http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KDSBXg0NU4

Thats a short clip of the long cancelled series "The Lone Gunman" which was filmed in February of 2001....

Well, just watch it....Makes the Governments claims of "We hadn't the slightest clue they could do this" kind of laughable....

BTW: I am not promoting a conspiracy theory...

Yeah, well, if you read Tom Clancy's novel "Debt of Honor", published in 1994, you would read an even more terrifying parallel. Here is part of the synopsis:

"The ending also has coincidental parallels with the September 11, 2001 attacks, although the disaster is not caused by hijackers. An embittered Japan Air Lines pilot whose son was killed during the Pacific conflict flies his Boeing 747 directly into the U.S. Capitol building during a joint session of Congress with President Durling attending. He does so to avenge the deaths of his brother and son during the war. Nearly the entire United States presidential line of succession is eliminated. Ryan, who has just been appointed Vice President, is immediately sworn in as President and begins his term of office in the immediate sequel, Executive Orders."

So for all we know, Clancy could have (much more likely) given the idea to the terrorists, since they did not take the plan to UBL until 1996. They got the necessary training between 1996 and 2001. I do not believe the U.S. government knew about the plot. I think it may have come to mind after someone read the Clancy book. I read both of those books before 2001 and got a chill when I saw what happened because I thought they were advertising a movie based on the books. I was stunned they were not.

The idea of using aircraft to ram buildings is not new either, some man was arrested when Nixon was in office for a plot to fly a plane into the White House when Nixon was there in 1974.

quote:

Originally posted by PeteCDR:
Yeah, well, if you read Tom Clancy's novel "Debt of Honor", published in 1994, you would read an even more terrifying parallel. Here is part of the synopsis:

"The ending also has coincidental parallels with the September 11, 2001 attacks, although the disaster is not caused by hijackers. An embittered Japan Air Lines pilot whose son was killed during the Pacific conflict flies his Boeing 747 directly into the U.S. Capitol building during a joint session of Congress with President Durling attending. He does so to avenge the deaths of his brother and son during the war. Nearly the entire United States presidential line of succession is eliminated. Ryan, who has just been appointed Vice President, is immediately sworn in as President and begins his term of office in the immediate sequel, Executive Orders."

So for all we know, Clancy could have (much more likely) given the idea to the terrorists, since they did not take the plan to UBL until 1996. They got the necessary training between 1996 and 2001. I do not believe the U.S. government knew about the plot. I think it may have come to mind after someone read the Clancy book. I read both of those books before 2001 and got a chill when I saw what happened because I thought they were advertising a movie based on the books. I was stunned they were not.

The dates you give are interesting. We had at least one agent that had the full confidence of bin Laden and was responsible for training most of aQ's high command in that time frame. It would be difficult to imagine we were completely ignorant of this scheme.

quote:

Originally posted by Golgoth:
The idea of using aircraft to ram buildings is not new either, some man was arrested when Nixon was in office for a plot to fly a plane into the White House when Nixon was there in 1974.

"On September 12, 1994, at 1:49 a.m., a Cessna 150L airplane crashed onto the South Lawn of the White House, killing the pilot, Frank Eugene Corder, but injuring no one else. The plane came to a halt against the south wall of the Executive Mansion, causing minimal damage. President Clinton and his family were not in residence at the time; hence, they were never in any danger."

White House Security Review

quote:

Originally posted by Thud357L:

quote:

Originally posted by PeteCDR:
Yeah, well, if you read Tom Clancy's novel "Debt of Honor", published in 1994, you would read an even more terrifying parallel. Here is part of the synopsis:

"The ending also has coincidental parallels with the September 11, 2001 attacks, although the disaster is not caused by hijackers. An embittered Japan Air Lines pilot whose son was killed during the Pacific conflict flies his Boeing 747 directly into the U.S. Capitol building during a joint session of Congress with President Durling attending. He does so to avenge the deaths of his brother and son during the war. Nearly the entire United States presidential line of succession is eliminated. Ryan, who has just been appointed Vice President, is immediately sworn in as President and begins his term of office in the immediate sequel, Executive Orders."

So for all we know, Clancy could have (much more likely) given the idea to the terrorists, since they did not take the plan to UBL until 1996. They got the necessary training between 1996 and 2001. I do not believe the U.S. government knew about the plot. I think it may have come to mind after someone read the Clancy book. I read both of those books before 2001 and got a chill when I saw what happened because I thought they were advertising a movie based on the books. I was stunned they were not.

The dates you give are interesting. We had at least one agent that had the full confidence of bin Laden and was responsible for training most of aQ's high command in that time frame. It would be difficult to imagine we were completely ignorant of this scheme.

What I am saying is that the plot may have been hatched unbeknownst to any of our assets who were there. Also, if you had said on September 10, 2001 that someone would crash airplanes into the WTC and Pentagon or the Capitol on the 11th, would you have been concerned or would you have thought "no way, dude."? I know that I didn't really believe it until it had been on the news on all channels.

I think that nobody would have thought it possible, especially after reading the two books.

As far as Clancy's book was concerned (yes, I read it when it first came out), I think it equally likely that the idea he presented in the book came from somebody "within the family" as it were; he talked to many personnel within the agency and the Puzzle Palace, as well as having contacts within the NSA.

He used these contacts to vet his ideas while writing his books and has said so all along.

After the actual event (9/11) somebody in the MSM recalled the storyline and asked him about it; you could see that the whole thing was very painful to him to even discuss, but he would not directly credit any one source as the basis for the idea.

quote:

Originally posted by PeteCDR:

quote:

Originally posted by Thud357L:

quote:

Originally posted by PeteCDR:
Yeah, well, if you read Tom Clancy's novel "Debt of Honor", published in 1994, you would read an even more terrifying parallel. Here is part of the synopsis:

"The ending also has coincidental parallels with the September 11, 2001 attacks, although the disaster is not caused by hijackers. An embittered Japan Air Lines pilot whose son was killed during the Pacific conflict flies his Boeing 747 directly into the U.S. Capitol building during a joint session of Congress with President Durling attending. He does so to avenge the deaths of his brother and son during the war. Nearly the entire United States presidential line of succession is eliminated. Ryan, who has just been appointed Vice President, is immediately sworn in as President and begins his term of office in the immediate sequel, Executive Orders."

So for all we know, Clancy could have (much more likely) given the idea to the terrorists, since they did not take the plan to UBL until 1996. They got the necessary training between 1996 and 2001. I do not believe the U.S. government knew about the plot. I think it may have come to mind after someone read the Clancy book. I read both of those books before 2001 and got a chill when I saw what happened because I thought they were advertising a movie based on the books. I was stunned they were not.

The dates you give are interesting. We had at least one agent that had the full confidence of bin Laden and was responsible for training most of aQ's high command in that time frame. It would be difficult to imagine we were completely ignorant of this scheme.

What I am saying is that the plot may have been hatched unbeknownst to any of our assets who were there. Also, if you had said on September 10, 2001 that someone would crash airplanes into the WTC and Pentagon or the Capitol on the 11th, would you have been concerned or would you have thought "no way, dude."? I know that I didn't really believe it until it had been on the news on all channels.

I think that nobody would have thought it possible, especially after reading the two books.

I had been involved in earlier conversations with knowledgeable individuals who were well aware that fuel laden airliners made perfectly good, albeit large, cruise missiles so I would've had no doubts concerning that aspect.

What would've caused me to say "no way" was my conviction that we had far too many safeguards in place for such a plot to succeed. That all these safeguards failed at the opportune time makes me raise questions as to what really happened regarding 911.

quote:

Originally posted by Thud357L:


I had been involved in earlier conversations with knowledgeable individuals who were well aware that fuel laden airliners made perfectly good, albeit large, cruise missiles so I would've had no doubts concerning that aspect.

What would've caused me to say "no way" was my conviction that we had far too many safeguards in place for such a plot to succeed. That all these safeguards failed at the opportune time makes me raise questions as to what really happened regarding 911.

I don't have a doubt that the reason is because we suffered from the "Pearl Harbor Syndrome," as I like to call it...complacency; a social arrogance where we citizens say "they wouldn't dare!" followed by "if they do dare, someone here will take care of them." Remember the army radar operators who believed it was impossible to get passed their network? Same thing here. The safeguards failed because they had never had to really be used before.

Then you have the "Wargame" (the movie) scenario where the missile silo commanders are issued orders to launch and a significant percentage of them refused to do so because they believed it to have been just a game. Remember all the questions about whether the orders to shoot down flight 93 were for real? The people in this country needed a bloody nose to convince them that the threats are all too real.

But I do not believe that there was any government conspiracy, or any more lack of diligence on the part of the Bush Administration than any other. Things just all seemed to line up just right for AQ so they were able to pull it off.

quote:

Originally posted by PeteCDR:

quote:

Originally posted by Thud357L:


I had been involved in earlier conversations with knowledgeable individuals who were well aware that fuel laden airliners made perfectly good, albeit large, cruise missiles so I would've had no doubts concerning that aspect.

What would've caused me to say "no way" was my conviction that we had far too many safeguards in place for such a plot to succeed. That all these safeguards failed at the opportune time makes me raise questions as to what really happened regarding 911.

I don't have a doubt that the reason is because we suffered from the "Pearl Harbor Syndrome," as I like to call it...complacency; a social arrogance where we citizens say "they wouldn't dare!" followed by "if they do dare, someone here will take care of them." Remember the army radar operators who believed it was impossible to get passed their network? Same thing here. The safeguards failed because they had never had to really be used before.

Then you have the "Wargame" (the movie) scenario where the missile silo commanders are issued orders to launch and a significant percentage of them refused to do so because they believed it to have been just a game. Remember all the questions about whether the orders to shoot down flight 93 were for real? The people in this country needed a bloody nose to convince them that the threats are all too real.

But I do not believe that there was any government conspiracy, or any more lack of diligence on the part of the Bush Administration than any other. Things just all seemed to line up just right for AQ so they were able to pull it off.

That's all a bit too pat for me.

Not only planes hitting the WTC but the psychological impact of their complete destruction was envisaged prior to 9/11. The crony Bush appointed to be executive director of the ostensibly independent 9/11 Commission, Philip Zelikow, is an expert on the psychological effects of terrorism and knew just how advantageous the complete destruction of the Twin Towers would be in terms of furthering the Neocon agenda of curtailing civil liberties and generating support for the invasion of other countries.

In the November-December 1998 edition of Foreign Affairs, Zelikow co-authored an article entitled "Catastrophic Terrorism" with former CIA Director John Deutsch and former Assistant Secretary of Defense Ashton B. Carter. The article speculated that if the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center had succeeded in causing the Twin Towers to collapse, "the resulting horror and chaos would have exceeded our ability to describe it. Such an act of catastrophic terrorism would be a watershed event in American history. It could involve loss of life and property unprecedented in peacetime and undermine America's fundamental sense of security, as did the Soviet atomic bomb test in 1949. Like Pearl Harbor, the event would divide our past and future into a before and after. The United States might respond with draconian measures scaling back civil liberties, allowing wider surveillance of citizens, detention of suspects and use of deadly force. More violence could follow, either future terrorist attacks or U.S. counterattacks." (emphasis added)
http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20051128144916707


Like many Americans I was a believer in the Bush administration 9/11 coincidence theory until 2006 when I found out that the 9/11 Commission simply refused to consider important questions such as the anthrax attacks (the anthrax was traced to a government lab in
Ft Detrick, MD), what happened to WTC Building 7 (the government agency which the Bush administration tasked to come up with an explanation still has not done so) and the question of hijacker financing, which points to CIA involvement because the head of the Pakistani intelligence agency ISI ordered the wire transfer of $100,000 to the hijackers, and was in Washington the week of 9/11 for meetings with US government officials including CIA director George Tenet.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jul/22/usa.september11

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3979568779414136481

quote:

the 9/11 Commission simply refused to consider important questions such as the anthrax attacks (the anthrax was traced to a government lab in
Ft Detrick, MD)

Here is the problem, why release proof that the Anthrax originated from an American lab?

Either way, its amazing how the anthrax attacks simply "vanished" isn't it?

The origin of the anthrax is of no consequence. By comparison, VX is only legally stored in three countries worldwide - The United States, Russia, and France. But if it turned up in used in some third world country, its origin may be traced, but that doesn't mean that the country of origin actually carried out the attack. Even with the best security, things are stolen frequently.

The same goes for GA, GB, and GD. So which country was behind the GA, GB, and VX used against the Kurds by Saddam? The French, perhaps? Why have their stores not been inventoried to account for every drop?

quote:

Originally posted by PeteCDR:

quote:

Originally posted by Thud357L:


I had been involved in earlier conversations with knowledgeable individuals who were well aware that fuel laden airliners made perfectly good, albeit large, cruise missiles so I would've had no doubts concerning that aspect.

What would've caused me to say "no way" was my conviction that we had far too many safeguards in place for such a plot to succeed. That all these safeguards failed at the opportune time makes me raise questions as to what really happened regarding 911.

I don't have a doubt that the reason is because we suffered from the "Pearl Harbor Syndrome," as I like to call it...complacency; a social arrogance where we citizens say "they wouldn't dare!" followed by "if they do dare, someone here will take care of them." Remember the army radar operators who believed it was impossible to get passed their network? Same thing here. The safeguards failed because they had never had to really be used before.

Then you have the "Wargame" (the movie) scenario where the missile silo commanders are issued orders to launch and a significant percentage of them refused to do so because they believed it to have been just a game. Remember all the questions about whether the orders to shoot down flight 93 were for real? The people in this country needed a bloody nose to convince them that the threats are all too real.

But I do not believe that there was any government conspiracy, or any more lack of diligence on the part of the Bush Administration than any other. Things just all seemed to line up just right for AQ so they were able to pull it off.

I agree completely. We tend to think of ourselves as invulnerable,& that who would dare to attack us? I hope & pray that soon the enemy comes to the feeling expressed by Admiral Yamamoto after Pear Harbor,when he stated,"I fear all we have done is awakened a sleeping giant?"

quote:

Originally posted by 18476586:

quote:

the 9/11 Commission simply refused to consider important questions such as the anthrax attacks (the anthrax was traced to a government lab in
Ft Detrick, MD)

Here is the problem, why release proof that the Anthrax originated from an American lab?

Either way, its amazing how the anthrax attacks simply "vanished" isn't it?

Why are you & so many others so eager to pin 9/11 on the President?I believe the USSCole & the first WTC attack took place during the administration of our first preapic president.

quote:

Originally posted by PeteCDR:
The origin of the anthrax is of no consequence.

It's relatively inconsequential when ranked with other facts which support US government complicity such as the fact that top administration officials started taking the anti-anthrax drug Cipro one week before the first anthrax attack took place (see http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:eARepNnMm90J:www.j...&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1 )

and the refusal of the FBI to provide Congress with the status of its anthrax "investigation."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/12/politics/main2252540.shtml

quote:

Originally posted by Stauffenberg:

quote:

Originally posted by PeteCDR:
The origin of the anthrax is of no consequence.

It's relatively inconsequential when ranked with other facts which support US government complicity such as the fact that top administration officials started taking the anti-anthrax drug Cipro one week before the first anthrax attack took place (see http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:eARepNnMm90J:www.j...&hl=en&gl=us&strip=1 )

and the refusal of the FBI to provide Congress with the status of its anthrax "investigation."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/12/12/politics/main2252540.shtml

Well, since if Congress contracted anthrax,which might put at least half of them in hospital,what would have happened to the business of Congress? Additionally,how long has the FBI been required to report to Congress? Everytime someone sneezes Congress wants to form up a committee to investigate. Was the sneeze part of a larger group of sneezers? Who had prior knowledge of the sneeze??? Was a handkerchief or Kleenex involved in some clandesine way? Was Puffs in a bad financial position?

Another interesting wild "coincidence" was that Rumsfeld chose the evening of 9/10 to release the report about an audit discovering $2.3 trillion missing from the Pentagon's books, too late for the evening news from the major networks to report until the following day.

http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/trillions.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/29/eveningnews/main325985.shtml

Y'all are just too funny - closing the door behind me.

Clancy wasn't the first major author to write about the probable effectiveness of an airliner being used as a weapon, either.

Stephen King wrote about it decades ago, in his short story, The Running Man, (which bears no resemblence to the crappy movie of the same name starring Ahhhnold).

quote:

Originally posted by PeteCDR:
The origin of the anthrax is of no consequence. By comparison, VX is only legally stored in three countries worldwide - The United States, Russia, and France. But if it turned up in used in some third world country, its origin may be traced, but that doesn't mean that the country of origin actually carried out the attack. Even with the best security, things are stolen frequently.

The same goes for GA, GB, and GD. So which country was behind the GA, GB, and VX used against the Kurds by Saddam? The French, perhaps? Why have their stores not been inventoried to account for every drop?

Actually, it IS of some significance where the Anthrax originated. There are safeguards in place I am sure to protect such materials (at least in the US) The fact that it was HERE in the US where we DO have such safeguards, raises some eyebrows.
It is well known that the CIA (and presumably other espionage agencies) are highly compartmentalized, oftentimes where the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. In that kind of structure, it is PROBABLE that one of those departments could turn rogue to the general direction of the agency, either partly or completely at SOME time or another. We then have to depend on a very few group of people to monitor and track what everybody is doing (assuming even THEY can get accurate and truthful information)With all the smoke that Conspiracy theorists generate, there is BOUND to be a little real fire around from time to time.

CIA, OSI, NSA (big),etc., and the latest kid on the block, Homeland "Security"

Once you enter here, NOTHING is as it seems...
Alice in Wonderland...

And let's not forget those kamikazes of WWII.