I work as a bouncer in Seattle and also operate a service for local bars and clubs, supplying them with the right type of bouncers/doormen for their particular type of venue. I met a guy the other night who claimed to work as a corrections officer. In the course of talking shop he told me that OC that deploys in a gel medium has recently been outlawed. He said that if you hose a subject down with the gel type of OC and they subsequently need to be tased it's possible they'll be electrocuted.

I dunno. I guess I can see how that might be possible but it sounds a little fishy to me. Anyone know if there's any validity to that? I've actually reccommended the gel type to several of my guys since there's less chance of over-spray if it needs to be deployed in a crowded club. I want to get the word out immediately if that type is now against the law (or even if it ISN'T banned but there's a chance someone could get killed because of it).

Hmmmm...I'm not sure about the taser story...
But I'd definitely check with local law enforcement. The laws vary from state to state...

I don't see how electrocution by taser would be any more possible with OC Gel than if you were tasing a subject who was drenched in sweat from physical activities such as dancing in a nightclub.

The gel I believe may have an alcohol base like Purell hand sanitizer. As the gel is drying there are flamable fumes present around the body. The tazing can cause a spark which ignites the vapor causing a fire.

We used a pepper foam, little to no splatter and it left a UV dye on subject.

Actually that supposidly did happen and the PD was sued by the claiment... beyond that the result was the Gel being banned.

Yeah, thanks Dragonflyer; that's what the guy said, that it HAD happened recently and that's what caused the ban.

I don't carry a taser (nor do any of my guys as far as I know). Here's my primary concern: if some guy is being a bonehead IN the club it's highly likely he'll be just as big a bonehead after we usher him out. If he draws the attention of the police there'd be no way for the officers to know the guy had the gel medium on him. If they had to tase him and it DID fry him... I don't want a cop having that on his conscience. Wouldn't be the officers FAULT, of course. But I don't imagine that'd make it any easier to live with.

But what Sgt. Posty says makes sense; the danger would probably be over once it's dry. And you say the foam medium works well when we need to focus on one guy in a crowd? Thanks for the tip...I'm definitely gonna look in to that.

quote:

Originally posted by sgt_posty:
The gel I believe may have an alcohol base like Purell hand sanitizer. As the gel is drying there are flamable fumes present around the body. The tazing can cause a spark which ignites the vapor causing a fire.

FLAME ON, MUTHERF()CKER!

Lots of info at this website;

safetygearhq.com/pepper-spray-information.htm

FYI, that OC foam is brutal. I helped out the local Sheriff's Office jail van one night when a large prisoner broke free from his shackles. (I was a Fed on patrol in the area)

A group of us stood outside the van prepared to wrestle with him. As the Sgt went to open the door, I saw the prisoner had the chains all set to beat us with.

"Spray him." the Sgt said to the Deputy. Looked like the guy got hit with a cream pie. About 20 secs went by and nothing...he slowly wiped it off and I thought, "Oh crap, this is going to S%CK.", but then it hit him.

The guy cried like a baby and put up zero resistence as he begged for aid. After cuffing him, we flushed his face with water and pointed it towards the breeze.

That foam is a very effective tool.

Stay safe,

Don

HA! Now I almost can't wait till I get the opportunity to try that foam out on someone Don! Shouldn't be long. One of the bars I contract to is in the Pioneer Square area, another is in Capitol Hill. Both are chock fulla dirtbags; definitely NOT the kind of people "Frasier" leads you to believe populate Seattle (I'm from Alabama. I couldn't BE more of a fish out of water up here).

My personal favorite OC delivery vehicle is the ASP Palm Defender. Looks just like a kubotan, fits perfectly in the front pocket of my Levi's with a paracord tether hanging out so it's immediately accessible. It's the perfect way to carry pepper spray and there's really not much chance of over spray but I HAVE had it blow back on me when there were a couple fans running. That's why I started carrying gel as a back-up to begin with.

Rebb
I know the areas you are mentioning none to well...
The 'University District', Fremont, Ballard as well as the frat and soroity areas were well-known for their fair share of rowdies.
Queen Anne is no different...

Ya shoulda been in the Pioneer Square area after the 2001 Nisqually 'burp'...and the 'Fish Market'...
Those areas were fooking zoos!

I am relatively new to that area, Hoffy. I've worked around the Hill area for a couple years and just barely over a year in P. Square. I heard there was a serious mess throughout the Pioneer Square bar zone on MLK day several years back but that was was well before my time. It's still a little (ok, a LOT) squirrely down there but the violence doesn't rise to that level anymore. 'Specially since there are now cameras mounted every 15 feet pointed right at the heart of the district (or so I'm told; I can point to 3 of them, I hear there are several more).