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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Point-Counterpoint Stop Bush, the Pentagon and McCain from Robbing Our Troops|
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Experienced Member |
In terms of EDUCATION Bill, I find that is a misplaced moral issue. Uneducated people have a greater propensity in being taken advantage of by just about everybody, from unscrupulous Politicians to con men. And an uneducated populace puts us in the back seat of a Global Economy. You can stand on this "moral" issue if you wish of "unearned benifits" but how exactly did you "earn" the right to be BORN in the first place? Life itself was GIVEN to you. The nurturing of your parents was GIVEN to you. Do you WANT your children to be IDIOTS, because you believe they should go out and flip burgers (impossible to support onesself by this alone), just so they can get a degree? And if they even COULD do that, do you want them to graduate with $50,000 in DEBT, just so you can feel pleased in yourself that they "earned" it? Along with my own parenting responsibilities which I exercised as best I could, I try to do everything in my power to HELP them in their education. Not alone as a DUTY to them, but also a DUTY to my Country and the World in general. I DO NOT want to live in a world of ignorant and stupid people. (More than I have experienced already) Now if you WANT to get your nickers in a morality knot. Get notted up about educated people who DON'T USE the benifits which are provided by their education. Those who CHOOSE to be stupid and act ignorantly. If you want to teach children a sense of responsibility, find a subject when they are young which doesn't have such dire consequences if they screw it up. THEN what they have learned from that, will naturally spill over to everything else. |
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Experienced Member |
Goldie, yes it CAN be done as you've described, but so can Mt Everest be climbed by SOME of us. WHY exactly is it that you feel everyone MUST be a supurb athelete to get an education? (As if that were even possible)(Speaking metaphorically) Why does one have to have an all consuming DRIVE to simply get an education? What about the ones who want a more peacful trip down the river of life? Should THEY be cast out as "loosers" and denied such, simply because they don't share your own internal drives? If you want a huge struggle to accomplish something, go climb a mountain,nobody will stop you. But certainly, don't shove that life style off on everybody else. |
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Member |
COMMENT: McCain does face a quandry in that he will lose the Republican base that has supported Bush if he doesn't "pander" to their expected philosophical and policy "paybacks." But it's abundantly clear that the majority of Americans are dissatisfied with this Administration's performance and clearly want less government intrusion in their lives and certainly not the "moralizing" policies dictating lifestyle choices. The Republican base is insufficient alone to elect McCain, and if he remains too close to the base or patronizes them by qualifying his independence of this administration in proclaiming continued support for some of its most questionable, controversial policies -- permanent retention of the tax breaks, the Iraqi invasion, invasive and abusive surveillance, et al, then McCain will lose votes from the majority of Americans seeking respite from the excesses of many Bush policies. And Obama, a self-proclaimed but charismatic prophet of change , will inherit those voters who are more mainstream than the Republican base in addition to the traditional Democratic bloc of working class, black, and those disaffected by the Republicans -- in addition to the legion of newly-registered voters and energized former voters who will align themselves to a Democratic platform of change. It's McCain's election to lose, I believe, but he must demonstrate a new, dynamic platform of policies independent from this administration. If he cannot or is unwilling to deliver that type of political message, he will most certainly lose in November. |
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Experienced Member |
Nova, thank you. That was a well reasoned analysis and in keeping with things as I understand them.
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Member |
HEY.... I attended the State University of New York College at New Paltz. On the GI Bill, (then, about $700 a month) I paid tuition, room, board, and had some left over to buy a few "extras" in life. I was working part time with my reserve unit as a file clerk, to complete my BS in Bio. Had an E-8 there, who, after returning from Vietnam, worked 3 jobs AND went to school. Yep. The GI Bill doesn't cover an Ivy League Education.... but in truth, what's the difference between my BS and a Cornell BS? About $70,000.... in debt. SUNY all toled cost me about $6,000/year. This INCLUDES room and board. If you add in the other $1000, it covers my beer money. Spent summers working any crap job I could get.... My parents also helped me out. Family is indispensible when you are working for that degree. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Hmmmmm.....New Paltz.... saw the Mahavishnu Orchestra there in '73, that was yet a whole other edumacation.
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Highly Experienced Member |
Alcyone--
So, I'm supposed to agree that we should just hand people things on a platter? Sorry, but this is America and in America we have that right to excel and go beyond where our parents were with hard work. If you want something, you work for it----plain and simple.  |
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Experienced Member |
Goldie, most of the best things in life are INDEED "handed to us on a platter". I have no quarrel with excelling, with being the best that one is capable of. But let's not hadicap our children with that process by making it overly difficult for them. We don't ALL have to reinvent the wheel and grind it in our own cave. Give them the best tools to work with in carving the NEW life, NOT just a rehash of the same old troubles and crap that WE went through. |
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Experienced Member |
I seem to remember VEAP money being drawn out, while members were still on AD and spent on parties, cars, etc. Yeah, those guys were really interested in going to school.
I am in Texas. We have the Hazlewood Act in which all Texas veterans get their tuition paid in state institutions BY THE STATE!!! Why does the fed have to pay for something that the states have the capacity to pay? We have so many problems with pork and other expenses that everyone is fond of crying about with the fed, it seems to me that the state could alleviate much of the problem by ponying up for residents' schooling. And, I know about the Hazlewood Act because I used it myself for part of my schooling. In the end, I chose to pay for an education from a private institution and am glad I did. Remember also that TA takes care of a lot of the tuition as well. Why revamp something that doesn't need revamping? |
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Member |
Giving our troops access to the best schools no matter the cost is "too much" but when they go blind, or get ripped too shreds in an explosion or get shot in the groin that is perfectly acceptable as far as the cost of the Iraq war and whatever its suppose to accomplish...
"Too much".....F U  |
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Experienced Member |
This is totally irrelevent. My Dad put himself through college 40 years ago (in fact the exact same college I'm going to now) and did it with virtually no financial assistance. The fact is it was cheaper to go to college 20, 30, 50 years ago than it is now. College tuition has been going up FAR IN EXCESS OF INFLATION. There has been an average 51% increase in state college tuition over the last six years alone. The GI Bill is worth less, much less than it once was. This is not a handout. College is harder to afford than it once was. It's sickening to see something like the GI Bill or other financial aid called a "handout" but major corporations are given billions in bailouts and contractors in Iraq make isane amounts on projects they do not finish or do poorly. $10 billion - or one in six dollars - charged by U.S. contractors for Iraq reconstruction were questionable is a handout and a ripoff. Why not give this money to people who've proven themselves worthy of it. |
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Super Member |
not no ivery league... thats just wayyyy too much money you want to go there then flipp your own bill... thats like 30,000-40,000 a year.... This message has been edited. Last edited by: outlaws93,  |
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Basic Training |
I was Air Force for 4 years as an F-16 mechanic, got worked to the bone but never was shot at. I think that if you saw combat, you get college paid for. Any college as long as you can pass the entrance exam. Might not be perfect but it sounds fair to me.
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Member |
There are three other "GI Education Bills" currently working their way through college AND they make more sense than the Webb bill.
Webb, in Democratic fashion, wants to hand veterans an all-expense paid trip to ANY college based upon just three years of service. The other bills give veterans a graduated amount based upon how much and what type of service you experience. Combat vet? Faster and much more benefits. Stay in for 16 years and have no combat? You get 100% to any college. I realize that Demowhiners have a hard time understanding facts... but the facts are this: Webb's bill is nothing but virtual smoke up the collective azz. He knew that GWB would veto it. |
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Member |
Dude, you're not getting with the program. Obviously this is not a "priority" in the George W Bush and Republican agenda as far as the Defense Budget goes. Handing M16's to iraqi deserters is, or throwing money into an oven as you pointed out is.....but GOD FORBID we provide the BEST school NO MATTER WHAT THE COST to men who get MAIMED, KILLED or DISABLED fighting a stupid *** war... If this didn't make the CINC and his supporters look like(Insert a whole lot of deragatory words) this wouldn't be a problem... We got some turds of the highest order putting this President above veterans.... |
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Member |
Aco, I've never said this before to anyone on this forum... but dude, you are one ignorant individual. Do you even investigate the pasture pies that you throw down here? Even remotely checking out why something is done? No.... I didn't think so...
Mods... we need a special forum for Aco and RS1... Entitle it "Ignorance is Bliss" |
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Experienced Member |
Ranger, I think YOU are the one not getting with the program. I think that someone with the time and experience of GW is due acknowledgement for his being "with the program" most likely since before you were even contemplated by your daddy and certainly more "with the program" than your three years of service. Right now, I think the PRIORITY is to keep the troops alive, sheltered and fed, not to consider how to replace a program that already works very well. Dude, your priorities are all twisted.
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Member |
Like I said, if this made President Bush look good there would be no problem. The money for the war has got to come from somewhere, and the contractors sure as hell need it more than we do...
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Experienced Member |
Guess what? This doesn't make President Bush look bad to those of us who understand more than what Hollywierd or the printed rags say. He only looks bad to folks like you who let others tell you how you are supposed to think.
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