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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Point-Counterpoint Being Gay is a choice - but Religion is in your DNA?|
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Well, that's what the spokesman for House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) would have you believe.
"http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/10/13/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5381671.shtml" So religion is an immutable characteristic (something that is part of you that you have no choice about), like being born with blue eyes or being born Korean - but being gay (or. for that matter, being straight or being bisexual) is something you choose? I, for one, believe I was born hetrosexual and my hetrosexuality isn't something I chose - it is an immutable characteristic. Since I was born hetrosexual, why is it impossible for another person to be born homosexual or bisexual? On the other hand, I believe I chose intellectually and voluntarily to be religious - I wasn't born religious. |
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Experienced Member |
"I was born a poor black man..."
 ... the irony here is Boehner is The Jerk. |
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 "88M, CAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS CARGO."  |
So, you are saying, that even though you profess to be a Christian, that you are OK with Homosexuality? That you believe Christ, and therefore God, is OK with it? |
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Member |
The way I read it, Boehner supports other existing federal protections which also cover gender, but not the hate crimes legislation.
Religion is obviously not something built into your DNA, otherwise how would people be able to convert? The question I have is how is that this expansion of Hate Crimes legislation made it into a defense appropriations bill when Military Spouse Residency Relief was pulled from it for not being within the purview of the Armed Services committees? So much for all that change we were hoping for. |
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10 DAYS SUSPENSION NEMESIS |
There's a difference between thinking it fits into your personal religious beliefs and thinking it should be legal, and that homosexuals should be treated by the government as humans equal to all others.
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Experienced Member |
John Boehner is doing what all politicians do. Speak out the side of their mouth. He tried to justify his position with lame azz excuses which make no sense at all to anyone but himself in his own little mind. He will later (if pressured) retract the statement as a gaff or attempt to tell us it was out of context or some other double speak.
This is politico 101. Not a single politician anywhere that doesn't do stupid things like this. ultimately, he doesn't like homosexuals and/or he believes supporting their agenda would be bad for his re-election campaign and he needed to make up some excuse for his position that wouldn't inflame some segment of his voter base. Opppsss.. he failed.. happens all the time. |
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Member |
Wow... I agree with you! |
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veni, vidi, vici |
Christianity and homosexuality are BOTH matters of choice.
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This is fugged up on so many levels.
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So you tried everything and made a choice to be both Christian and what? Heterosexual? |
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veni, vidi, vici |
In that same sense, muderers made a choice too, I've never tried that either. Nudist made a choice, I've never tried that either. S and M folks made a choice, I've never tried that either. Free masons made a choice, I've never tried that either. Missionaries made a choice, I've never tried that either. You see there, it's all about personal preferences. If one chooses to be gay, then thats his/hers own personal preference, and their own business. |
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Member |
I agree with some of those choices but there is one interesting aspect in what you are saying. You are saying that you could stop getting aroused by women and be attracted to men and enjoy sex with men, just by choosing to do so? |
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veni, vidi, vici |
No, because I don't want to. Neither can I stop listening to rock music and begin to listen to classic Country music just by choosing to. I'm not putting down anything, Just saying that we all have choices to do what we like, feel or just simply want to do. |
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Member |
Well obviously it's a hypothetical question. Most heterosexual men wouldn't even like entertaining the idea. But, I must say you are quite strong-willed if you think you can just as easily choose to stop getting aroused by any women ever, than to stop listening to rock music. (And I'm not saying you're judging anyone, I think we just disagree on how sexuality develops.) |
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Member |
Alright, this lost me - homosexuality is a choice because you cannot listen to country music? I don't like country music either, but that has never stopped me from listening to it - given sufficient incentive. Sex is always a choice - every time I have done so it has been a conscious decision as to what I was doing and who I was doing it with. Although I am straight, I could choose to perform some homosexual act given sufficient incentive - a possibility that occurs occasionally in comedy routines. Love is not a choice - I did not choose to fall in love with my wife, nor did I choose the fact that everytime I have fallen in love (or thought at the time that I had done so) it has been with a woman. I did not choose what I feel when I see a pretty woman or a handsome man - attraction in the first case and indifference in the second. To put it back in your analogy, I can choose to listen to country music, I cannot choose to want to listen to country music on its own merits. |
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veni, vidi, vici |
We both have the right to agree or disagree. It itself is a matter of opinion. I respect your opinion, cheers  |
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Sarcastic Member |
I think the disconnect is differentiating between attraction and action. Engaging in sexual activity of any kind is a choice (barring rape). Who you are attracted to is much less so. If you have never been attracted to men you have never made a choice to be attracted to women. Have you ever been attracted to someone you know that you shouldn't be attracted to? A friend's wife, a relative, a much younger woman? If you ever have, then you know that the attraction is not a choice. Acting on that attraction most certainly is, but the attraction itself is not. |
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Experienced Member |
But you agree that, no matter how hard you try, you just can't get into classic country music. There's just something about it that you find repellent; and you can't explain why you never liked it, you just know you never could. I'm with you that you can actively choose not to listen to classic country music, but I disagree that you actively chose not to like it in the first place; that part was somehow ingrained.  |
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So you ARE saying you tried homosexuality and didn't like it? Because that's what it would take for it to be a CHOICE. I con see how you could choose to be a Christian. All you have to do is not think about it when the tradition that surrounds you is all that way. But a choice between homo and hetero? How does that work, exactly, unless you've tried both? |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Ok lets change this a little. I think people agree that having sex is voluntary (except for rape of course) so the issue is actually about sexual attraction/ Tests have been done on INVOLUNTARY responses to sexual clues that show that most people have SOME sexual attraction to both sexes with the curve being shifted to heterosexual (as would be expected). But only a minority (3rd sigma if I remember correctly) to just one gender or respond almost equally to both genders. Most people respond to mostly to a one or other genders with minor response to the other. Given this study of involuntary sexual attraction why do you claim that being a homosexual is a choice for anyone except the small minority that respond a lot to both genders. Remember INVOLUNTARY responses show that MOST homosexuals have only minor or no response to the opposite gender just like most heterosexuals have only minor or no response to the same gender. This message has been edited. Last edited by: rayld2, |
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"88M, CAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS CARGO." |
Just like I choose not to eat tripe, without ever having tried it. Same goes with chittlins, never tried them and wont' |
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Experienced Member |
Being turned on by whichever sex, is all about chemical reactions. You cannot control that.
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Member |
Do you WANT to eat tripe or chittlins? You seem fundamentally unable to discern the distinction between an action and the desire to perform that action, or (for that matter) the distinction between sex and love. |
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So you're saying that somebody sits in a dark room and holds out his right hand and says, "On this hand, I think I'd like to be homo. Just think of the benefits: I get to be austracized by everyone, I get to diddle with men instead of people I'm attracted to, I don't get to be married and share inheritance rights or the right to be in a hospital room with my loved one, and I get an increased chance of getting AIDS. Yes Homosexuality is for me." And you hold out the other hand and say, "While it would be exceedingly pleasurable to diddle with men, I could choose to spend my life with women." How the fek is there a choice involved? I could no more CHOOSE to diddle with men than I could choose to saw off my hand. The only way you could make an argument for choice is if you, yourself, actually had one. Which would make you bisexual. |
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"88M, CAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS CARGO." |
I'm not sure how you ended up in your "dark room" trying to make a decision about your sexuality - but I'll grant you the point. You may choose to saw off your arm, people disfigure themselves in different ways every day - including tatoos, piercings, ritual scarring etc. Put a man and a woman in front of you anc choose - guess what - you made your choice. |
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"88M, CAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS CARGO." |
I have no problems with the fundamental question, I was merely carrying the discussion in the direction it was headed. what kind of love do you want to discuss, but remember, that is off topic. |
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Stretching.... |
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"88M, CAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS CARGO." |
Well then, lets tighten up the shot group - show me the exact science you use to point out that this is a genetic trait. |
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Member |
When I was young I realized I was attracted to the same-sex. I tried to change this attraction but was unable to.
I was also a Christian and had no difficulty in becoming a unbeliever when God didn't answer my prayer requesting He make me a heterosexual. Signed, The Happy Heathen |
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"88M, CAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS CARGO." |
So, you were how old? The reason I wonder is that you state you were a christian. You are saying you were past the age of reasonability (or whatever you want to call it) where you understood what God was and how he wanted to be in your life? How exactly did you ask him to straighten out you life, and how long did you give him?
Was it the usual thing where you said "I want this to stop and I want it to stop now!" |
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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Point-Counterpoint Being Gay is a choice - but Religion is in your DNA?
