WASHINGTON – Students beware: The summer vacation you just enjoyed could be sharply curtailed if President Barack Obama gets his way.

Obama says American kids spend too little time in school, putting them at a disadvantage with other students around the globe.

"Now, I know longer school days and school years are not wildly popular ideas," the president said earlier this year. "Not with Malia and Sasha, not in my family, and probably not in yours. But the challenges of a new century demand more time in the classroom."

The president, who has a sixth-grader and a third-grader, wants schools to add time to classes, to stay open late and to let kids in on weekends so they have a safe place to go.

"Our school calendar is based upon the agrarian economy and not too many of our kids are working the fields today," Education Secretary Arne Duncan said in a recent interview with The Associated Press.

The rest of the article here:
***http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090927/ap_on_re_us/us_more_school

Interesting....when did school/local decisions become federal? Maybe this mean that we should do away with the state education agencies.

Do you agree with the longer days and longer school year? If so why? If not why?

As a reference point, how many days do youngsters attend school in the USA ?

Does it vary from state to state ?

Here (Scotland) its 200 days school openings in the scholastic year - that's for both Primary (elementary) and Secondary (high school)establishments.

All academic institutions in the developed world have long school and university/college holidays - because there is a limit to how much learning can be absorbed in a given timespan.

Making kids attend school more will not necessarily improve attainment - in fact it may hinder it in the long run.

Maybe there is a hidden agenda - if kids are at school more often then there is less chance of them engaging in anti social behaviour ?

Well I am not sure I disagree with him on this one.

I like the idea of six week semesters, two weeks off, then back to school. I believe the two weeks off is enough of a break for the children. And two weeks off is just long enough that they don't lose the edge in school.

However, to answer your question, whether the Feds, state or local official know it or not. We are the parents of our granddaughter and we make the decisions regarding them - as some school official found out in Virginia.

Frisco

I'm also for it.

I think year-round school with semesters broken up by shorter breaks instead of one long summer break is more beneficial to the students and our overall national education.

There is no practical purpose served by our summer long vacations. It's an antiquated system designed for the days when kids were needed to work the farm's greater summer needs and no one had heard of modern air conditioning.

Students would benefit in that shorter breaks would lead to greater retention of previously covered material upon the quicker return to school work. Instead of spending the first few weeks rehashing old material in order to get kids back up to speed, the teachers could instead more quickly move on to new material. The system would become more efficient and our national education levels would likely increase because of it.

Hey Aggie... Good to cya! Ironically I posted this as an 'afterthought' elsewhere so I've read the article. The few children interviewed did not like the idea. I seem to recall that the length of time per day would increase also. If so, then dismissal time at 7 PM places our children exiting in the dark of night. Overall, Aggie, I am opposed. Perhaps it is just that so many "Traditional" Values have changed rapidly. There is a 'tinge' of socialism in the article also. More CHANGE!! I'm worn out on change. I am willing to say that what is best for our children is the way to go. (The article briefly touches on 'more school time' does not necessarily compute into better overall school performance) I think the smaller children could become 'worn out'. JMHO

quote:

Originally posted by aggie_swife:
WASHINGTON – Students beware: The summer vacation you just enjoyed could be sharply curtailed if President Barack Obama gets his way.

Obama says American kids spend too little time in school, putting them at a disadvantage with other students around the globe.

"Now, I know longer school days and school years are not wildly popular ideas," the president said earlier this year. "Not with Malia and Sasha, not in my family, and probably not in yours. But the challenges of a new century demand more time in the classroom."

The president, who has a sixth-grader and a third-grader, wants schools to add time to classes, to stay open late and to let kids in on weekends so they have a safe place to go.

"Our school calendar is based upon the agrarian economy and not too many of our kids are working the fields today," Education Secretary Arne Duncan said in a recent interview with The Associated Press.

The rest of the article here:
***http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090927/ap_on_re_us/us_more_school

Interesting....when did school/local decisions become federal? Maybe this mean that we should do away with the state education agencies.

Do you agree with the longer days and longer school year? If so why? If not why?

This idea has been floating around for longer than Obama.

I know lots of folks who view school simply as free daycare, so they will be happy with year round school.

quote:

Originally posted by ScotsVisitor:
As a reference point, how many days do youngsters attend school in the USA ?

Does it vary from state to state ?

Here (Scotland) its 200 days school openings in the scholastic year - that's for both Primary (elementary) and Secondary (high school)establishments.

All academic institutions in the developed world have long school and university/college holidays - because there is a limit to how much learning can be absorbed in a given timespan.

Making kids attend school more will not necessarily improve attainment - in fact it may hinder it in the long run.

Maybe there is a hidden agenda - if kids are at school more often then there is less chance of them engaging in anti social behaviour ?

Michigan used to mandate 180 days, but changed that in 2003 to 1,098 'instruction hours'--a certain number of teacher in-service hours can count toward that total.

The point of that exercise was to save money. Longer days--and fewer days--save on heating and bus transportation.

There are also some that say more days off of school boosts the tourist economy here.

Place whatever value you like on those priorities.

quote:

Most schools don't meet 180-day mandate


By TIM WEATHERHEAD
Special to the Record-Eagle


LANSING -- Almost all of Michigan's public schools don't meet the old state mandate of 180 class days, and money is the reason.

"It all boils down to finances," said Sturgis Public Schools Superintendent Rob Olsen. "Most of the districts have reduced days and increased the minutes in a day due to the fact that it's cost-saving."

Olsen said his district scheduled 178 school days this year.

"Financially, we're in good shape, but if we keep going the way we are as a state, I'm not sure what's going to happen," he added.

In 2003, legislators changed the mandate that set a minimum number of school days to a minimum 1,098 total hours...
http://www.record-eagle.com/statenews/local_story_096065520.html

quote:

The president, who has a sixth-grader and a third-grader, wants schools to add time to classes, to stay open late and to let kids in on weekends so they have a safe place to go.

Gee we used to call this home.

I think too many of the motivations for this aren't academic. Besides, I thought we were experiencing economic hard times. How will the extra teacher salaries and other expenses of keeping schools open be paid? Only a fraction of education expenses are paid for by the Federal government. The rest is paid for by state and local taxes.

The only downside I see to this would be the tourist trade. Places built on summer ecomomies would be hardest hit.

First off, if we focus on teaching our children what they need to know and stop focusing on what other countries are doing we will do a better job of educating.

Second, 7 hours of instruction per day for 5 days a week is about all most children should be expected to handle effectively. Anymore than that is a waste of time and does not give the children enough time to absorb new material. Realistically, schools should start early, around 7:30-8:30 and end early rather than later. Kids need down-time also, and trying to cram more into their heads for longer periods is the brain-storm of idiots who are more focused on what other countries are doing...without taking into consideration the disabling stress those countries children face in order to be successful there.

As for extending the school year another 30-40 days...yes, it may be beneficial for SOME children, but not for ALL children. Do we turn every state's education system completely upside down just to benefit those few who would benefit from the additional instruction time at the expense of the many who will not? How about the additional costs involved? Are people really ready to fork over more taxes to pay for the additional days? There is increased teacher salary, fuel for buses, pay for drivers, feeding the kids and paying the cafeteria workers, the additional janitorial personnel to maintain the buildings all year..and the expense of cooling the buildings through the summer months. Will Americans bite that financial bullet? I don't think so, especially when the ROI is so marginal.

Finally, lets face it...if the US is doing such a bad job of educating our children, then why are we STILL the greatest nation in history?

Why, so we can have more video's of students singing praise songs for the "annointed one" ?

Maybe if most parents would spend more time with their children. Getting their school work done and helping them to understand the material when they don't understand. Setting specified times to do their work each school day. The school system extending academic days IMO, is not the answer. Down time is critical and trading down time for more time in school will not smarten these kids up.

quote:

Originally posted by skinman13:
First off, if we focus on teaching our children what they need to know and stop focusing on what other countries are doing we will do a better job of educating.

Second, 7 hours of instruction per day for 5 days a week is about all most children should be expected to handle effectively. Anymore than that is a waste of time and does not give the children enough time to absorb new material. Realistically, schools should start early, around 7:30-8:30 and end early rather than later. Kids need down-time also, and trying to cram more into their heads for longer periods is the brain-storm of idiots who are more focused on what other countries are doing...without taking into consideration the disabling stress those countries children face in order to be successful there.

As for extending the school year another 30-40 days...yes, it may be beneficial for SOME children, but not for ALL children. Do we turn every state's education system completely upside down just to benefit those few who would benefit from the additional instruction time at the expense of the many who will not? How about the additional costs involved? Are people really ready to fork over more taxes to pay for the additional days? There is increased teacher salary, fuel for buses, pay for drivers, feeding the kids and paying the cafeteria workers, the additional janitorial personnel to maintain the buildings all year..and the expense of cooling the buildings through the summer months. Will Americans bite that financial bullet? I don't think so, especially when the ROI is so marginal.

Finally, lets face it...if the US is doing such a bad job of educating our children, then why are we STILL the greatest nation in history?

Skinman,
This is a great post. You need to forward it on to the president. Do remind him that you are a democrat. I think you referred to his enlightened education staff and czar as idiots.

In addition to your comments, it seems that someone didn't take into account those students (in particular) high school that take college classes during the summer. What about students that are very serious about gymnastics, dance, select sports, music, etc? I have some students that miss my class due to their appointment (set by CPS) being scheduled before the end of the school day. Actually as you suggested earlier days with earlier release so that students could get to the orthodontist or dentist appointments after school.

Also, just because some children are in need of "something to do" does not mean all are in need. Some areas run a program with the YMCA or Boys/Girls Club where children go after school to experience enrichment programs. Since the article referred to Mr. Obama's children, too, the writer of the article must have missed the fact that Catholic schools go approximately the same amount of days though they include a 45 min. or so Mass in the school day. (Where I taught, we had mass 3 mornings a week and spent the same hours in school as the public school across the street.) Catholic schools are well known for giving an excellent education. So increased hours is not necessarily the end-all answer.

quote:

Originally posted by ScotsVisitor: Maybe there is a hidden agenda - if kids are at school more often then there is less chance of them engaging in anti social behaviour ?

Perhaps, if they are not among the kids who disrupt classes and hinder learning even for the students who seek knowledge.

I just don't see how "quanity" improves "quality". If that were the case, then all of the money we've already thrown at the problem would have resulted in an improvement. For example, if you have a sub-par teacher, and the children have to spend more time with him or her, will that improve their education? Or...will the results still remain sub-par?

Not sure that this is a bad thing, we have been talking about extending the school year for quite some time now. Not too keen on the extra 3 hours a day though. Maybe an extra hour would be ok, but there needs to be time for family and friends in kids lives.

I never did understand the reasoning behind closing (at least, under utilizing) school facilities for a quarter of the year...not to mention the degree to which kids brains turn to mush over the summer. I didn't read the article and I have reservations about BO's motives and means but, God help me, I kinda agree on this one.

what need to be done is to assure the kids "learn" what they are supposed to before advancing them to the next grade... not PC I know but that does seem to be the rule... more emphasis on math and science is a must IMHO... when I entered into highschool you had a choice, take the basic road or take the science/math road. Now days it seems a kid can opt for basket weaving and still make them proud that they completed school - and the school is off the hook - and we have another kid wondering what the hell happened as they look for entry level meaningful work. Make me the education czar and there'd be a whole schithouse load of teachers going down the road too and I wouldn't care if a kid was 20 and still in the forth grade, you don't learn you don't advance. PERIOD!!!

quote:

Originally posted by The_Bonesaw:
The only downside I see to this would be the tourist trade. Places built on summer ecomomies would be hardest hit.

In Las Vegas almost half the k-5 schools are 12 months. All the kids still have regular spring break, christmas-new years break. The one school I do know of split the school in to 5 different 'teams' at any given time of the year there is only 4 teams attending at one time, with a team being off for 2-3 weeks at a time, more if it ran up against an everybody break.

In Germany during the 80's, it may well be the same way today. Kids attended year round with entire schools taking more breaks than the US but shorter ones. They graduated at 16 and then depending on grades, ambition and likes, the kids entered 2 year prep school for college, entered an aprenticeship course for a given trade or worked for family.

So under both systems tourism still happened.

quote:

Originally posted by skinman13:
Finally, lets face it...if the US is doing such a bad job of educating our children, then why are we STILL the greatest nation in history?

How about: because we are riding the diminshing wave of our predecessors and buying brains from overseas to make up the difference? In most white-collar fields (where academics matters) it takes ~10 years past the degree to really be at a strong point in your profession. So problems in elementary schools won't hit us in the wallet for two decades!

But still, we are seeing this problem right now. In engineering (my field) there are few citizens able to complete even an undergrad proram, fewer still able to complete a grad program - my grad lab has 10 Chinese, a Frenchman, and myself. My work group (at a defense contractor) has several new citizens, and I am aware of at least one case of a defense contractor actively recruiting internationals because they just can't get Americans!!!

The causes for this are not entirely academic - many of those able to complete these rigorous programs are also able to find more lucrative work in law or business, opportunities not available to most children from India or China.

Still, we are experiencing problems NOW.

quote:

Originally posted by cosmicfish:

quote:

Originally posted by skinman13:
Finally, lets face it...if the US is doing such a bad job of educating our children, then why are we STILL the greatest nation in history?

How about: because we are riding the diminshing wave of our predecessors and buying brains from overseas to make up the difference? In most white-collar fields (where academics matters) it takes ~10 years past the degree to really be at a strong point in your profession. So problems in elementary schools won't hit us in the wallet for two decades!

But still, we are seeing this problem right now. In engineering (my field) there are few citizens able to complete even an undergrad proram, fewer still able to complete a grad program - my grad lab has 10 Chinese, a Frenchman, and myself. My work group (at a defense contractor) has several new citizens, and I am aware of at least one case of a defense contractor actively recruiting internationals because they just can't get Americans!!!

The causes for this are not entirely academic - many of those able to complete these rigorous programs are also able to find more lucrative work in law or business, opportunities not available to most children from India or China.

Still, we are experiencing problems NOW.

So you're not seeing the shortage of US born and educated engineers, doctors, nurses, programmers, college professors, biologists, botanists and chemists coming from a shortage of down-time for our schoolchildren?

I was wondering when you'd jump into this one, Fish...

That is a great idea. My kids probably wouldn't like it as much, but it would keep the teachers from having to waste the first several weeks of a school year reviewing material the kids have already been taught.

There are other ways to get more class time. One is eliminating teacher "planning" days. The school district we are in has at least one day a month the kids are not in school, but the teachers go in. My wife works as a special education assistant, and her experience is nothing gets done on those days anyway.

To improve education salaries have to increase. My wife is working on her degree and as special ed assistant she makes $9 an hour. Since she only work 9 months a year she has a take home pay of just about $850 a month. I made that much working at a Dairy Queen when I was 17. I would consider teaching after I retire from the Army in about 7 years, but I probably wouldn't do it for $40 or 45K a year.

quote:

Originally posted by RRR52:

quote:

Originally posted by ScotsVisitor: Maybe there is a hidden agenda - if kids are at school more often then there is less chance of them engaging in anti social behaviour ?

Perhaps, if they are not among the kids who disrupt classes and hinder learning even for the students who seek knowledge.

Although that's a separate issue, we have the same problem here.

The French have an admirable policy on disruptive schoolkids - the offenders are sent home to become the parents responsibility and have their family welfare benefits stopped until they guarantee their children's behaviour.

On the holiday question - the idea of going to more terms per year with a fortnight break between each is attractive and has significant support.

The teachers unions will no doubt have an opinion on any change in the academic calendar and I doubt such organizations will have much enthusiasm for increasing the school year without at least a commensurate increase in salary's. As such I seriously doubt such a change will happen any time soon.

quote:

Originally posted by The_Bonesaw:
The only downside I see to this would be the tourist trade. Places built on summer ecomomies would be hardest hit.

Similar suggestions have been made over here, and I suspect it affect more than the tourist trade.

If all kids had, say 2 weeks off in the summer, then most parents would also want to take vacations over those same two weeks, leading to either almost total shutdown in many industries, or to disputes in the workplace as to who should be given that time. Flights/accommodation over that period would be charged at astronomical rates.

It has been suggested that schools could stagger their holidays, but that causes problems when families have children at more than one school.

Given that time spent on vacation with parents (assuming they are 'good' parents) can be at least as educational as time spent in the classroom, I am personally opposed to such changes.

Living in a college town, and a college-oriented community at that, I make money on the side as a tutor.
I am aghast at how many of them don't know the basics such as algebra, 9th grade level history/civics, and HS level sciences.

Something needs to be done to correct this, or we won't be #1 for long.

I am ALL FOR IT...providing they add to it a huge tax break that would pay for my children to go to a private school that does not do this.


We sure need to ensure kids are not allowed to be kids

Year-around school . . I used to joke to my high school English classes that the time would some day come that we would be sitting in class some July or August discussing a poem about the beauties of being outside during the summer...and the students would not be able to comprehend what it was trying to say - -

Every area of the country differs, and it is hard to say what the perfect answer is, but experiences far away from classrooms are needed by kids to round out their lives - jobs, trips, camps, etc... There is so much out there that cannot be brought into the classroom. Cocooning students in a school environment for 12-15 years of their lives makes them too used to being cocooned.

When I first started teaching, the school year was 170 days. As it crept to 180 days, I saw more student lethargy coming in, especially as class sizes went from 25 to 40. Coming back to the same room day after day after day, no matter how committed the teacher is, and how varied he or she tries to make the material, can become boring on the face of it - just another day at school - -

Now, I know for a fact that many who wish to see a longer school year are looking for a way to release parents for more work time: Year-around Day Care. Though some see this as a legitimate reason for a longer school year and school day, it is horrible thinking. Any reason for more school time other than "learning" is a perversion of the "school" concept. Teachers are NOT baby-sitters! Though that is often how they are really viewed and treated - not as professionals...

Still, I often quipped, with classroom loads of 40 and more, that if I were paid the old "Baby-Sitting Rate" of $1.00 an hour for ever student sitting in my room ($240.00 a day), I might be tempted!

quote:

Originally posted by aggie_swife:
WASHINGTON – Students beware: The summer vacation you just enjoyed could be sharply curtailed if President Barack Obama gets his way.

Obama says American kids spend too little time in school, putting them at a disadvantage with other students around the globe.

"Now, I know longer school days and school years are not wildly popular ideas," the president said earlier this year. "Not with Malia and Sasha, not in my family, and probably not in yours. But the challenges of a new century demand more time in the classroom."

The president, who has a sixth-grader and a third-grader, wants schools to add time to classes, to stay open late and to let kids in on weekends so they have a safe place to go.

"Our school calendar is based upon the agrarian economy and not too many of our kids are working the fields today," Education Secretary Arne Duncan said in a recent interview with The Associated Press.

The rest of the article here:
***http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090927/ap_on_re_us/us_more_school

Interesting....when did school/local decisions become federal? Maybe this mean that we should do away with the state education agencies.

Do you agree with the longer days and longer school year? If so why? If not why?

We do NOT need our kids going to school longer hours combined with more days, but instead, we need to re-establish some PRIDE IN COUNTRY (stop with the apologize), we need to stop the watered down indoctrination of our children by the Libs who have control over the education system (main problem we face), and we need to promote STRONG FAMILY VALUES and things will go back to the greatness we once were...Parents need to work with their own children at home even if it requires some downsizing of toys and partying time loss, and if they don't, we will continue to FAIL, taking more family time away will benefit no one and we will further lose our independent identity and pride in self and Country, and instead we will have a bunch of burned out Americans who are stuck in a situation similar to how many COMMUNIST Countries are ran.

As things stand right now, we go to school MORE hours and days than some of the Countries who are beating us out, if they can accomplish MORE with less, why can't we do the same?

quote:

Originally posted by scoutsout1:

quote:

Originally posted by aggie_swife:
WASHINGTON – Students beware: The summer vacation you just enjoyed could be sharply curtailed if President Barack Obama gets his way.

Obama says American kids spend too little time in school, putting them at a disadvantage with other students around the globe.

"Now, I know longer school days and school years are not wildly popular ideas," the president said earlier this year. "Not with Malia and Sasha, not in my family, and probably not in yours. But the challenges of a new century demand more time in the classroom."

The president, who has a sixth-grader and a third-grader, wants schools to add time to classes, to stay open late and to let kids in on weekends so they have a safe place to go.

"Our school calendar is based upon the agrarian economy and not too many of our kids are working the fields today," Education Secretary Arne Duncan said in a recent interview with The Associated Press.

The rest of the article here:
***http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090927/ap_on_re_us/us_more_school

Interesting....when did school/local decisions become federal? Maybe this mean that we should do away with the state education agencies.

Do you agree with the longer days and longer school year? If so why? If not why?

We do NOT need our kids going to school longer hours combined with more days, but instead, we need to re-establish some PRIDE IN COUNTRY (stop with the apologize), we need to stop the watered down indoctrination of our children by the Libs who have control over the education system (main problem we face), and we need to promote STRONG FAMILY VALUES and things will go back to the greatness we once were...Parents need to work with their own children at home even if it requires some downsizing of toys and partying time loss, and if they don't, we will continue to FAIL, taking more family time away will benefit no one and we will further lose our independent identity and pride in self and Country, and instead we will have a bunch of burned out Americans who are stuck in a situation similar to how many COMMUNIST Countries are ran.

As things stand right now, we go to school MORE hours and days than some of the Countries who are beating us out, if they can accomplish MORE with less, why can't we do the same?

Amen Brother, by sending our kids to school longer, we are taking away from our kids, taking away family time (playing catch, pacticing bb guns and batting the ball, etc.) also we are taking away "summer camp", a lot of kids look forward to summer camp of some sort. As it stands, our kids go to school more hours than most other countries, They have the right to come home WERE THEY FEEL SAFE, (come on, feel safe at school? with all that is going on in todays time, thats a joke.), They have the right to have recreation time at home and family time at home, after school activities like scouts, 4-H, etc.
This send them to school longer sounds more like a soviet union program, lets take the personal life away from our youth and replace it with the states agenda.