled EN-1
Tallahassee, FL

Ok I got in this one too far down this road WHO is the Lt you all are talking about here? LOL I guess I'm just slow these days hu?
Ron Whaley
USN/Disabled EN1
Tallahassee, FL

quote:

Originally posted by Julock:
Ok I got in this one too far down this road WHO is the Lt you all are talking about here? LOL I guess I'm just slow these days hu?
Ron Whaley
USN/Disabled EN1
Tallahassee, FL

Berlin93

quote:

Originally posted by SSgtRobertMorris:
GW, the loootenant gots his Infantry Officer's Handbook and thinks that he knows what's what.

Sure would be nice to hear the loooooootenant say just once that he'd like our guys to win, wouldn't it?

Hey son, I answered Golden Wings plaintive cry for edification. He said that he thought Phase IV planning for Iraq was a bad idea and he applauded Rumsfeld and the neo-cons for axing any officers who spoke out in favor of doing it.

I served him up some basic tactics and stratagery-izing and now he's got the vapors.

You another Rumsfeld-fan with the vapors about doing any planning before you occupy a country?

Berlin--You sir are a lying piece of crapola--

I don't believe you will find the words you say I said in any of my post.

I said that in WWII, FDR and the generals, never started our engagement against the Japanese and germans with thoughts of what we do after the war. I said, that there only interest at that time was to win the friggin war, plain and simple.

I also don't see any mention of Rumsfield in any of my post, yet you sit here and lie out your dishonorable ***. You sir don't rate to be seen as an officer with your friggin lying remarks,, plain and simple.

please cease the personal exchanges, and resume discussing the topic.

Thanks Opfor6 cause I had no clue LOL Ahhhh just another swabie on the down hill side of life LOL

Berlin93 are you the loooooootenant They are talking about? Just asking now ok?
Ron Whaley
USN/Disabled EN1

USAF--

It's kinda hard to not have personal exchanges when discussing topics especially when guys like the Lt lie about what people have said in their post.

Top, I didn't read the thread, Just responded to the alert.

By the way, I am glad you are home safe and sound.

I always found that before issuing orders, I needed to know the situation.

Thanks--glad to be home

quote:

Originally posted by Berlin93:

quote:

Originally posted by SSgtRobertMorris:
GW, the loootenant gots his Infantry Officer's Handbook and thinks that he knows what's what.

Sure would be nice to hear the loooooootenant say just once that he'd like our guys to win, wouldn't it?

Hey son, I answered Golden Wings plaintive cry for edification. He said that he thought Phase IV planning for Iraq was a bad idea and he applauded Rumsfeld and the neo-cons for axing any officers who spoke out in favor of doing it.

I served him up some basic tactics and stratagery-izing and now he's got the vapors.

You another Rumsfeld-fan with the vapors about doing any planning before you occupy a country?

Son?

Pup, never mind. Like talking to a bowling ball.

I'll worry about Iraq occupation planning once we wrap up the WWII occupation and Korea occupation and get the troops home from Germany, Japan, and Korea. Oh, and Kuwait and Saudi from Desert Storm. As far as track records, we have 40 to 50 years for those two.

quote:

Where was Phase IV planning at the start of WWII? Oh, that's right, there wasn't such a thing--they just planned of kickin ght crap out of the enemy and winning the war--that was their 1st priority---

Like comparing apples to elephants and it clearly does not work. The axis powers encircled the world, no one in the world was safe from the relentless march of oppression. SH on the other hand had a limpdick ragtag army that had already met its demise. Now how long did it take for the CiC to declare that we had "kicked crap" and that the "mission was accomplished"?

quote:

Originally posted by goldenwings:
USAF--

It's kinda hard to not have personal exchanges when discussing topics especially when guys like the Lt lie about what people have said in their post.

In the early days everyone, (Britain, USSR and USA), we were just holding on for our lives. No one started thinking about what we were going to do if we won till around the Tehran Conference in Nov - Dec 1943.

Though WW-2 was a titanic war, this war is in many ways is harder, and made harder yet by PC BS), and will last longer because our enemy will not meet us in the field.

Kind of hard to plan what we are going to do after each battle, like the battle of Iraq as opposed to the battle of Afghanistan, Philippines, etc. Too fluid.

Lets wait till the war is over.

opfor6--

You are right on target. These idiots with their thinking that prior to us winning the war, we should be thinking what to do about what we will do after the war.

The planning goes like this--plan a mission to accomplish a mission and the accomplish the mission--once that is done--then we have a debrief and see how things went and where we want to go then--we're still fighting the global war of terrorism of which Iraq is but one battle.

Neo---

have you had your *** over there to see what our troops are facing?

quote:

Originally posted by goldenwings:
opfor6--

You are right on target. These idiots with their thinking that prior to us winning the war, we should be thinking what to do about what we will do after the war.

The planning goes like this--plan a mission to accomplish a mission and the accomplish the mission--once that is done--then we have a debrief and see how things went and where we want to go then--we're still fighting the global war of terrorism of which Iraq is but one battle.

Hmmm why wouldnt we want to plan exactly what we're gonna do after "mission accomplished" ? We had a window in iraq in 2003 to fix things before the insurgency started and didnt because of poor planning.

Pocket---

Let me ask you a question--In sports, do you practice to win games or practice to have a victory party?

You have not served, have no experience in being a soldier much less what goes on in planning for combat operations---

The goal of combat operations is wining and accomplishing the mission first and foremost--

I would tell you to go serve and gain some insight, but from your post I see you believe you are already an expert on things that in reality, you haven't a clue about.