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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Point-Counterpoint The 'Problem' of Illegal Aliens|
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Member |
Mmhmm.
Sure. Illegals lazy, dumb, etc, etc. Let me tell you about the illegals I know: 1)Works a full time job all year long as a janitor in a hospital. Come summertime he starts up his gardening business. Running 2 or 3 crews of abt 4 men apiece he does hard work on his off time. He busts his hump all summer long, working 80 hr weeks etc. and matches the income he makes from the year-long job in a couple of short weeks. Too busy for handouts. 2) Has been working in his field for 25 yrs. Currently runs a factory that employs 30 or so people, giving them living wages, benefits, etc. As a small business owner to make sure he looks after his folks and after his own self. Who can blame him? He works 80+ hr weeks. 3) Works two jobs, has been doing it for 10 yrs and currently owns the house he lives in and two rental properties. No handouts for him, he's been busting his chops for a good long time. 4) Hustles computer work from small businesses- networking stuff, website building, etc. From time to time hands out work to a couple of reliable guys he knows. No time for handouts. 5) Another business owner. Arrived in the country around the age of 25, went to school and got a good job. he quit to work out of his parents garage for a good 2 yrs and currently runs a small but booming web business that employs around 30 to 35 people. He went to an OK school but he currently has people from Yale, UCLA and USC working for him. Hats off. Again, too busy making money to beg for handouts. All of these people came to this country under questionably legal circumstances. Some jumped the border, some overstayed visas, etc. Some of them have resolved their citizenship situations, some of them are in the process. Some of them don't speak English too well, some of them you'd never guess they were from anywhere else. Who are these 'illegal aliens  ' you keep talking about? I know a lot of immigrants, legal and illegal, and I just don't recognize the people you like to vilify. I suspect you don't either. Lots of time I read your posts and think,' hmm. this person's talking out of their a_ss and it sure does stink." You can't honestly expect people to take you seriously. You want to sit here and disparage them and call them stupid and whatever but the truth is they haven't got the time to listen to you. They're too busy making things happen. I gotta be honest- I admire these men and women hugely! |
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----------------  Proud Member ----------------  |
I suspect you're race-baiting again.
Fish ain't biting. I'll pose a reframed argument: What would you say about a guy driving a 140,000 pound truck loaded with logs down the freeway--doing it for 20 years. Stopped by MCE, who find he has no Commercial Driver License. Never applied. They'll put him out of service, write a pile of tickets--including several for his boss, if he has one. A week later, he's pulled over again. Still no license. There's been no accident, no one's been physically harmed, and he's only stopped because Motor Carrier Enforcement can stop a commercial truck any time to inspect documentation and equipment. You okay with that hard-working citizen? A Gulf-War trained OR technician comes back stateside and opens his own practice. Pays his nurses well, hires a PA to write prescriptions, makes people well, then an audit of his practice's scripts turns up the inconvenient truth--he has no license to practice medicine. You okay with that healer carrying on? How about lawyers and accountants without proper professional licenses? How about a 22 year old running for Congress on a fraudulent birth certificate? You want to be selective with the law because you admire the work ethic, or are we a nation of laws that needs to do a better job of enforcing the ones we have on the books? I'm not a big fan of anyone who takes those sorts of shortcuts--whether it's licensing or immigration hurdles---because it's toooo haaaaarrrdd or it takes too long. I don't personally know many illegals,so I don't share the hatred that some have. I do know that if I were to find the guys that were standing around the Home Depot this morning on a jobsite this afternoon---I grow grass for a living---I'd be on the phone. That's not personal hatred, that's laws designed to protect my trade from cheap labor--and probably from the tax cheat that hired them. Now go a-way or I shall taunt you a second time! |
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"The day is wasted in which you learn nothing" |
I sure don't say or think that all illegals are dumb, lazy, etc. Obviously many are clever enough to get here and stay here and defraud US for their own ends. What I do say is that an illegal is simply that: illegal. En mas that is a problem. ALL those who aid, abed, support, defend or conceal these illegals are equally guilty of offence against America and our "rule of law". If you know these persons you list are illegal and you say/do nothing, you are also a part of that problem.
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Experienced Member |
Ok, Frank. I did know quite a few illegal immigrants when I lived in California. I also know MANY immigrants, many of whom I met while I was in the Navy (they are/were Sailors, as well. And, I still speak with many of them) and I work with quite a few in my current vocation. So, I am not speaking without insight.
I do agree that many immigrants, whether legal or illegal, are tremendous people. And, as is with my experience, the Mexican immigrants that I know are some of the hardest working people I have ever met. However, I still do believe in the rule of law. It is true that I never "turned in" any of the illegal immigrants that I knew. But, my take on it was that they will be discovered some day, especially if they decide to commit a crime (illegal employment constitutes a crime). For the most part, they were cool people, so I played the role of non-interventionist. As I said, I believe in the rule of law. And, in this case, I see illegal immigration as trespass. And, in the case of trespass, there should be restitution paid (fines/levies as directed by the judiciary) and the person should be evicted from the premises. Simple as that. Now, in the case of receiving the same benefits that Americans receive, I have to say that if you are here illegally (trespass), then you are not able to enter into a legally binding contract. Therefor, all of the benefits that the American people and the legal immigrants have entered into with public and private entities within the US are not applicable to you. They are null and void as applied to those engaging in the illegal trespass of the United States territory. The funny thing is that I was pretty open about my opinion with all of the immigrants that I knew, both legal and illegal. And, you know what, most of them agreed in principle. Obviously, some of their actions were not backed by their principles; cognitive dissidence is alive and well in the world. But, that is all too human and that is life. You live and hopefully you learn. This message has been edited. Last edited by: 10tenths, |
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Member |
How's that go?
Name and shame them, right? Duster6:I'll bet they all have a IQ of 66 and get welfare or Social Security too. sbird:sounds like some of you hate English speaking white people.some people been here 40+years and can't [or wont] speak English. John2x:Illegal darkies as you call them are no more than illegal unwanted parasites and not capabile of anything positive to any nation they park themselves in. If they were they would have chose to stay and straighten out thier own country instead of running. Yeah. But I'm the one who's race baiting. These people are spewing bile about people like my grandmother. Born in TX 80+ yrs ago, doesn't speak a word of English. So what? In her part of TX you don't need to speak anything but Spanish. You're A-ok. That's just the way that part of the world has always been. When I was a kid, my family took a trip to FL to visit her eldest daughter. We were ina grocery store parking lot when some jack*asses in a park drive by shouting "Go back to your own country!" My grandmother, not speaking a word of English smiles and waves. I was 10 yrs old and humiliated. This is her country. Always has been, always will be. She'd buried sons here, a husband. Hell, yeah I get torqued when I read this crap on these message boards. You give these idjits a free pass but you want to sit here and call me a race baiter. Whatever. |
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Member |
Any country needs a controllable immigration policy. The USA cannot accept all that what to come. So how do we manage who lives here and who becomes a citizen?
Out of 100 applicants what should each country's quota be and how should we choose? Those who illegally enter the country negatively affect the numbers of applicants from non-neighboring countries. Is a Mexican more worthing of citizenship than an German just because they live nextdoor? Illegal aliens are hired by employers who violate employment laws. Since illegals are tyically paid less than Americans, they lower wages and deny employment opportunities in local areas. Companies that hire illegals have a lower overhead costs that gives them an advantage over law abiding businesses. Companies managed by illegals are committing fraud by issuing invalid contracts, and working outside the law in warranty, tax, and liability regulations. Regardless of an individual's work ethic, immigration laws must be followed. Those who want to become American citizens must wait in line and wait their turn. It takes many years and thousands of dollars to become naturalized. It is not right for one to skip what millions have rightly done over the past 200+ years. |
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---------------- Proud Member ---------------- |
I don't share your base of experience growing up, so I won't pretend to empathize, but... Rest assured. Read my posts. Racists, race baiters, liars, panic-mongers, and people who aren't good at math don't like me. You see a TOS violation, click the little yellow triangle. Stand your ground, but trying to settle it personally will shorten your stay here, or at least interrupt it. If the mods don't see it your way, slather on some more Skin-be-Thick, or pick a forum that's not about confrontation and disagreement over emotionally charged issues. Here. Use some of mine...  Now go a-way or I shall taunt you a second time! |
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Member |
The 3 Legal Ways to immigrate to America:
(question: how many migrant farm workers have $1 million laying around. If you did have $1 million why would you come to the US? You can live much better abroad on a measly million than anywhere here.) How messed up does your country of origin have to be for you to go to a place where you don't know anyone and don't speak the language? You don't have any papers. People look at you and hate you because you're brown. You live like a rat, you earn peanuts and live off scraps. Ever ride a bus at 2 o'clock in the morning? I guarantee it ain't no white people on the bus. It's someone's grandma who's cleaning offices late at night. It's someone's dad who's taking the bus home from his valet job at that fancy restaurant. You want to sit here and blame these people for all your problems. Get over yourself. You're your own problem. Face it. If you can't compete with someone who doesn't have the language, doesn't have a SS number, or even a HS education then maybe you're the problem. Go ahead. Collect your welfare bennies and cash your disability checks. Illegal aliens are supporting you but they don't mind. They're too busy working. Mmm. Better watch out for those dark eyed kids though. They've got long memories. |
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Member |
 Damn well said! |
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Experienced Member |
In reference to Frank's last comment:
The problems that people have within their sovereign territory is not my concern. Sure, I feel bad for them and wish they could live better, but it is not my place to get involved; especially politically. Not all people are worthy of entry, they must have a clean bill of health, a clean record and a necessary skill. You may not know this, but I was denied a work visa for Australia. My purpose of wanting to work in Australia is that it would dramatically improve my quality of life and it would have saved my business (which is now defunct). But, I understand the Australian people's reasoning, I was not going to serve a necessity to the people of that territory. So, if I am reading your comments correctly, I should break the law and enter Australia illegally and do business illegally within Australia's borders, thus perpetrating a crime against the people of Australia. I am sorry, but that logic just does not wash with me. Otherwise, I would be writing you from Sydney. |
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Member |
Friscolady: you are an ILLEGAL ALIEN you will be shot on sight. And you won't come back again!
Problem solved! Another idjit. And you're missing the point. If these illegal aliens had stayed at home, blah, blah, blah this country would've lost out on at least 4 thriving small businesses. By my count they employ round about 100 people. Between them they probably contribute about a million or so dollars to the GDP. Between business taxes, bond premiums, licensing, etc. They probly add a pretty hefty chunk to local coffers. And these are just people I know- personally, as friends. Who knows how many immigrant owned businesses are out there busting their humps to make their daily bread. Idjits want to sit here and cry because some non-English speaking darkie was smart enough to get off their rumps and get to work. They oughtta be embarrassed for themselves. They oughtta look at these people and say, "Damn. He can make it. Maybe I can too." |
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---------------- Proud Member ---------------- |
See, now you've gone a step further (farther?) than just opening a thread purely to grind a personal axe...the insults and the thinly varnished threat mean you'll not be taken seriously at all by some, and far too seriously by others. You really ought to take a breath and tone it down, Frank. Your approach is counter-productive. Now go a-way or I shall taunt you a second time! |
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Member |
lol.
Seems to me like idjits like Frisco, Duster, et al. should be developing thick skins, not me. I've got another friend. This one doesn't own his own company but he works for a fast food company. It's not much of a job but it's a job. He doesn't get paid much but its enough for him live on (extremely cheaply) and still have money to send home. I ask him, "How do you find a job. You don't have any papers. I don't get it." He says, "Easy. I got to a park near downtown and I give someone $50 and I get a greencard with fake numbers. I give it to my boss." And I tell him, "That can't possibly work. He must know its fake." And he says, "Sure, they know its fake. But they have no choice. The people with papers who come and apply for a job are nothing but trouble. They think they're too good to clean the tables. They don't bother showing up to work their schedule. They're on drugs; they steal from the cash register. It's a headache. The people I work for would rather hire a hundred illegal Mexicans than another lazy American who can't be bothered to actually work. They know that we'll show up and we'll work hard because we've got no choice. We don't get food stamps; we don't get workers comp. If we miss a day of work we don't get paid." It's easy to hate them, I guess. Americans come in demanding applications, looking like they just got out of bed. Don't bother combing their hair. They get mad and blame him because they can't get a job. He doesn't have anything to do with the hiring, he just pours the drinks. They get mad and throw things around, making a mess and yell at him. He just smiles and says "Thank you." What business owner in their right mind is going to hire an American who acts like trash over a Mexican who shows up and does the job? |
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Experienced Member |
Darn, you really do have an axe to grind here. Ok, I am moving on until I see some semblance of purposeful dialog. Adiós, Señor Frank A. Valdez.
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Member |
H-ell yeah I have an ax to grind.
When idjit gas bags take to talking about my Grandmother it don't go down easy. I come out swinging.  |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Methinks he doth protest too much.... Damn, I'm in one of my Shakespearean moods, aren't I....
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Experienced Member |
Well, hey. I don't believe I was in that discussion. Nor have I ever said anything in regard to your grandmother. However, I have expressed my principled beliefs on this matter. That is all. And, I do not see my opinions as disparaging, nor are they immoral. On the contrary, I believe that they are quite logical and have a strong foundation in sound principles. |
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Experienced Member |
Yeah, with "doth" and "methinks", I would say so. Either that or you are preparing your mind and manner for the next 'Medieval Times Festival' or 'Renaissance Faire'.  |
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Experienced Member |
I wonder how British actor Anthony Hopkins got US citizenship ? Bet he didn't wait 10 years for it. He said it was a convenience move because he was living and working so much in the States. |
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ole frank ,what about the millions from non spaingrist speaking countries waiting for entry?all dat money sent home the last 50 years or so should of improved the old muther country. learn English.this is America;not mexco .
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Highly Experienced Member |
Scot, there are some HUGE problems with our legal immigration policies far outside our problems with illegal immigrants. Why do Cubans who reach our shores get to stay, but Haitians get carted back? |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Why is it that when the talk is about illegal immigrants, only Mexico is ever mentioned? Close to 50% of our illegal population comes from countries other than Mexico.
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o frankie,if dey so smart,hard working,etc.why aint they fixed there own country?they been sneaking across for decades.everone hate America but sure wants to live here.they didnt care about there own country,why care bout USA.so Cal;Ariz;NMex;and TEXAS have no need to speak English?we dont forget either.lol dont wake a sleeping giant.lol
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frank do you hate all English speaking people?black,oriential,native Americans,TEXANS?
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probaly cause half or more come from mexco?
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key werd IS IS IS illeagal.
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Member |
One who is concerned about following the law. One who doesn't wish to enable illegal behavior. In my experience, frequently one who doesn't actually have to live in a town that's packed full of illegal immigrants; feels the wonderful diversity is a great thing for other people to have. |
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maybe because the other 50% of illegals dont try to force there agenda down our throats,or learn there language.key word;Illegal.S.F. |
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Watching Husker Football is the most fun you can have with your clothes on |
The TOPIC of the thread explains itself. The 'Problem' of ILLEGAL Aliens. Please note the word ILLEGAL. Want to come here, great, glad to have ya, understand the immigration to the US! Wanna do it illegally? GET OUT!
If you turn a "blind eye" to this break in the law, where is the line drawn? |
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Experienced Member |
I can't say I could have said it better GI! Thank You! I think it is time we bring you guys home and put you on the borders to stop this invasion. However, with the goofballs in Washington that will never happen - no matter which political party is in power. Frisco |
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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Point-Counterpoint The 'Problem' of Illegal Aliens
