quote:

In an abstract way, I would say that it isn't. His speech is anti-institutional elitism. There is no denying that our country has been governed by an elite and for most of our history, that elite has been White, male, and Christian. Why this speech is perceived as being racist is because it strikes, very uncomfortably, at this de facto aristocratic establishment. This same establishment that perceives their way as being the only way that any culture should exist; if a culture went against their norms and ideals then that cultured must be destroyed and the survivors forcibly assimilated into the oppresser's culture. Now, because of this willfully blind elitist mentality, we are now experiencing a global back lash.

This is all I'm asking. Some still apparently see racism as his motivator and I just do not. Yes, he does question the government and their actions, but don't we all at times?

What I see from the responses is that a lot of you associate the government with White people. I don't because if you pay attention, the powers that be don't give a damn about any of us. We the people are not the government. We elect certain people and for the most part, they do what the hell they want rather we agree or not.

To the issue of what I asked, there is not one part of that sermon(s) that signifies that the Rev hates White people or is racist. He questions our government and so do I, and I believe many of you do as well.

Tomcat:

quote:

I notice you only bring up his anti american sermons and ask where the racist parts are but do not bring up the sermons where he said things like the "Rich White folk who run everything" or how he will "Let me tell you what is going on in white America, US of KKK A"

I ask of you to present this sermon/speech so that I can evaluate what you say and how it applies hatred toward our White Brotheren. If he did say anything regarding the hateful element of the White society and that does not decribe you, then what is the beef? You do admit there is such a hateful element do you not? That hateful element does not paint all White people with the same broad brush does it?

During the days of slavery there were Whites who had nothing to do with the practice and even fought against it. Some risked their lives to help slaves escape that abomination. So there is a separation there and there is a separation today.

If you are a good person with good intentions, you also should be critical of the way some people act even if they are of your race. I know that I am of people of my race who do not represent the ideals of what a society should be. A thug is a thug rather they are Black, White, Red, Yellow or whathaveyou and I stand against them all. Nothing racist about that. Some people are just no good. PERIOD!

But again, I see that a lot of you are associating the government with White people. No my people, the government is an entity of it's own and for the most part, do not represent the will of the people any longer.

quote:

MODS This thread is about Jeremiah Wright and hence it is tied to the election and Barack Obama. It needs to go where it belongs.

Nothing whatsoever has been said regarding the election. This is about perceptions of a man's statements pure and simple.

I would like for we Americans to see the light and start to work together for a better country. No one is going anywhere neither Whites nor Blacks and we need to put all the BS aside and learn that we must live together for a common goal.

quote:

Originally posted by AngelHeart:
The Native Alaskans that I know are gentle, loving and don't hold grudges. Some would give you the shirt off their backs if you needed it.

I, too, would give you the shirt off of my back. But only if your back isn't hairy.

quote:

Originally posted by MightyB:
Tomcat:

quote:

I notice you only bring up his anti american sermons and ask where the racist parts are but do not bring up the sermons where he said things like the "Rich White folk who run everything" or how he will "Let me tell you what is going on in white America, US of KKK A"

I ask of you to present this sermon/speech so that I can evaluate what you say and how it applies hatred toward our White Brotheren. If he did say anything regarding the hateful element of the White society and that does not decribe you, then what is the beef? You do admit there is such a hateful element do you not? That hateful element does not paint all White people with the same broad brush does it?

During the days of slavery there were Whites who had nothing to do with the practice and even fought against it. Some risked their lives to help slaves escape that abomination. So there is a separation there and there is a separation today.

If you are a good person with good intentions, you also should be critical of the way some people act even if they are of your race. I know that I am of people of my race who do not represent the ideals of what a society should be. A thug is a thug rather they are Black, White, Red, Yellow or whathaveyou and I stand against them all. Nothing racist about that. Some people are just no good. PERIOD!

But again, I see that a lot of you are associating the government with White people. No my people, the government is an entity of it's own and for the most part, do not represent the will of the people any longer.

Well the statement about White America the US KKK of A to me says all whites are KKK. If I look again, I look again I could probably find the video of Rev Wright saying this, but I just lifted it off one of my earlier posts this time. You could probably find it fairly quickly if you look on youtube.

It was not me associating white people with Government, it was Rev Wright, because he says it is the "rich white folk who run everything"

Yes I agree that there are good and bad in every group, but when you paint an entire group with the brush based on what some did or do, it is not OK.

I have had good and bad relations with blacks, but would you be ok with me talking about about what is going on in Black America based on the thug element?

I agree that there are thugs of every color, there are good people of every color. i do not let a person's skin color count on what I think about someone. I will not say I do not prejudge, but that is usually based on appearance and style. When I see someone with an offkilter cap, pants half down, pimpwalkin down the street (regardless of color) I do have assumptions about that person.

The man divides America up into black people and white people, lumping people together by nothing more than their skin color, then speaks on old racial stereotypes.

But he is careful with his words. What gets me more is his willingness to not distinguish between victim and aggressor, holding the actions of those in defense as the same of those attacking. He also exaggerates facts terribly when it suits his world image of minority victims and majority aggressors.

If the U.S. and its white majority was really as bad as he says, the Civil Rights movement would have never succeeded and homosexuals wouldn't be politically active as a group, they would be dead, like they are in many, much less tolerant nations of the world.

quote:

Originally posted by FortesFortunaJuvat:
Rev Wright is a racist. I've heard PLENTY of older black people feel and think the way he does and trust me... they all dislike whites

You can sugar coat it all you want but I am telling you the man doesn't like white people

FFJ, I'm SURE YOU'RE AN EXPERT ON "PLENTY OF OLDER BLACK PEOPLE... ". We trust you. Sure.

But this thread is about Wright. Is there something Wright said that led you to believe he's racist? Or do you just feel he's racist because he grew up when little black girls and civil rights workers were being murdered and white cops were setting dogs on civil rights marchers and white firemen were blasting them with hoses?

Or did he actually say something you found racist? Share it with us. Thanks.

Ouch....that K9 looks like he's about to rip open that guys abdomin, glad we have so many experts around that can tell us their first hand experience of such persecution....

must be nice to be given a 1.6 million dollar house tied with a 10 million dollar line of credit. especially in an all white gated community. Do ya think he would buy a home in Chicago's black area?

quote:

Originally posted by Berlin93:

quote:

Originally posted by FortesFortunaJuvat:
Rev Wright is a racist. I've heard PLENTY of older black people feel and think the way he does and trust me... they all dislike whites

You can sugar coat it all you want but I am telling you the man doesn't like white people

FFJ, I'm SURE YOU'RE AN EXPERT ON "PLENTY OF OLDER BLACK PEOPLE... ". We trust you. Sure.

But this thread is about Wright. Is there something Wright said that led you to believe he's racist? Or do you just feel he's racist because he grew up when little black girls and civil rights workers were being murdered and white cops were setting dogs on civil rights marchers and white firemen were blasting them with hoses?

Or did he actually say something you found racist? Share it with us. Thanks.

Yeah he said white people created HIV to kill black people. Let me put it this way,,,, Black people sell crack because they want to kill white people,, that sound racist? How bout this, white people are so evil and want to kill black people that they would research, develope and release HIV into the world solely for the destruction of black people. That sound racist to you? Oh wait,, your so right there was slavery over a hundred years ago, my bad I forgot about that so its ok to demonize white people even though all of the white people that were alive and commited such hatefulness are dead. Oh and how could I forget the white people during the 60's thats right lets see if they were 18 in 1960 that would put em at around 66 years old, hmm and alot more dead by now but hey lets go back to that time because it happend right? So are we still afraid of old decreped white people now? Lets see ,, hmm that was 12 years before I was born but hey I gotta take responsibility for my part right,,,, um could you please tell me what my part was? If I gotta feel guilty and sorry for something I did not do, I sure would like to know what it is.
Lets see if i make a statement like,, oo I dont know, Im proud of being white and Im proud of the accomplishments of the white race I bet it wouldnt take you half a mili second to label, tar and feather me a racist but this screaming lunitic(wright) whom btw is no reverend, preacher, pastor, but just a hate mongorer can say whatever hits the tip of his tongue. Please!

If you dont see the racism in this man then one of two things is going on here, one you have no comprehension of reality, or two you chose to wear wax in your ears.


BTW when Wright called Hannity stupid, which book in the bible you think he took that line from? Yeah hes a mighty fine example of a Christian man!

quote:

Originally posted by MightyB:

quote:

MODS This thread is about Jeremiah Wright and hence it is tied to the election and Barack Obama. It needs to go where it belongs.

Nothing whatsoever has been said regarding the election. This is about perceptions of a man's statements pure and simple.

I would like for we Americans to see the light and start to work together for a better country. No one is going anywhere neither Whites nor Blacks and we need to put all the BS aside and learn that we must live together for a common goal.

I stand my ground!

ELECTION THREAD.

Make it go away.

Defending Wright's America HATE SPEECH is defending The pope of hope's association with him.

And I do love the idea of us all getting along but never while I still live will I adopt marxism or marxism adjusted "democracy" as my government.

When I brought up the William Ayers weather underground story you referred to it as "throwing schit at the wall and see if it sticks." This defense of the spiteful, hateful Wright is nothing more than throwing schit in the water and see if it floats.

We will never move ahead as long as Wright spews his vitriol.

quote:

MODS This thread is about Jeremiah Wright and hence it is tied to the election and Barack Obama. It needs to go where it belongs.

Fair and Balanced...

You are the ONLY one (so far) that brought up Obama. This is ABOUT Wright the racist.

quote:

Are you an enrolled member of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma? The United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee? Or, the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians? Or, even one of the state recognized tribes?

If no, then you are not Cherokee.

Are you an enrolled member of the Blackfeet Nation? The Blood Nation? The Siksika? The Blackfoot Nation of Alberta? Or, even the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe?

If not, then you are not Blackfoot.

Not true. One does not have to belong to a tribe or nation to be an Indian. Lack of registration or membership in an organized group does not EXCLUDE genetic ethnicity.

quote:

Originally posted by jasu2:

quote:

Originally posted by Berlin93:

quote:

Originally posted by FortesFortunaJuvat:
Rev Wright is a racist. I've heard PLENTY of older black people feel and think the way he does and trust me... they all dislike whites

You can sugar coat it all you want but I am telling you the man doesn't like white people

FFJ, I'm SURE YOU'RE AN EXPERT ON "PLENTY OF OLDER BLACK PEOPLE... ". We trust you. Sure.

But this thread is about Wright. Is there something Wright said that led you to believe he's racist? Or do you just feel he's racist because he grew up when little black girls and civil rights workers were being murdered and white cops were setting dogs on civil rights marchers and white firemen were blasting them with hoses?

Or did he actually say something you found racist? Share it with us. Thanks.

Yeah he said white people created HIV to kill black people. Let me put it this way,,,, Black people sell crack because they want to kill white people,, that sound racist? How bout this, white people are so evil and want to kill black people that they would research, develope and release HIV into the world solely for the destruction of black people. That sound racist to you? Oh wait,, your so right there was slavery over a hundred years ago, my bad I forgot about that so its ok to demonize white people even though all of the white people that were alive and commited such hatefulness are dead. Oh and how could I forget the white people during the 60's thats right lets see if they were 18 in 1960 that would put em at around 66 years old, hmm and alot more dead by now but hey lets go back to that time because it happend right? So are we still afraid of old decreped white people now? Lets see ,, hmm that was 12 years before I was born but hey I gotta take responsibility for my part right,,,, um could you please tell me what my part was? If I gotta feel guilty and sorry for something I did not do, I sure would like to know what it is.
Lets see if i make a statement like,, oo I dont know, Im proud of being white and Im proud of the accomplishments of the white race I bet it wouldnt take you half a mili second to label, tar and feather me a racist but this screaming lunitic(wright) whom btw is no reverend, preacher, pastor, but just a hate mongorer can say whatever hits the tip of his tongue. Please!

If you dont see the racism in this man then one of two things is going on here, one you have no comprehension of reality, or two you chose to wear wax in your ears.


BTW when Wright called Hannity stupid, which book in the bible you think he took that line from? Yeah hes a mighty fine example of a Christian man!

And there it is.

berlin--- a racist is a racist no matter the circumstances in which his racism was birthed

quote:

Originally posted by Aco275RGR:
Ouch....that K9 looks like he's about to rip open that guys abdomin, glad we have so many experts around that can tell us their first hand experience of such persecution....

ahh hell man i have and a lot of my squatter friends also have been subject to police brutality many of times... hell in new orleans they use to have this shed right there in the 9th ward they use to take us squatters to and tie up by the wrists and beat the hell out of all of the time... both blacks and whites equally were beaten till passed out...

quote:

Originally posted by IzzyBizzy:

quote:

Are you an enrolled member of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma? The United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee? Or, the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians? Or, even one of the state recognized tribes?

If no, then you are not Cherokee.

Are you an enrolled member of the Blackfeet Nation? The Blood Nation? The Siksika? The Blackfoot Nation of Alberta? Or, even the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe?

If not, then you are not Blackfoot.

Not true. One does not have to belong to a tribe or nation to be an Indian. Lack of registration or membership in an organized group does not EXCLUDE genetic ethnicity.

Where did I say that this person wasn't Indian? Re-read my post and do so slowly and rationally. I asked if they were a member of a federally recognized tribe/nation of Cherokee or Blackfeet. If they are not a recognized member of a tribal group then they can not claim to be of that tribe; i.e., if you ain't a member of a Cherokee tribe then you ain't Cherokee. Simple concept, no?

Secondly, if they claim to be Indian then they better possess some form of legitimate documentation otherwise if they applied for a Federal or State job with Indian preference, they will have to submit documentation supporting their claims; if they want to sell artwork or label themselves as an Indian artist then they better have documentation. Claims alone, as established by Federal laws, are not enough to be recognized racially as Indian.

quote:

Originally posted by jasu2:
Yeah he said white people created HIV to kill black people. Let me put it this way,,,, Black people sell crack because they want to kill white people,, that sound racist? How bout this, white people are so evil and want to kill black people that they would research, develope and release HIV into the world solely for the destruction of black people. That sound racist to you?
...


BTW when Wright called Hannity stupid, which book in the bible you think he took that line from? Yeah hes a mighty fine example of a Christian man!

Calling Hannity "stupid" doesn't make you a racist. It just means that you're not blind.

Wright claimed that "white people created HIV to kill black people"? Link to the quote, please. let's debate what he really said.

Did Wright claim that the US government searched out hundreds of blacks with undiagnosed syphilis and observed them for decades without treating them or telling them they were dieing of syphilis? Did he claim that the white officials said, "the men's status did not warrant ethical debate. They were subjects, not patients; clinical material, not sick people."

Man. That would be crazy talk. If the United States government had done that to sick Norwegian Americans, I'd be pizzed. I'd be angry. I'd be irrationally angry at the US government. Wouldn't you, jasu? Unless you feel that "Negroes" are "clinical material, not sick people". Do you?

What about you, FFJ? You say you know how "PLENTY of older black people feel". Do they mistrust the US government? Do they feel that the US government thinks black people are "clinical material"?

quote:

Originally posted by Berlin93:

What about you, FFJ? You say you know how "PLENTY of older black people feel". Do they mistrust the US government? Do they feel that the US government thinks black people are "clinical material"?

Difference between mistrust and racism Berline. You can have a reason to mistrust. There's no reason to be a racist

quote:

Originally posted by CuriousGeorgetta:

quote:

Originally posted by AngelHeart:
The Native Alaskans that I know are gentle, loving and don't hold grudges. Some would give you the shirt off their backs if you needed it.

I, too, would give you the shirt off of my back. But only if your back isn't hairy.

I would be a good Democrat and give someone the shirt off your back, too.

quote:

Originally posted by SSgtRobertMorris:

quote:

Originally posted by CuriousGeorgetta:

quote:

Originally posted by AngelHeart:
The Native Alaskans that I know are gentle, loving and don't hold grudges. Some would give you the shirt off their backs if you needed it.

I, too, would give you the shirt off of my back. But only if your back isn't hairy.

I would be a good Democrat and give someone the shirt off your back, too.

quote:

Originally posted by SSgtRobertMorris:

quote:

Originally posted by CuriousGeorgetta:

quote:

Originally posted by AngelHeart:
The Native Alaskans that I know are gentle, loving and don't hold grudges. Some would give you the shirt off their backs if you needed it.

I, too, would give you the shirt off of my back. But only if your back isn't hairy.

I would be a good Democrat and give someone the shirt off your back, too.

Nope. That's a "good Bush big-government Republican". They've borrowed more money from China, leaving it to our kids to pay back, than all the other previous administrations put together.

quote:

Originally posted by FortesFortunaJuvat:

quote:

Originally posted by Berlin93:

What about you, FFJ? You say you know how "PLENTY of older black people feel". Do they mistrust the US government? Do they feel that the US government thinks black people are "clinical material"?

Difference between mistrust and racism Berline. You can have a reason to mistrust. There's no reason to be a racist

FFJ, bud, you stated you know how "PLENTY of older black people feel" -- do many of them feel the way Reverend Wright does? Do they feel that the US government feels that black people are "clinical material"?

I guess we can't expect you to link to quotes from these "older black people" but we do expect you to link to quotes from Reverend Wright.

BTW, of the 400 black people with untreated syph in the US Public Health Service's study, by 1972, twenty-eight died directly of syphilis, 100 were dead of related complications, 40 of their wives had been infected, and 19 of their children had been born with congenital syphilis.

Do you think that's cause for some irrational mistrust of the United States government?

quote:

Yeah he said white people created HIV to kill black people. Let me put it this way,,,, Black people sell crack because they want to kill white people,, that sound racist? How bout this, white people are so evil and want to kill black people that they would research, develope and release HIV into the world solely for the destruction of black people.

There you go again. The man said "the government". He did not say White people in the government. The Tuskegee Experiment for instance had Black doctors and nurses who were on the government's payroll. They in turn was the government.

So if I get you and some others correctly, if someone questions or rants against the government, they are somehow questioning and ranting against White folks? Is that how you see it?

And here I am asking someone again to show me what you are stating from the actual script of a Rev Wright sermon or speech. Let me see the U.S. of KKK statement. I don't say it doesn't exist, I just ask that you present it for the sake of your arguement.

Certain things he stated have a point of fact like it or not. I don't consider the CIA as being White folks. They are a government agency that really don't give a damn about any of us White/Black or whatever. The debate regarding them bringing crack to South Central LA is being discussed right now in Federal Court, 9th Circuit Court of Appeals. They have stated that the accusation has been shown to have merit. Are they racist?

The HIV theory has been around for a long time and there are many in and out of the scientific community who believe this virus was created in a lab. Check it out and make your own judgement. So due to the Tuskegee Experiment, is it really a far stretch to wonder if the government also did this?

If you dare to research government experiments over the years done to American citizens, you may just have doubts yourself. 1960s, the government did a LSD experiment in the Bay area. They put it in the water coolers of office buildings to observe the reactions of the "subjects". This is part of the FOIA and you can verify it if you want. Start with this one:

http://www.mindhacks.com/blog/2006/02/secret_lsd_tests_now.html

So when one questions activities such as this, are they then deemed anti-American? Sure can't be considered racist.

And one more thing to consider. The 9/11 attack was blamed on the US precence in the ME.
That is what OBL stated. We have got to quit blaming one another when we don't have chit to do with what our government does. As your Vice President so plainly stated, "We don't have policies based on what people think." "And if you don't agree, SO".

Keep talking racism and anit-Americanism if you so wish, or do some homework and educate yourself on what's really going on within the secret confines of our government.

quote:

white people created HIV to kill black people

Mighty...he associates the government with white America. You can hear it in his voice. The only reason you can't see it or hear it is because you don't want to. Listen to the video0 again.

Video

quote:

Originally posted by AngelHeart:

quote:

white people created HIV to kill black people

Mighty...he associates the government with white America. You can hear it in his voice. The only reason you can't see it or hear it is because you don't want to. Listen to the video0 again.

Video

"the government" IS white america.

quote:

"the government" IS white america.

Those in the highest places in our gov't may be "white", but they are not representative of "white people".

Are you really that naive?

Here is one video where he discusses how "We have a country and a culture that is controlled by, and run by, rich white people" So yes often he only talks about our government or about America, but when he does he is talking about the "rich white folk who run everything"

Reverend Wright has an illogical mistrust of the United States government. He said some wrongheaded stuff nobody here agrees with.

But if the government in the 1960s had sicced policed dogs and turned fire hoses on Norwegian Americans. If they had run a public health study up until 1972 where hundreds of Norwegian Americans with syphilis were allowed to go untreated and to infect their wives and unborn children... I'd probably be pretty illogical about the government, too.

quote:

"the government" IS white america.

That's crazy talk! There are plenty of minorities in high level positions within our government. Your statement sounds racist.

When speaking of the powers that be we speak of the Rockafellas, the Duponts and others in their league. We have more to fear from classism than racism. The above mentioned have no more in common with any of you than they do with me. They may be White but they are not like you.

I have to say that I expected to come back and see that some had viewed the link that I posted and would be outraged by the information. Not a conspiracy theory, but proven facts relating to what has been done to Americans and even military members. There is so much more if only you look.

And like I stated, the Tuskegee Experiment is not that far removed from other "medical experiments' known to be done by a government agency. So with all of this racism talk going on, who does it benefit to keep our eyes closed to their agenda?

I like all of you love my country without pause, but there are some agencies within our government that have their own agendas and will tell you they are doing it for the good of the country. Respond to that if you will.

quote:

Originally posted by Berlin93:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by jasu2:
Yeah he said white people created HIV to kill black people. Let me put it this way,,,, Black people sell crack because they want to kill white people,, that sound racist? How bout this, white people are so evil and want to kill black people that they would research, develope and release HIV into the world solely for the destruction of black people. That sound racist to you?
...


BTW when Wright called Hannity stupid, which book in the bible you think he took that line from? Yeah hes a mighty fine example of a Christian man!

Calling Hannity "stupid" doesn't make you a racist. It just means that you're not blind.

Wright claimed that "white people created HIV to kill black people"? Link to the quote, please. let's debate what he really said.

Did Wright claim that the US government searched out hundreds of blacks with undiagnosed syphilis and observed them for decades without treating them or telling them they were dieing of syphilis? Did he claim that the white officials said, "the men's status did not warrant ethical debate. They were subjects, not patients; clinical material, not sick people." how much HIV has been forced on him? What about that syphilis,, how much did white America give him? What about his Church goers? How many of them were targeted for destruction? How many "negreos " do you know that have been victims of these programs which your "evil" country has developed?

Man. That would be crazy talk. If the United States government had done that to sick Norwegian Americans, I'd be pizzed. I'd be angry. I'd be irrationally angry at the US government. Wouldn't you, jasu? Unless you feel that "Negroes" are "clinical material, not sick people". Do you? Are you freaking kidding? Hey I bet whites are out figuring out new ways to kill baby seals right now. Clubbing them on the head was to "clinical" Hey the US gov gives out crazy meds all the time to soldiers white and black, you think they are tryin to destroy soldiers? Huh , do ya? You and others with these sick fantisies of groups of people In the the US trying to kill others. Oh and your term of the word "negroes" only goes to show your character, or lack thereof. You spout it like all others that do to insight discord and hatred. What not be a real man and spout the real "N" word! Its 2008, most of us have moved on, I suggest you do the same!

I hear France is taking new comers and by the sound of it you would fit right in!


OH and btw, Hey if you want to stick your dilly in every hole that walks by how is that the US govs fault? Last time I checked syphilis was an STD. I guess whites developed unprotected sex too!

quote:

Originally posted by AngelHeart:

quote:

white people created HIV to kill black people

Mighty...he associates the government with white America. You can hear it in his voice. The only reason you can't see it or hear it is because you don't want to. Listen to the video0 again.

Video

The HIV crack was meaningless as to race.