Further:

The moderate, middle-class segment of the US population that comprises the largest consumer group.


That is the closest thing to anything political I can find.
Being moderate is not the same as being "middle class".

quote:

Originally posted by rm444:

quote:

Originally posted by SwtDivaLove:
Mr. Average Joe American = Middle Class, slightly above, mostly below.

From Mr Webster:

Middle America is an American colloquialism used to describe either a cultural mindset or region of the United States that, geographically, comprises the bulk of rural and suburban America. This term is usually used in contrast to the more metropolitan areas. ...

Politics do not enter into it.
It is a term used to denote INCOME LEVEL.

That's basically what I was getting at.

Now rm444, you know full well that when debating or discussiong politics websters need not apply, now that obviously depends on what your definition of any of the aforementioned words is...

In the context in which the verbage in question was used, the meaning was relativly clear, even though it was not used in the manner and in reference to the accepted definition as found in a dictionary. Context and intent carry far more meaning than going to the dictionary, also, tone and a few other things can be indicative of alternate meanings to words...

What we are looking at is the political views, desires, and moods of American citizens that are of the working "middle-class" in regards to current events and the upcoming election.

That being said, my personal political views are fairly conservative, but I believe moderation is the best medicine for the nation as anything to excess is bad for ones' health, and that applies to the health of the nation as well. United we stand, divided we fall, and moderation and the working men and women of this nation are the adhesives that bind this nation together.

(By moderate/moderation I mean to imply while we each have unique and firm views, most of us prefere to not impose those views on others, and therefore subscribe to less extreme belief and legislative mannerisms than the far right and left.)

quote:

Originally posted by MM2_ss_Lewis:
Now rm444, you know full well that when debating or discussiong politics websters need not apply, now that obviously depends on what your definition of any of the aforementioned words is...

In the context in which the verbage in question was used, the meaning was relativly clear, even though it was not used in the manner and in reference to the accepted definition as found in a dictionary. Context and intent carry far more meaning than going to the dictionary, also, tone and a few other things can be indicative of alternate meanings to words...

What we are looking at is the political views, desires, and moods of American citizens that are of the working "middle-class" in regards to current events and the upcoming election.

That being said, my personal political views are fairly conservative, but I believe moderation is the best medicine for the nation as anything to excess is bad for ones' health, and that applies to the health of the nation as well. United we stand, divided we fall, and moderation and the working men and women of this nation are the adhesives that bind this nation together.

(By moderate/moderation I mean to imply while we each have unique and firm views, most of us prefere to not impose those views on others, and therefore subscribe to less extreme belief and legislative mannerisms than the far right and left.)

quote:

United we stand, divided we fall, and moderation and the working men and women of this nation are the adhesives that bind this nation together.

Again, 'moderate' and 'middle class' are not inter changeable terms.
Noone in my income bracket is happy.Neither are we happy at the prospects for the future.
We are slowly being wiped out as an economic force.
No economic force equals no voice.
The nutjobs from left and right are keeping us divided in our politics, hence we must ultimately become extinct.
You'll either be rich or poor.Care to guess which?
'Middle America' needs a viable 3rd party alternative.Hell, we need a viable 4th party alternative.

quote:

Originally posted by rm444:

quote:

United we stand, divided we fall, and moderation and the working men and women of this nation are the adhesives that bind this nation together.

Again, 'moderate' and 'middle class' are not inter changeable terms.
Noone in my income bracket is happy.Neither are we happy at the prospects for the future.
We are slowly being wiped out as an economic force.
No economic force equals no voice.
The nutjobs from left and right are keeping us divided in our politics, hence we must ultimately become extinct.
You'll either be rich or poor.Care to guess which?
'Middle America' needs a viable 3rd party alternative.Hell, we need a viable 4th party alternative.

RM444, now you are getting the idea of what I am talking about.

No, I dont get your angle at all, sorry.

quote:

Originally posted by rm444:
Again, 'moderate' and 'middle class' are not inter changeable terms.
Noone in my income bracket is happy.Neither are we happy at the prospects for the future.
We are slowly being wiped out as an economic force.
No economic force equals no voice.
The nutjobs from left and right are keeping us divided in our politics, hence we must ultimately become extinct.
You'll either be rich or poor.Care to guess which?
'Middle America' needs a viable 3rd party alternative.Hell, we need a viable 4th party alternative.

That there was DEAD on the money and exactly what the message is that I wrote about.

rm444, you do get it, but don't realize that you have gotten it. You are focusing too much on symantics to realize you are on the same side as SDL and myself. But hey, it's all good, because we know you know even if you don't know you know.

I'm still lost as to what product this debate will yield.
I posted garden variety 'middle class' thinking.
This whole 'moderate' thing has me cornfused.
Moderate presupposes compromises can be reached.ATT that is hardly the case.
And our numbers will continue to dwindle.

quote:

I am Joe Six-pack.
I am middle America.
I am an hourly, blue collar slob.
And yes, I care.

I like chicks and beer and I want to keep the damn money I work for.
Failing that, I want the money to GO FOR WHAT ITS MEANT FOR!

quote:

Originally posted by rm444:
I'm still lost as to what product this debate will yield.
I posted garden variety 'middle class' thinking.
This whole 'moderate' thing has me cornfused.
Moderate presupposes compromises can be reached.ATT that is hardly the case.
And our numbers will continue to dwindle.

I'm more with you at this point. I have been talking about this since the early 90s. And ever since all I have seen is the country getting more and more divided. Every day the middle dries up a bit more moving either left or right. Look at the parties. They are not moving toward the center. They are moving further to the left (Dems) and well I have no idea where the Repubs are these days. They have elements of the far right and the far left.

In the end the only way to bring about change is to allow the government to destroy itself. And it will eventually. Or to take it down by force which I just don't see happening without some all powerful new dictator taking over afterward..

I disagree, to some extent. While the number of people who are "middle-class"(income level) may continue to shrink, the number of people who have begun to think in terms of rejecting partisan politics and extreme left or rightist policy(persons of moderate political views) will likely continue to grow. Which, if carried to the ballot box, will result in the ultimate rejection of the major political parties, which have failed to represent the nations people as a whole, and by the dissolution of the major parties, minor party canidates can become viable personages in the election process, resulting in the political reuniting of the nation and the fair and equitable representation of the "average" American citizen at all levels of government, which can potentially result in the restoration of this country, economically speaking, by the reduction of spending for programs that have been proven to be faulty or failures, or otherwise inconsitent with the best interest of the people, such as various earmarks and entitlements and the massive funding for foreign aid.

quote:

inconsitent with the best interest of the people, such as various earmarks and entitlements and the massive funding for foreign aid.

Well. We have seperated 'moderate' from 'middle class'.I need a beer.
And since my politics are conservative, I would love to see a return to smaller federal govt and a return to fiscal responsibility.
Term limits,alternative energy, less soft money and lobbies in DC...the list goes on.
All stuff which Democrats like, and career politicians in general like.
How voting for the same tired Parties will result in a 3rd and 4th party escapes me.
I see the storm clouds of Revolution gathering.
The cleansing will require blood, as usual.

MM2_ss_Lewis, PM INBOUND!

quote:

Originally posted by MM2_ss_Lewis:
I disagree, to some extent. While the number of people who are "middle-class"(income level) may continue to shrink, the number of people who have begun to think in terms of rejecting partisan politics and extreme left or rightist policy(persons of moderate political views) will likely continue to grow. Which, if carried to the ballot box, will result in the ultimate rejection of the major political parties, which have failed to represent the nations people as a whole, and by the dissolution of the major parties, minor party canidates can become viable personages in the election process, resulting in the political reuniting of the nation and the fair and equitable representation of the "average" American citizen at all levels of government, which can potentially result in the restoration of this country, economically speaking, by the reduction of spending for programs that have been proven to be faulty or failures, or otherwise inconsitent with the best interest of the people, such as various earmarks and entitlements and the massive funding for foreign aid.

While I share your sentiment, I don't think it will work quite the way you suggest. I believe that increasingly we will see the election of moderates, regardless of party. Whether that ultimately produces a viable third party I don't know but I suggest it will produce a greater representation by moderates in both existing major parties. We saw this, to a significant degree, in the 2006 election and the resulting increased influence of Blue Dog Democrats in the US House. We also saw it (though to a slightly lesser degree) in the US Senate. I don't think anyone can call Senator Webb, for example, a left winger. I fully agree that a great number of Americans are sick and tired of the "my way or the highway" method of doing business by the extremes in both parties.

The inability of either major party to secure a clear and meaningful mandate by the election process will have certain results, such as non-major party canidates having more influence on the election process, forcing the major parties to reorganize and revamp their political platforms, and making any slips along the way much more dangerous to the party machine. Thus, the current conditions and if they should be maintained may result in the demise of the major parties and the viability of non-major party canidates that do not espouse the views of the far left or right, which may be far more influential than it would now seem, as a large number of voters are currently "single-issue voters" that vote on the basis of protecting or expanding one particular right or belief that is important to them personally, whereas a non-major canidate could appeal to more than just the "one issue" of a particular voter, and could in fact appeal to multiple issues, securing a large percentage of the vote, thereby making the position of the major parties less tenable.

SDL, PM inbound.

(Note) Jade_Gate, should a greater representaationof moderate belief occure in either or both of the major parties, it will result n a new part belief system, thus forming an essentially "new" prty, even if the name does not change. Afterall, there was a time when Democrats were very conservative and Republicans very liberal, and over the years we have merrely seen the results of disillusioned people changing from a party they felt did not represent them to another, that changed its' views and tenants on the basis of the people being added to the party and the people leaving it.

This is exactly what I am talking about...

Good job, MM2!

quote:

Originally posted by MM2_ss_Lewis:

Problem with your theory is that the parties pick their candidates not the electorate. And well the system is setup to make it all but impossible to get into the game if your not backed by one of the parties or very very very wealthy.

And the parties aren't picking middle of the road candidates. Just look at the three up for president in 08. Who you going to vote for? Which one is middle of the road? There is no choice in that one.

And even if the middle of the road gets 20 house seats and 4 senate seats that really means nothing. Its the same thing we've had now for decades.

Look at the Senate and the House. The most powerful individual in either one. Which one is middle of the road? The power is shifting to the radicals not the middle of the road.

quote:

Jade_Gate, should a greater representaationof moderate belief occure in either or both of the major parties, it will result n a new part belief system, thus forming an essentially "new" prty, even if the name does not change. Afterall, there was a time when Democrats were very conservative and Republicans very liberal, and over the years we have merrely seen the results of disillusioned people changing from a party they felt did not represent them to another, that changed its' views and tenants on the basis of the people being added to the party and the people leaving it.

I agree with that ... in fact, that is what I was suggesting, perhaps ineptly, in my comment on your earlier post. I would submit that it is happening as we type ... Speaker Pelosi is having a bit of a rough time with her Blue Dog Democrats that are looking for pay-go on Senator Webb's GI Bill proposal ... and a few of the Blue Dog Democrats were, quite literally, more conservative on some issues than the Republicans they defeated in 2006.

What I don't think will happen in my lifetime is for very many non-major party candidates to fare well in elections though, in some places, they may well influence the elections significantly and, as you noted, help shift major party platforms to counter them. I had some initial hope for Unity08, for example, last year ... but it fizzled.