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Honored Member
Picture of CalDreaming02
Posted
... when it is not wanted or welcome "the correct/right thing" to do when staying in a war to rebuild an infrastructure and economy "the wrong thing" to do by the same group of social liberals? Couldn't this aid money be better spent here at home? Especially since it is not wanted "there" by a foreign hostile government? The offer made and rejected, why don't we just take care of our own and not futher imperil our Air Force troops and national "humanitarian" supplies? Just curious what makes forced aid "correct" juxtaposed to what amounts to desertion of a people wanting the American aid/support "wrong"?

quote:
1st big foreign aid flights finally let in by Myanmar junta 4 minutes ago



Myanmar's military regime allowed in the first major international aid shipment Thursday, but it snubbed a U.S. offer to help cyclone victims struggling to recover from a tragedy of unimaginable scale.

Five days after the storm, the junta continued to stall on visas for U.N. teams and other foreign aid workers anxious to deliver food, water and medicine to survivors amid fears the death toll could hit 100,000.

Among those stranded in Thailand were 10 members of the USAID Disaster Assistance Response Team. Air Force transport planes and helicopters packed with supplies also sat waiting for a greenlight.

"We are in a long line of nations who are ready, willing and able to help, but also, of course, in a long line of nations the Burmese don't trust," U.S. Ambassador Eric John told reporters in Thailand's capital, Bangkok.

"It's more than frustrating. It's a tragedy," he said. Each day of delay means "a lot more people suffering," he said.

Myanmar's isolationist regime issued an appeal for international assistance after winds of 120 mph and a storm surge up to 15 feet high pounded the Irrawaddy delta Saturday.

But the junta has been accused of dragging its feet despite emerging reports on entire villages submerged, bodies floating in salty water and children ripped from their parents arms.

"My children were crying all night. There is not enough food. There will be no food this evening," said Daw Thay, who took refuge in a monastery with her three children and her 99-year-old mother in a town 60 miles south of Yangon, the country's biggest city.

Daw Thay, 42, said monks were going without food so others could eat.

"We share what we have but there isn't enough. So they (the monks) give the food to the children and the old people first," she said.

In the swampy delta, a horrible stench rose from corpses and dead animals, bloated and floating in the water. Someone had written on a black asphalt road in Kongyangon village: "We are all in trouble. Please come help us." A few feet away, the desperate plea, "We're hungry."

Tired of waiting for help in Yangon, red-robed monks, other civilians and dozens of soldiers cleared piles of debris and toppled billboards from streets and cutting branches off uprooted trees.

"They've started doing the clean up themselves," Aye Chan Naing, chief editor of Democratic Voice of Burma, said as a light rain showered down. "They are volunteers."

Public transportation was slowly coming back to life in the city, with some trains operating, and cars formed lines three miles long to get rations of two gallons of gasoline.

The cyclone blew off the roof of opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi's dilapidated bungalow in Yangon and cut off its electricity, a neighbor said, speaking on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject. Suu Kyi, who received a Nobel Peace Prize for her pro-democracy activism, has been under house arrest for years.

More than 20,000 are known dead and tens of thousands more are listed as missing, and the U.N. estimates more than 1 million people are homeless in Myanmar, which also is known as Burma.

Four airplanes carrying high-energy biscuits, medicine and other supplies reached Yangon on Thursday, U.N. officials said. Two of four U.N. experts who flew in to assess the damage were turned back at the airport for unknown reasons, but the other two were allowed to enter, said John Holmes, the U.N. relief coordinator.

By rejecting the U.S. aid offer, the junta is refusing to take advantage of Washington's enormous ability to deliver aid quickly, which was evident during the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami that killed 230,000 people in a dozen nations.

The first foreign military aid following that disaster reached the hardest-hit nation, Indonesia, two days later. The most significant help came when U.S. helicopters from the USS Abraham Lincoln began flying relief missions to isolated communities along the Indonesian coast.

It was the biggest U.S. military operation in Southeast Asia since the Vietnam War.

With the Irrawaddy delta's roads washed out and the infrastructure in shambles, large swaths of the region are accessible only by air, something few other countries are equipped to handle as well as the United States.

Tim Costello, chief executive of World Vision Australia, said that "it's certainly the case that the Americans, as they showed in the tsunami, have extraordinary capacity."

The U.S. government, which has strongly criticized the junta's suppression of pro-democracy activists, will have to convince the generals that Washington has no political agenda, Costello said.

"Clearly we all know the political context there, and I think it's going to take a little bit more time for a breakthrough," he said.

Gordon Johndroe, President Bush's national security spokesman, said the U.S. was working to gain permission to enter Myanmar.

One American official, Ky Luu, director of the U.S. office of foreign disaster assistance, created a stir by saying one option being considered was air-dropping aid without permission. But Defense Secretary Robert Gates quickly said he couldn't imagine that happening.

Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej of Thailand offered to negotiate on Washington's behalf to persuade Myanmar's government to accept U.S. aid.

France is arguing that the U.N. has the power to intervene without the junta's approval to help civilians under a 2005 agreement that the world body has a "responsibility to protect" people when governments fail to do it. That agreement did not mention natural disasters.

French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner and British Foreign Secretary David Miliband asked Myanmar's junta to "lift all restrictions on the distribution of aid." Separately, Kouchner said France would make $3 million available to French aid groups operating in Myanmar.

The Association of Southeast Nations appealed to the international community to send relief supplies through Thailand.

"Please keep the help coming, keep the contributions coming, and if you have to, go to Thailand, park there and wait for redistribution from there," said ASEAN secretary-general Surin Pitsuwan.

The U.S. military sent more humanitarian supplies and equipment to a staging area in Thailand on Thursday. A C-17 transport plane brought in water and food, joining the two C-130s already in place, Air Force spokeswoman Megan Orton said at the Pentagon. Another C-130 loaded with supplies was on its way, she said.

The U.S. Navy also has three ships participating in an exercise in the Gulf of Thailand that could help in a relief effort, including an amphibious assault ship with 23 helicopters.

China, Myanmar's closest ally, urged the junta to work with the international community.

The London-based human rights group Amnesty International said some donors were delaying aid for fear it would be siphoned off to the army. The World Food Program's regional director, Anthony Banbury, indicated the U.N. had similar concerns.

"We will not just bring our supplies to an airport, dump it and take off," he said.

The U.N. refugee agency said it was assembling a truck convoy to take supplies from Thailand to Yangon, but it would take days to put the shipment together and up to two weeks to reach victims.

Myanmar's state media said Cyclone Nargis killed at least 22,997 people and left 42,019 missing, mostly in the Irrawaddy delta. Shari Villarosa, who heads the U.S. Embassy in Yangon, said the number of dead could eventually exceed 100,000 because of illnesses.

Asked about the death estimate, Costello of World Vision said hours after arriving in Yangon, "That extraordinary volume of rain, of wave, of wind just crushing everything, snapping everything in its wake, that death toll I think could be conceivable." He said some 60,000 people were unaccounted for.

The World Health Organization received reports of malaria outbreaks in the worst-affected area, and said fears of waterborne illnesses from dirty water and poor sanitation was a concern.

Myanmar's state television Thursday showed the prime minister, Lt. Gen. Thein Sein, distributing food packages to the sick and injured in the delta and soldiers dropping food over villages. The date of the distribution was not given.

Although most Yangon residents were preoccupied with trying to restore their lives, activists wrote fresh graffiti on overpasses, including "X" marks — a symbol for voting "no" in a referendum Saturday on a new constitution. Voting has been postponed until May 24 in Yangon, some outlying areas and parts of the delta.

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon called on the junta to postpone the referendum entirely and "focus instead on mobilizing all available resources and capacity for the emergency response efforts."



Copyright © 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.


Copyright © 2008 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080508/ap_on_re_as/myanmar...yIt5eAhtp_8AcBys0NUE


So make the best of this test, and don't ask why.
It's not a question, but a lesson learned in time.
It's something unpredictable, but in the end is right.
I hope you had the time of your life.
- Green Day
 
Posts: 4203 | Registered: Tue 09 December 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Honored Member
Picture of CalDreaming02
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Social liberals, I really want to know why and when leaving any country "high and dry" after it has been ravaged by the forces of destruction is a correct political stance. Surely there is at least one liberal out there who can say why the people of Iraq deserve less to rebuild when American aid is wanted there when another government totally hostile to the United States doesn't want the aid and it is insisted upon being provided, such as in Myanmar.


So make the best of this test, and don't ask why.
It's not a question, but a lesson learned in time.
It's something unpredictable, but in the end is right.
I hope you had the time of your life.
- Green Day
 
Posts: 4203 | Registered: Tue 09 December 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Picture of stillkit
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Because helping people in their hour of need is the right thing to do.

We have the power, the resources and the willingness to help. What's wrong with that?

It's not the government of Mynamar who needs us, it's the common Joe. Would you just leave them to their fate?
 
Posts: 4121 | Registered: Sun 25 November 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Cal.....we should turn about face and head home.

The people of Myanmar (Burma) have allowed their country to fall to a sick regime. Right down to allowing the name to be changed.

Quite frankly, we need to be putting the resources sent to a hostile country, to use here at home. Our resources are strapped and we have people in America in a bad way.

It is sad when people suffer, but people are suffering all over the world. Do we run to EVERYONE'S aid?

This right here speaks volumes...."Tired of waiting for help in Yangon, red-robed monks, other civilians and dozens of soldiers cleared piles of debris and toppled billboards from streets and cutting branches off uprooted trees". The people of Myanmar should have been doing this from the get go.

If Myanmar doesn't want our help...then screw them. Keep our money at home.
 
Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mon 15 January 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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My first thought was that the reason they would be declining our "help" is because we would probably send some GB medics to do the job. They know that those guys can be a great force multiplier and could possibly help the people overthrow the current regime. I could be WAY off. It was just a thought.
 
Posts: 1720 | Registered: Sun 27 May 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Picture of CalDreaming02
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quote:
Originally posted by stillkit:
Because helping people in their hour of need is the right thing to do.

We have the power, the resources and the willingness to help. What's wrong with that?

It's not the government of Mynamar who needs us, it's the common Joe. Would you just leave them to their fate?


So, again why would the people of Iraq with the devastation to their economy and physical infrastructure, in large part because of our presence there (not arguing for or against the merits of WHY we are there but rather just looking at the aftermath), deserving to have that assistance removed from them for a government that does not want ANY foreign aid in? Can anyone make a horse drink just simply because it has been led to the water?

quote:
US official: 1 shipment to be allowed to Myanmar By FOSTER KLUG, Associated Press Writer
34 minutes ago



The governing military junta in Myanmar has agreed to allow a single U.S. cargo aircraft to bring in relief supplies for victims of a devastating cyclone, the Bush administration said Friday.

White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said the United States welcomed the go-ahead to land a U.S. military C-130 in the country on Monday. He said he hopes this is the beginning of continued aid flowing into Myanmar from the United States and other nations and international relief agencies.

Earlier Friday, Ky Luu, director of the U.S. office of foreign disaster assistance, had said that skilled aid workers were being forced to sit on the sidelines as victims of last week's cyclone die. His comments reflect mounting frustration among the United States and other countries as they wait for permission from the military-led government to begin trying to help.

Said Johndroe: "We will continue to work with the government of Burma to allow other assistance. We hope that this is the beginning of a long line of assistance from the United States to Burma." Myanmar is also known as Burma.

Johndroe also said that while the U.S. still has limited leeway to help, "One flight is much better than no flights."

"They're going to need our help for a long time," Johndroe said. He spoke in Crawford, Texas, where President Bush's daughter, Jenna, will be wed on Saturday.

The breakthrough came after days of waiting on the U.S. side. It is not yet known what supplies will be included. U.S. aircraft have been positioned in Thailand and elsewhere nearby waiting for permission to transport supplies to the cyclone-devastated country.

The U.S. military has C-130 cargo aircraft and about a dozen helicopters in the region, ready to fly supplies into Myanmar. Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said Friday that the aircraft could reach Myanmar in a few hours.

In addition, U.S. Navy ships have begun moving from the Gulf of Thailand toward Myanmar to be available if needed.

Johndroe said he could not speak to one specific cause for the breakthrough, but added: "Clearly the junta has determined that the magnitude of this disaster requires additional assistance."

Myanmar has been under military rule since 1962. The current junta came to power after snuffing out a 1988 pro-democracy movement against the previous military dictatorship, killing at least 3,000 people in the process. The junta also violently crushed protests last year.

Luu had urged the generals to allow access to foreign aid teams, including a group of U.S. specialists waiting in Thailand; he said desperately needed supplies are piling up on airport tarmacs.

"This is a very vulnerable population, and a shock of this magnitude is going to take people right off the cliff," Luu told an audience at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a foreign affairs think tank in Washington.

He said the message to the junta is clear: If it allows U.S. officials in, "we will be able to make a difference."

"People are dying, and it's approaching a week," he said.

Myanmar's ruling military junta earlier seized two planeloads of critical aid sent by the U.N. The U.N. food program suspended help after the action, but later said it is sending two planes to Myanmar to help hungry and homeless survivors.

Officials have said that up to 1.9 million people are homeless, injured or threatened by disease and hunger, and only one out of 10 have received some kind of aid in the six days since the cyclone hit.

Tony Banbury, Asia director for the U.N. World Food Program, said by satellite from Thailand that the "big issue" is: What are the Myanmar authorities going to do? The WFP, he said, will keep working, but "I don't think we have much leverage with the authorities."

"Our hands are getting more and more tied," he said. "The situation is obviously desperate."

Sein Win, an exiled leader of Myanmar's opposition, said in an interview that the United States and other nations must more strongly pressure China, which is seen as having significant economic and political influence with Myanmar's generals.

"The world is not telling China to do what they should do ... to save people," Win said. He added that China has leverage over Myanmar; "the question is whether they are going to use it or not."



Copyright © 2008 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.


Copyright © 2008 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_myanmar


So make the best of this test, and don't ask why.
It's not a question, but a lesson learned in time.
It's something unpredictable, but in the end is right.
I hope you had the time of your life.
- Green Day
 
Posts: 4203 | Registered: Tue 09 December 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Honored Member
Picture of CalDreaming02
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quote:
Originally posted by IzzyBizzy:
Cal.....we should turn about face and head home.

The people of Myanmar (Burma) have allowed their country to fall to a sick regime. Right down to allowing the name to be changed.

Quite frankly, we need to be putting the resources sent to a hostile country, to use here at home. Our resources are strapped and we have people in America in a bad way.

It is sad when people suffer, but people are suffering all over the world. Do we run to EVERYONE'S aid?

This right here speaks volumes...."Tired of waiting for help in Yangon, red-robed monks, other civilians and dozens of soldiers cleared piles of debris and toppled billboards from streets and cutting branches off uprooted trees". The people of Myanmar should have been doing this from the get go.

If Myanmar doesn't want our help...then screw them. Keep our money at home.


I concur! But I want to hear/read why the social do-gooders on site think the Myanmarese/Burmese deserve our federal funds and infrastructure support MORE than the people of Iraq or even Afghani. What constitutes in liberal minds the deservedness of aid and what constitutes disqualification of same. If the troops ALL come home, a vacuum is created and what has been accomplished a total loss. So why would billions on rebuilding Myanmar be better spent - not allies nor fans of the U.S. - than in Iraq or Afghani where as much of the mission is rebuilding as it is re-securing. The Myanmarese have Red China to help them - so where is the massive Chinese humanitarian aid?


So make the best of this test, and don't ask why.
It's not a question, but a lesson learned in time.
It's something unpredictable, but in the end is right.
I hope you had the time of your life.
- Green Day
 
Posts: 4203 | Registered: Tue 09 December 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Picture of CalDreaming02
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quote:
quote:
Originally posted by stillkit:

We have the power, the resources and the willingness to help. What's wrong with that?


And we cut the funding to Iraq and Afghani or do we further extend our financial indebtedness to be "the saviors" of the world? The liberals will b*tch about the federal deficit - cuts have to be made somewhere or better yet NO NEW ONES added to it.

So which way is it to be, social liberals? Who is going to pay for this? Remember U.S. military transport teams are "the who" are delivering the goods/aid to Myanmar. The military does not fly for free - no matter what they told you to get you to raise your right hand "back in the day."


So make the best of this test, and don't ask why.
It's not a question, but a lesson learned in time.
It's something unpredictable, but in the end is right.
I hope you had the time of your life.
- Green Day
 
Posts: 4203 | Registered: Tue 09 December 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Member
Picture of RoofRatOrdie
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by stillkit:
Because helping people in their hour of need is the right thing to do.

We have the power, the resources and the willingness to help. What's wrong with that?

It's not the government of Mynamar who needs us, it's the common Joe. Would you just leave them to their fate?


Mynamar is a sovereign nation. If the legitimate govenment of that nation refuses aid or aid personnel... That's their call to make. I don't agree with what the Mynamar Junta is doing.. or has done; but short of invading the place and removing such government by force of arms... There's not much anybody or any organization can legally do. When the cholera hits... (and it will) perhaps the Junta will be weakened sufficiently for a counter-coup (Civil War) and restore Burma to it's former system of government.
 
Posts: 2097 | Registered: Fri 27 May 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Member
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by IzzyBizzy:
Cal.....we should turn about face and head home.

The people of Myanmar (Burma) have allowed their country to fall to a sick regime. Right down to allowing the name to be changed.

Quite frankly, we need to be putting the resources sent to a hostile country, to use here at home. Our resources are strapped and we have people in America in a bad way.

It is sad when people suffer, but people are suffering all over the world. Do we run to EVERYONE'S aid?

This right here speaks volumes...."Tired of waiting for help in Yangon, red-robed monks, other civilians and dozens of soldiers cleared piles of debris and toppled billboards from streets and cutting branches off uprooted trees". The people of Myanmar should have been doing this from the get go.

If Myanmar doesn't want our help...then screw them. Keep our money at home.


I hope for your sake that the next time you need a hand you find somebody that doesn't have your attitude.

I suspect the Burmese that have lost their homes, food and livelihoods will accept help from anywhere.

I have never been to Burma but i know the people of Pakistan, India and Bangladesh are generous and hospitable even when they have nothing. What a contrast with the attitude of some on here who have so much!
 
Posts: 2233 | Registered: Tue 22 June 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by CalDreaming02:
Social liberals, I really want to know why and when leaving any country "high and dry" after it has been ravaged by the forces of destruction is a correct political stance. Surely there is at least one liberal out there who can say why the people of Iraq deserve less to rebuild when American aid is wanted there when another government totally hostile to the United States doesn't want the aid and it is insisted upon being provided, such as in Myanmar.


COMMENT: Why would you classify this as a question for liberals? Many conservatives are asking the same.
 
Posts: 937 | Registered: Fri 29 February 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post


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Three cheers for IzzyBizzy....now BuuteryKnob get out your own checkbook
 
Posts: 744 | Registered: Sat 12 February 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Picture of stickshauler3
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quote:
Originally posted by ButteryKnob:
quote:
Originally posted by IzzyBizzy:
Cal.....we should turn about face and head home.

The people of Myanmar (Burma) have allowed their country to fall to a sick regime. Right down to allowing the name to be changed.

Quite frankly, we need to be putting the resources sent to a hostile country, to use here at home. Our resources are strapped and we have people in America in a bad way.

It is sad when people suffer, but people are suffering all over the world. Do we run to EVERYONE'S aid?

This right here speaks volumes...."Tired of waiting for help in Yangon, red-robed monks, other civilians and dozens of soldiers cleared piles of debris and toppled billboards from streets and cutting branches off uprooted trees". The people of Myanmar should have been doing this from the get go.

If Myanmar doesn't want our help...then screw them. Keep our money at home.


I hope for your sake that the next time you need a hand you find somebody that doesn't have your attitude.

I suspect the Burmese that have lost their homes, food and livelihoods will accept help from anywhere.

I have never been to Burma but i know the people of Pakistan, India and Bangladesh are generous and hospitable even when they have nothing. What a contrast with the attitude of some on here who have so much!
I agree with Izzy, to put it mildly, F---them. i would rather America be feared than loved to death! Mad
 
Posts: 2896 | Registered: Mon 28 February 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
I hope for your sake that the next time you need a hand you find somebody that doesn't have your attitude.


And....

quote:
What a contrast with the attitude of some on here who have so much!


New flash there Mr. Smarmy.....I am not filthy rich. I have worked for everything I have. Due to identity theft by an illegal, I live week to week. I pay ALL my own medical, food, electric, mortgage, etc. And now attorney fees.

Having said that, I still find time in THIS country to volunteer at our community services for people worse off than me. You know U.S. citizens who have paid taxes during the course of their life? I spent 5 hrs in front of a Wal Mart along with another veteran for "Poppy Day". Did you?

I believe charity begins at home and I am tired of people thinking we should take care of other countries first before our own. If YOU feel that way....like Fank said "get out your own checkbook". Mine stays in America.

Yes, what happened in Myanmar is a tragedy, but what happened in the SE in America just recently is also a tragedy. A tragedy we should be concerned about helping with right here at home. If saying this makes me selfish...then by all means color me selfish.

Stickshauler said it best....." i would rather America be feared than loved to death!"

Buttery...at the end of the day, I sleep just fine and I thank the good Lord for another reasonably good day and for what I do have.
 
Posts: 4287 | Registered: Mon 15 January 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by Fankhouser:
Three cheers for IzzyBizzy....now BuuteryKnob get out your own checkbook


Already have mate.
 
Posts: 2233 | Registered: Tue 22 June 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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quote:
Originally posted by IzzyBizzy:Buttery...at the end of the day, I sleep just fine and I thank the good Lord for another reasonably good day and for what I do have.


Ah, a religious person, good thing you spelt it out, I would never have guessed from what you had said.
 
Posts: 2233 | Registered: Tue 22 June 2004Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Picture of ScotsVisitor
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quote:
The people of Myanmar (Burma) have allowed their country to fall to a sick regime.


The ruling Junta don't "allow" any attempts to reform the regime - as recently as last autumn the police and troops violently put down protests led by the Buddhist priests - it was all over the news.

They even shot dead a foreign journalist in a main street.
 
Posts: 4318 | Registered: Tue 25 March 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Picture of stillkit
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Funny...I don't recall any outrage when other countries rushed to our aid after Katrina. I didn't see any of y'all rising up and demanding those foreign governments and people keep their money and supplies for their own people.

I don't recall anyone turning away the Mexican