quote:

Originally posted by dragonflyer04:
Electing a black President puts race where it should be in this country...jobs should be won by the best trained and experienced workers, not because of race or sex or sexual preferance as has been the case for the past thirty years.

quote:

Originally posted by dragonflyer04:
Electing a black President puts race where it should be in this country...jobs should be won by the best trained and experienced workers, not because of race or sex or sexual preferance as has been the case for the past thirty years.

quote:

Writing for the four dissenting justices, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg complained that the ruling means that New Haven, with a minority population totaling almost 60 percent, “must today be served — as it was in the days of undisguised discrimination — by a fire department in which member of racial and ethnic minorities are rarely seen in command decisions.”

quote:

Originally posted by MightyB:
A good decision. Today one should make it or fail on their own merits.

quote:

Originally posted by mmulder67:
The issues surrounding the specific test administered would appear to be the single most important factor in the lawsuit.
Who picked that particular test to administer and have they used that test in the past?
Why would it favor a specific ethnicity over another if all the employees are supposed to have the same training and education (if required for employment)?

quote:

Writing for the four dissenting justices, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg complained that the ruling means that New Haven, with a minority population totaling almost 60 percent, “must today be served — as it was in the days of undisguised discrimination — by a fire department in which member of racial and ethnic minorities are rarely seen in command decisions.”

The community must be served by those most qualified to do the job.
If the test was administered fairly (and no one is saying it wasn't) then this is simply a case of individuals wanting something they earned and not a case of discrimination against those who didn't score high enough to earn it.
If the city wants a "fairer?" test then the next time they can choose a different test to administer.
BUT....what happens if the different test produces the same results?

quote:

Originally posted by GunnyRet03:

quote:

Originally posted by mmulder67:
The issues surrounding the specific test administered would appear to be the single most important factor in the lawsuit.
Who picked that particular test to administer and have they used that test in the past?
Why would it favor a specific ethnicity over another if all the employees are supposed to have the same training and education (if required for employment)?

quote:

Writing for the four dissenting justices, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg complained that the ruling means that New Haven, with a minority population totaling almost 60 percent, “must today be served — as it was in the days of undisguised discrimination — by a fire department in which member of racial and ethnic minorities are rarely seen in command decisions.”

The community must be served by those most qualified to do the job.
If the test was administered fairly (and no one is saying it wasn't) then this is simply a case of individuals wanting something they earned and not a case of discrimination against those who didn't score high enough to earn it.
If the city wants a "fairer?" test then the next time they can choose a different test to administer.
BUT....what happens if the different test produces the same results?

I believe a Hispanic scored well on that test also and was passed over.

quote:

Originally posted by mmulder67:

quote:

Originally posted by GunnyRet03:

quote:

Originally posted by mmulder67:
The issues surrounding the specific test administered would appear to be the single most important factor in the lawsuit.
Who picked that particular test to administer and have they used that test in the past?
Why would it favor a specific ethnicity over another if all the employees are supposed to have the same training and education (if required for employment)?

quote:

Writing for the four dissenting justices, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg complained that the ruling means that New Haven, with a minority population totaling almost 60 percent, “must today be served — as it was in the days of undisguised discrimination — by a fire department in which member of racial and ethnic minorities are rarely seen in command decisions.”

The community must be served by those most qualified to do the job.
If the test was administered fairly (and no one is saying it wasn't) then this is simply a case of individuals wanting something they earned and not a case of discrimination against those who didn't score high enough to earn it.
If the city wants a "fairer?" test then the next time they can choose a different test to administer.
BUT....what happens if the different test produces the same results?

I believe a Hispanic scored well on that test also and was passed over.

Correct.
Was there a point to your comment?

quote:

Originally posted by Cider33_Alpha:
Interesting decision - especially since the SCOTUS has over-ruled the federal appellate decision that was issued by the current nominee to the SCOTUS, Judge Sotomayor, among the majority!

quote:

Originally posted by GunnyRet03:

quote:

Originally posted by mmulder67:

quote:

Originally posted by GunnyRet03:

quote:

Originally posted by mmulder67:
The issues surrounding the specific test administered would appear to be the single most important factor in the lawsuit.
Who picked that particular test to administer and have they used that test in the past?
Why would it favor a specific ethnicity over another if all the employees are supposed to have the same training and education (if required for employment)?

quote:

Writing for the four dissenting justices, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg complained that the ruling means that New Haven, with a minority population totaling almost 60 percent, “must today be served — as it was in the days of undisguised discrimination — by a fire department in which member of racial and ethnic minorities are rarely seen in command decisions.”

The community must be served by those most qualified to do the job.
If the test was administered fairly (and no one is saying it wasn't) then this is simply a case of individuals wanting something they earned and not a case of discrimination against those who didn't score high enough to earn it.
If the city wants a "fairer?" test then the next time they can choose a different test to administer.
BUT....what happens if the different test produces the same results?

I believe a Hispanic scored well on that test also and was passed over.

Correct.
Was there a point to your comment?

Yeh, it wasnt only white guys. get it.

remember the test punished 'minorities' I guess except for that one.

quote:

Originally posted by mmulder67:

quote:

Originally posted by GunnyRet03:

quote:

Originally posted by mmulder67:

quote:

Originally posted by GunnyRet03:

quote:

Originally posted by mmulder67:
The issues surrounding the specific test administered would appear to be the single most important factor in the lawsuit.
Who picked that particular test to administer and have they used that test in the past?
Why would it favor a specific ethnicity over another if all the employees are supposed to have the same training and education (if required for employment)?

quote:

Writing for the four dissenting justices, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg complained that the ruling means that New Haven, with a minority population totaling almost 60 percent, “must today be served — as it was in the days of undisguised discrimination — by a fire department in which member of racial and ethnic minorities are rarely seen in command decisions.”

The community must be served by those most qualified to do the job.
If the test was administered fairly (and no one is saying it wasn't) then this is simply a case of individuals wanting something they earned and not a case of discrimination against those who didn't score high enough to earn it.
If the city wants a "fairer?" test then the next time they can choose a different test to administer.
BUT....what happens if the different test produces the same results?

I believe a Hispanic scored well on that test also and was passed over.

Correct.
Was there a point to your comment?

Yeh, it wasnt only white guys. get it.

remember the test punished 'minorities' I guess except for that one.

Where did I say anything about "white guys"?
Are you intentionally trying to stir the pot or did you just not read what I posted?
Nowhere did I mention a specific ethinicity.
My point surrounds the test itself and who picked it and what was "wrong with it" and why was it "unfair".
You, on the other hand, have gone straight for the race card....bravo!

quote:

Originally posted by dragonflyer04:
Electing a black President puts race where it should be in this country...jobs should be won by the best trained and experienced workers, not because of race or sex or sexual preferance as has been the case for the past thirty years.

quote:

Originally posted by mmulder67:

quote:

Originally posted by GunnyRet03:

quote:

Originally posted by mmulder67:

quote:

Originally posted by GunnyRet03:

quote:

Originally posted by mmulder67:
The issues surrounding the specific test administered would appear to be the single most important factor in the lawsuit.
Who picked that particular test to administer and have they used that test in the past?
Why would it favor a specific ethnicity over another if all the employees are supposed to have the same training and education (if required for employment)?

quote:

Writing for the four dissenting justices, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg complained that the ruling means that New Haven, with a minority population totaling almost 60 percent, “must today be served — as it was in the days of undisguised discrimination — by a fire department in which member of racial and ethnic minorities are rarely seen in command decisions.”

The community must be served by those most qualified to do the job.
If the test was administered fairly (and no one is saying it wasn't) then this is simply a case of individuals wanting something they earned and not a case of discrimination against those who didn't score high enough to earn it.
If the city wants a "fairer?" test then the next time they can choose a different test to administer.
BUT....what happens if the different test produces the same results?

I believe a Hispanic scored well on that test also and was passed over.

Correct.
Was there a point to your comment?

Yeh, it wasnt only white guys. get it.

remember the test punished 'minorities' I guess except for that one.

Where did I say anything about "white guys"? I was adding to you comment not opposing
Are you intentionally trying to stir the pot or did you just not read what I posted?
Nowhere did I mention a specific ethinicity. I was adding to you comment not opposing
My point surrounds the test itself and who picked it and what was "wrong with it" and why was it "unfair".
You, on the other hand, have gone straight for the race card....bravo!

I was adding to you comment not opposing.

There was nothing wrong with the test. test shouldnt be based on anyones race. I am sure you agree.

quote:

Originally posted by L0A1:

quote:

Originally posted by Cider33_Alpha:
Interesting decision - especially since the SCOTUS has over-ruled the federal appellate decision that was issued by the current nominee to the SCOTUS, Judge Sotomayor, among the majority!

Yep thats 6 out of 7 of her rulings overturned. Starting to see a trend.

quote:

In any case, 60 percent of the cases the Supreme Court has reviewed is not a particularly high number. In any given term, the Supreme Court normally reverses a higher percentage of the cases it hears. During its 2006-2007 term, for instance, the Court reversed or vacated (which, for our purposes here, mean the same thing) 68 percent of the cases before it. The rate was 73.6 percent the previous term.

quote:

Originally posted by jdksfcret:

quote:

Originally posted by L0A1:

quote:

Originally posted by Cider33_Alpha:
Interesting decision - especially since the SCOTUS has over-ruled the federal appellate decision that was issued by the current nominee to the SCOTUS, Judge Sotomayor, among the majority!

Yep thats 6 out of 7 of her rulings overturned. Starting to see a trend.

Citation needed:

Here is mine: http://www.newsweek.com/id/199955

Cases Reviewed by the Supreme Court

• Ricci v. DeStefano 530 F.3d 87 (2008) -- decision pending as of 5/26/2009 ---- reversed 5-4 6/29/2009

• Riverkeeper, Inc. vs. EPA, 475 F.3d 83 (2007) -- reversed 6-3 (Dissenting: Stevens, Souter, Ginsburg)

• Knight vs. Commissioner, 467 F.3d 149 (2006) -- upheld , but reasoning was unanimously faulted

• Dabit vs. Merrill Lynch, 395 F.3d 25 (2005) -- reversed 8-0

• Empire Healthchoice Assurance, Inc. vs. McVeigh, 396 F.3d 136 (2005) -- Upheld 5-4 (Dissenting: Breyer, Kennedy, Souter, Alito)

• Malesko v. Correctional Services Corp., 299 F.3d 374 (2000) -- reversed 5-4 (Dissenting: Stevens, Souter, Ginsburg, Breyer)

• Tasini vs. New York Times, et al, 972 F. Supp. 804 (1997) -- reversed 7-2 (Dissenting: Stevens, Breyer)

reversed = 5

upheld = 2

quote:

In any case, 60 percent of the cases the Supreme Court has reviewed is not a particularly high number. In any given term, the Supreme Court normally reverses a higher percentage of the cases it hears. During its 2006-2007 term, for instance, the Court reversed or vacated (which, for our purposes here, mean the same thing) 68 percent of the cases before it. The rate was 73.6 percent the previous term.

She is doing no worse or no better when the big picture is presented. JMHO of course.

quote:

Originally posted by GunnyRet03:

quote:

Where did I say anything about "white guys"? I was adding to you comment not opposing
Are you intentionally trying to stir the pot or did you just not read what I posted?
Nowhere did I mention a specific ethinicity. I was adding to you comment not opposing
My point surrounds the test itself and who picked it and what was "wrong with it" and why was it "unfair".
You, on the other hand, have gone straight for the race card....bravo!

I was adding to you comment not opposing.

There was nothing wrong with the test. test shouldnt be based on anyones race. I am sure you agree.

quote:

Originally posted by jdksfcret:
Term Overall Lower Court Reversal Rate Circuit Court Reversal Rate


2008 (preliminary through April 2009) 78% 85%

2007 66% 61%


2006 72% 72%


2005 72% 77%


2004 68% 73%


2004-April 2009 71% 73%


http://www.scotuswiki.com/index.php?title=Supreme_Court_Statistics

Still not an unusual reversal rate when compared with the overall tendency of the SCOTUS to reverse 70% of the cases they do look at. Wouldn't you agree???

quote:

Originally posted by L0A1:

quote:

Originally posted by Cider33_Alpha:
Interesting decision - especially since the SCOTUS has over-ruled the federal appellate decision that was issued by the current nominee to the SCOTUS, Judge Sotomayor, among the majority!

Yep thats 6 out of 7 of her rulings overturned. Starting to see a trend.

quote:

Originally posted by jdksfcret:
Term Overall Lower Court Reversal Rate Circuit Court Reversal Rate


2008 (preliminary through April 2009) 78% 85%

2007 66% 61%


2006 72% 72%


2005 72% 77%


2004 68% 73%


2004-April 2009 71% 73%


http://www.scotuswiki.com/index.php?title=Supreme_Court_Statistics

Still not an unusual reversal rate when compared with the overall tendency of the SCOTUS to reverse 70% of the cases they do look at. Wouldn't you agree???

quote:

Alito, in a concurrence signed by Scalia and Thomas, claimed that the city of New Haven's concern about disparate impact was merely a politically motivated decision made by New Haven Mayor John DeStefano Jr. to placate his black supporters.

quote:

Originally posted by GunnyRet03:

quote:

Originally posted by mmulder67:

quote:

Originally posted by GunnyRet03:

quote:

Originally posted by mmulder67:
The issues surrounding the specific test administered would appear to be the single most important factor in the lawsuit.
Who picked that particular test to administer and have they used that test in the past?
Why would it favor a specific ethnicity over another if all the employees are supposed to have the same training and education (if required for employment)?

quote:

Writing for the four dissenting justices, Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg complained that the ruling means that New Haven, with a minority population totaling almost 60 percent, “must today be served — as it was in the days of undisguised discrimination — by a fire department in which member of racial and ethnic minorities are rarely seen in command decisions.”

The community must be served by those most qualified to do the job.
If the test was administered fairly (and no one is saying it wasn't) then this is simply a case of individuals wanting something they earned and not a case of discrimination against those who didn't score high enough to earn it.
If the city wants a "fairer?" test then the next time they can choose a different test to administer.
BUT....what happens if the different test produces the same results?

I believe a Hispanic scored well on that test also and was passed over.

Correct.
Was there a point to your comment?

Yeh, it wasnt only white guys. get it.

remember the test punished 'minorities' I guess except for that one.

quote:

One of those who passed the test had dyslexia but studied well and passed the test. Which sort of shoots the whole 'biased' nonsense to smithereens.

quote:

Originally posted by mmulder67:
As for the test, there has been no definitive proof about the substance of the test in how it would benefit anyone.
If the questions on the test were "biased" to benefit one group over another then the individual(s) who approved that test have some explaining to do.
If the test was weighted on job related situations then someone has some sour grapes to make w(h)ine out of!

quote:

(Justice) Kennedy argued that "the process was open [and] fair" and that the city officials "were careful to ensure broad racial participation in the design of the test itself and its administration."