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Picture of Silent_Surface
Posted
How often have you said that you "Voted for the LESSER OF TWO EVILS???

I have said for most of my adult life that we should have another choice.... the ability to choose NONE OF THE ABOVE (NOTA) in any election, where, if NOTA won, a new election would be held, with new candidates. Candidates who ran in the election won by NOTA would be ineligible to run in the new election.

I was amazed to find that people are actually banding together in support of this idea, which, in my opinion, WOULD BE THE BEST THING THAT COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN TO AMERICAN POLITICS.

More information can be found HERE.

From that same site, a list of reasons why NOTA would be a boon to the US of A.

quote:
Why are Voter Consent Ballot Options, such as a permanent, binding "None of the Above" on the ballot, a good idea?

*All legitimate consent requires the ability to withhold consent; "None of the Above" gives the voter the ballot option to withhold consent from an election to office, just as voters can cast a "No" vote on a ballot question.

*Would end the "must hire" elections where voters are often forced to vote for the least unacceptable candidate, the all too familiar "lesser evil."

*A candidate must obtain voter consent to be elected, even if running unopposed.

*Voters would decide the fate of the political parties' choices, instead of the parties deciding the voters' choices.

*It should reduce negative campaigning by encouraging candidates to campaign for their own candidacy rather than against their opponent's candidacy.

*Many voters and non voters, who now register their disapproval of all candidates for an office by not voting, could cast a meaningful vote.

*Provides an effective alternative to the increasing voter practice of writing-in frivolous names, the so-called “Mickey Mouse” option.

*The meaning of elections should become more clear, since voters would no longer be tempted to vote for a presumed losing candidate, with whom they really do not agree, as a protest vote.

*Establishes flexible, voter controlled term limits of one term for every office, as the framers of the U.S. Constitution intended.

*Campaign contributors who give to all candidates to insure "access" would no longer be sure they backed the winner; in general, buying elections should become a more uncertain enterprise.

*Improves checks and balances between voters and political parties, especially needed in jurisdictions with one dominant political party or nearly identical alternatives.

*Political parties would nominate candidates knowing those candidates must be a better choice for voters than "None of the Above."

*Follow-up by-elections are far less costly than electing unacceptable candidates to office.

*Office holders, knowing they face "None of the Above" in the next election, would be encouraged to insure their re-election by focusing more on doing a good job in office and less on attempting to prevent the emergence of an effective opposition candidate.

*When pre-election polls include "None of the Above", the feedback from voters should help guide candidates and parties.

*Even when "None of the Above" does not win or is a non-binding NOTA, the reported NOTA vote would help identify those offices for which voters might be more receptive to new candidates in a future election as well as limits the winner's mandate.

*Provides a permanent option for voters to withhold consent that is independent of expensive and infrequent candidate based "reform" movements.

*Should make public service more attractive by improving the quality of those elected to office.

*Opportunities for election fraud should be reduced because fewer blank votes for an office would be cast.

*Applies to all candidates and parties equally.

*It is a relatively simple, fair, sensible, accomplishable and permanent improvement to our current system, hopefully making for a more democratic and ultimately stronger America.


Now THIS is an idea that I fully intend to stand behind. I have already sent emails to my state reps, and will follow up with snail mail and a phone call to each.

This is a change which could make a HUGE difference in American politics, and is something we as Citizens and Voters could push through if we got behind it.

Zack
Tired of the same ole/same ole in American politics.


"The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life."
~~~Theodore Roosevelt~~~
 
Posts: 4867 | Registered: Tue 18 November 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Set This World Ablaze
Picture of Killswitch_Engage
Posted Hide Post
Reminds of Brewster's Campaign...



Big Grin
 
Posts: 1899 | Registered: Tue 23 October 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post

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Picture of Silent_Surface
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:
Reminds of Brewster's Campaign...



OK..... But do you not see the need for SOMETHING that can change the feeling of helplessness of Americans today?


"The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life."
~~~Theodore Roosevelt~~~
 
Posts: 4867 | Registered: Tue 18 November 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Set This World Ablaze
Picture of Killswitch_Engage
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Silent_Surface:
quote:
Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:
Reminds of Brewster's Campaign...



OK..... But do you not see the need for SOMETHING that can change the feeling of helplessness of Americans today?


Ya sure, but I can't really relate this time around...

For the first time in a while, I'm actually quite happy with both choices, and think either would make a good President. I don't hate or dread either guy, in fact I respect them both for different reasons.
 
Posts: 1899 | Registered: Tue 23 October 2007Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Experienced Member
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Silent_Surface:
How often have you said that you "Voted for the LESSER OF TWO EVILS???

I have said for most of my adult life that we should have another choice.... the ability to choose NONE OF THE ABOVE (NOTA) in any election, where, if NOTA won, a new election would be held, with new candidates. Candidates who ran in the election won by NOTA would be ineligible to run in the new election.

I was amazed to find that people are actually banding together in support of this idea, which, in my opinion, WOULD BE THE BEST THING THAT COULD POSSIBLY HAPPEN TO AMERICAN POLITICS.

More information can be found HERE.

From that same site, a list of reasons why NOTA would be a boon to the US of A.

quote:
Why are Voter Consent Ballot Options, such as a permanent, binding "None of the Above" on the ballot, a good idea?

*All legitimate consent requires the ability to withhold consent; "None of the Above" gives the voter the ballot option to withhold consent from an election to office, just as voters can cast a "No" vote on a ballot question.

*Would end the "must hire" elections where voters are often forced to vote for the least unacceptable candidate, the all too familiar "lesser evil."

*A candidate must obtain voter consent to be elected, even if running unopposed.

*Voters would decide the fate of the political parties' choices, instead of the parties deciding the voters' choices.

*It should reduce negative campaigning by encouraging candidates to campaign for their own candidacy rather than against their opponent's candidacy.

*Many voters and non voters, who now register their disapproval of all candidates for an office by not voting, could cast a meaningful vote.

*Provides an effective alternative to the increasing voter practice of writing-in frivolous names, the so-called “Mickey Mouse” option.

*The meaning of elections should become more clear, since voters would no longer be tempted to vote for a presumed losing candidate, with whom they really do not agree, as a protest vote.

*Establishes flexible, voter controlled term limits of one term for every office, as the framers of the U.S. Constitution intended.

*Campaign contributors who give to all candidates to insure "access" would no longer be sure they backed the winner; in general, buying elections should become a more uncertain enterprise.

*Improves checks and balances between voters and political parties, especially needed in jurisdictions with one dominant political party or nearly identical alternatives.

*Political parties would nominate candidates knowing those candidates must be a better choice for voters than "None of the Above."

*Follow-up by-elections are far less costly than electing unacceptable candidates to office.

*Office holders, knowing they face "None of the Above" in the next election, would be encouraged to insure their re-election by focusing more on doing a good job in office and less on attempting to prevent the emergence of an effective opposition candidate.

*When pre-election polls include "None of the Above", the feedback from voters should help guide candidates and parties.

*Even when "None of the Above" does not win or is a non-binding NOTA, the reported NOTA vote would help identify those offices for which voters might be more receptive to new candidates in a future election as well as limits the winner's mandate.

*Provides a permanent option for voters to withhold consent that is independent of expensive and infrequent candidate based "reform" movements.

*Should make public service more attractive by improving the quality of those elected to office.

*Opportunities for election fraud should be reduced because fewer blank votes for an office would be cast.

*Applies to all candidates and parties equally.

*It is a relatively simple, fair, sensible, accomplishable and permanent improvement to our current system, hopefully making for a more democratic and ultimately stronger America.


Now THIS is an idea that I fully intend to stand behind. I have already sent emails to my state reps, and will follow up with snail mail and a phone call to each.

This is a change which could make a HUGE difference in American politics, and is something we as Citizens and Voters could push through if we got behind it.

Zack
Tired of the same ole/same ole in American politics.


---------------------
Theoretically, the idea has some promise. But it has one major problem - who gets to be in office while we have endless elections of "NOTA"??? See some serious potential for abuse in that system???
 
Posts: 6707 | Registered: Sun 01 June 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Basic Training
Picture of _HAL_9000
Posted Hide Post
Zack, I'm all for anything that doesn't involve 'Butterfly Ballots' and all the ensuing confusion.

Great thread and it gets one thinking. But 'reform', 'transparency' and 'honesty' are foul language in the Halls of Power.

These days only Superman fights for Truth, Justice and the American way. But the 'kryponite' of entrenched bureauocracies, Good Old Boys networks, Lobbyists and powerful corporations tend to stop ALL potential 'supermen'.
 
Posts: 87 | Registered: Sun 29 June 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post

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Picture of Silent_Surface
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by _HAL_9000:
Zack, I'm all for anything that doesn't involve 'Butterfly Ballots' and all the ensuing confusion.

Great thread and it gets one thinking. But 'reform', 'transparency' and 'honesty' are foul language in the Halls of Power.

These days only Superman fights for Truth, Justice and the American way. But the 'kryponite' of entrenched bureauocracies, Good Old Boys networks, Lobbyists and powerful corporations tend to stop ALL potential 'supermen'.


Hal???

Of the stained couch, Hal?????? hmmmm, same avatar......

Could it be..........



As far as the potential for abuse..... IMHO, it would almost eliminate abuse...... and if there were more than one NOTA elections..... is that not preferable to HAVING to elect someone whom you do NOT want in the office?


"The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life."
~~~Theodore Roosevelt~~~
 
Posts: 4867 | Registered: Tue 18 November 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Experienced Member
Picture of foxred03
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:
quote:
Originally posted by Silent_Surface:
quote:
Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:
Reminds of Brewster's Campaign...



OK..... But do you not see the need for SOMETHING that can change the feeling of helplessness of Americans today?


Ya sure, but I can't really relate this time around...

For the first time in a while, I'm actually quite happy with both choices, and think either would make a good President. I don't hate or dread either guy, in fact I respect them both for different reasons.


I feel the same way. I have major problems with both of the cadidates but it is much better than the last few times around.
 
Posts: 3101 | Registered: Thu 02 January 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post

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Picture of Silent_Surface
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by foxred03:
quote:
Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:
quote:
Originally posted by Silent_Surface:
quote:
Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:
Reminds of Brewster's Campaign...



OK..... But do you not see the need for SOMETHING that can change the feeling of helplessness of Americans today?


Ya sure, but I can't really relate this time around...

For the first time in a while, I'm actually quite happy with both choices, and think either would make a good President. I don't hate or dread either guy, in fact I respect them both for different reasons.


I feel the same way. I have major problems with both of the cadidates but it is much better than the last few times around.


But does that not give you pause..... you have major problems with both, but you are willing to vote for one of them......

Would you not rather have a candidate that you could get REALLY EXCITED about?


"The things that will destroy America are prosperity at any price, peace at any price, safety first instead of duty first, the love of soft living and the get rich quick theory of life."
~~~Theodore Roosevelt~~~
 
Posts: 4867 | Registered: Tue 18 November 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Basic Training
Picture of _HAL_9000
Posted Hide Post
I'm ALL for having alternatives. And I didn't mean to come off sounding like a naysayer. Just as long as it doesn't require Jimmy Carter to monitor that process, it's fine by me.

And yes. It's me. Smile

It looks like all the EEEEVIL folded up and went home, so I popped my head up, Gopher Style and decided to re-appear!

 
Posts: 87 | Registered: Sun 29 June 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Member
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Would you not rather have a candidate that you could get REALLY EXCITED about?

I have never had one of those (that I could get REALLY EXCITED about) ... Not even Saint Ronny.

{Shouldn't this be on the elections forum where a recent thread on "Two Reasons not to vote for Obama" got speedily moved?}
 
Posts: 1407 | Registered: Sun 01 June 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Experienced Member
Picture of foxred03
Posted Hide Post
quote:
But does that not give you pause..... you have major problems with both, but you are willing to vote for one of them......

Would you not rather have a candidate that you could get REALLY EXCITED about?



I would but I don't know if that's possible for me. I am very independent and the way the political system is set up today it would be difficult for me to agree with most politicians. I am pro-gun, pro-choice, pro-death penalty, for the separation of church and state, want lower taxes, but think the wealthy are a bit too greedy. You see the problem. Even if I found someone I really liked, the media, the pundits, the smear campaigns would undoubtably bring up enough dirt to mar my image of that person.

In general, I like Obama and McCain better than I liked GW Bush, Kerry, and Gore. If you had posted this four years ago I would have agreed wholeheartedly. I know how it feels to not like either candidate.
 
Posts: 3101 | Registered: Thu 02 January 2003Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
"Scholarly Comedian"
Picture of ipw533
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I'm voting for Cthulhu--I don't believe in voting for the lesser evil, and I intend to be eaten before the rest of you....
 
Posts: 16332 | Registered: Sat 05 May 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Basic Training
Picture of _HAL_9000
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ipw533:
I'm voting for Cthulhu--I don't believe in voting for the lesser evil, and I intend to be eaten before the rest of you....




I'd vote for Cthulhu, too. He's just a nasty squid. Like me!
 
Posts: 87 | Registered: Sun 29 June 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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In my perfect world, I could vote for GEN Wes Clark. Now THERE'S a candidate who could get things done.

Alas, we've got these two second-string players running... *sigh*

A write-in for Bugs Bunny is looking better and better. With liberty and carrots for all...
 
Posts: 829 | Registered: Mon 07 April 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
"Scholarly Comedian"
Picture of ipw533
Posted Hide Post
 
Posts: 16332 | Registered: Sat 05 May 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Whirled_Peas:
In my perfect world, I could vote for GEN Wes Clark. Now THERE'S a candidate who could get things done.

Alas, we've got these two second-string players running... *sigh*

A write-in for Bugs Bunny is looking better and better. With liberty and carrots for all...
LOL. You couldn't pay me enough to vote for "Wes Baby". Walks on the backs of his underlings, then leaves them behind.
 
Posts: 1407 | Registered: Sun 01 June 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Basic Training
Picture of _HAL_9000
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quote:


A write-in for Bugs Bunny is looking better and better. With liberty and carrots for all...


The Wabbit for President. YARHOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEEEE!

You know. I miss that old lagomorph.
 
Posts: 87 | Registered: Sun 29 June 2008Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
"Scholarly Comedian"
Picture of ipw533
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Yeah, I miss him too---the Wabbit for President in 2008, 'cuz we won't take anything seriously until we have city ruins glowing in the dark....
 
Posts: 16332 | Registered: Sat 05 May 2001Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Basic Training
Picture of _HAL_9000
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... The Oval Office. In the Van Down By The River.

Our campaign for him knows no beginning.
 
Posts: 87 | Registered: