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Our story begins in the University of Central Florida, a public institution, funded by the state and by student fees. These public funds are being used to support a Catholic church on campus. I'm fine with the idea of having a church on a campus, but I don't think public funds and mandatory student fees should support it.
Anyway, a student at UCF, Webster Cook, who is Catholic, had brought a non-Catholic friend to mass, and who was curious about the Eucharist. Webster was going to bring the eucharist back to his seat, show it to the friend, and then eat it. The young man went up for Communion, took the Eucharist wafer, and began to carry it back to his seat. He was quickly accosted by a church leader, who physically tried to pry the host out of his hand. Webster put it in his mouth to get the woman to stop, but when he went back to his seat, he took it out of his mouth. According to reports, he said that he originally intended to eat it at his seat after he showed his friend what it looked like, but he was so irritated at being physically pushed around that he decided to bring it home with him. Next thing you know, Church leaders are condemning the boy, calling his actions a "hate crime". They said that he was holding it "hostage", and "abusing" it. They're calling for the university to expel him, and for people to make his life miserable. Reports say that he's been physically assaulted once. He's received death threats. Oh, and the church on campus has placed armed guards (UCF employees, not paid by the church) to prevent more "kidnappings". The kid returned it and apologized, but he's still being harassed, still getting threats, and could face expulsion. Article on Fox News Orlando website. A bit more detail from a local paper. Even more details. A professor from another university who defended the boy's behavior is also receiving death threats, and there's a concerted effort by Catholics across the country to have this professor fired. Here's some of the hate mail he's received. There are other articles out there, and I'm trying to separate the opinion blogs from the factual accounts. My opinions: 1. What the kid did was rude, but certainly not a "hate crime". 2. I find the death threats and threats of physical assault to be disgustingly ironic, as they come from a group of people who claim to be so peaceful and compassionate. If a guy assaults the Koran and the Muslims get angry and make death threats, people on this website scream about the violent Muslims. This guy "kidnapped" a cracker, and the Catholics get angry and make death threats. Let's see if the people on this website can judge both religious groups by the same standard. This message has been edited. Last edited by: Whirled_Peas, |
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Banned by admin |
sure why not there are public funds going to islamic schools all of the time...
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I've already said that public funds shouldn't be going to fund ANY religion. People on this website have screamed that public funds shouldn't support Islam, so does that mean that people here will also scream that public funds shouldn't support Catholicism or any sect of Christianity? The other half of that question of whether you could judge both religious groups by the same standards refers to the threats of violence. People here are so happy to scream about the violent Muslims, but willfully ignore acts and threats of violence by Christian sects. Will you condemn the threats of violence by the Catholics, the same way you condemn threats of violence by Muslims? |
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Banned by admin |
but they are so why not the chatloics and christains?? hell islam is getting theirs so why not the others?? |
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Suspended. 17 Oct 08 Fin |
I agree with you 100%. tolerance applies to all, and so does intolerance, regardless of the religion involved. one religion doesnt get castigated while the other gets a pass. good for one = good for all. |
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Member |
The list of activities funded by student fees at our local public university that I find objectionable goes beyond religious acticities. If I don't like something else they've elected to fund should I protest it? |
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suspended until member contacts moderator Mainedawg Moderator |
The difference is, that our society must show tolerance to everyone, except Christians, white folks and conservatives. There's open season on them. You can pretty much say or do anything you want to them without reprisal. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
 Holy Hyperbole, Batman!  It is not our belief or disbelief that can make or unmake the fact. ~ Thomas Paine |
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I'd rather be knitting. |
I seem to be missing something in the way of information. Is there a good source on the law of the Eucharist that can help explain some of the issues here?
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60 day suspension for Verbal/disruptive posts attacking the integrity of US military. 4/19/2009 by OldArmyLove |
Because Catholics believe that Eucharist wafers, after being consecrated, literally become the body of Christ, you can see why they're mad about it. |
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"The day is wasted in which you learn nothing" |
I'm not catholic but am a student of spirituality.
I agree WP, castigating (and worse) this kid gives, not only those church members a black eye, but the whole Christian family. Granted, there are traditional behaviors established over the years and even adopted doctrine and laws to be considered. The nature of Man includes curiosity. The kid's friend was curious, the friend is wanting to be helpful. Once the priest consecrated the "body of Christ" and gives it to the recipient, it is his to either accept or not, immediately or later. Just like "salvation", Freely offered and just as freely accepted or rejected. No skin off God's nose, so to speak. I would not want to be a part of that particular community and AM not, thank God. Oh, and to the OP, absolutely, especially when it comes to "church behavior", one standard, universally applied. The religious (said lightly) group in need of righteous judgement is all those in the group of Catholic pretenders whose actions bring shame to that church. |
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Highly Experienced Member Ex-Moderator, Fired For Cause |
As a fringe-Catholic (sort of a CINO: more than an Episcopalian, less than a Catholic), I can understand the church's annoyance.
Beyond that, they move into the intolerance territory. They have NO business being subsidized by public funds on a public university campus. What does the local diocese have to say about all this? If the diocese is accepting public money to build/maintain this particular church, then they are clearly in the WRONG. Intolerance Avenue is not a one-way street. |
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Sarcastic Member |
But they don't like being reminded that that makes them cannables. |
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I'd rather be knitting. |
I still don't get it. Wouldn't it have made more sense for Cook to have a word with a priest or someone beforehand, and explain that he was bringing a non-Catholic friend, and that he'd want the friend to see the host? Sorry about the questions, I'm just hoping to wrap my mind around this. Unlike some I could name, I'd prefer to ask questions instead of leaping to conclusions with a minimum of knowledge and an excess of umbrage. |
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Experienced Member |
Almost correct. The host is blessed by the priest just before communion. It is more than just a "cracker" as our thread starter believes. Anyone who is curious about them can have one before they are blessed at Mass. All the kid had to do was a little investigation, ask a few questions. "You'd better be able to sandpaper a Bobcat's butt in a phone booth if you want some of this. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Even better, he could have simply brought his friend back to the rectory and shown him an unconsecrated host, which is little more than a flat circle of unleavened bread. While I think that any Catholic who sends a death threat isn't much of a Catholic, I know that there are moron fanatics in every crowd. You know that look a woman gets when she wants sex? Neither do I. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Whoops - didn't see your post before I replied. Spot on. You know that look a woman gets when she wants sex? Neither do I. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
What does this have to do with the topic??? |
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Highly Experienced Member |
The OP is asking for a comparison of Catholicism and Islam. You know that look a woman gets when she wants sex? Neither do I. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
No, I cannot. It is ridiculous. This kind of crap only demonstrates the intolerance and extremes that ALL religions demonstrate on occasion. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Where do you see a request for comparison prior to this comment? Looks more like a typical outlaw smoke screen without replying to the topic thread... |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Interesting that you slam the entire religion based on the supposed actions of a few idiots. You know that look a woman gets when she wants sex? Neither do I. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
You know that look a woman gets when she wants sex? Neither do I. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
There are more than a, "few," lunatics driving religions... And, I am still looking for the Muslim connection to this story... It looks more like folks who cannot justify this Christian idiocy are instead trying to point to Islamic idiocy as justification...is that what you are trying to do?? stupid is stupid...and, obviously, radical Muslims do not have the market cornered in stupid radicalism. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
reaching... |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Not at all - I'm able to look at morons and loony-tunes and identify them as such. It looks to me like you're trying to use a few idiots to justify your attack on an entire faith - is that what YOU are trying to do? You know that look a woman gets when she wants sex? Neither do I. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
blind faith is idiocy... more and more religions are being defined by these same morons and loony-tunes...and the, "sane," are remaining silent. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Nice debating tactic you have there. Let me post a slightly larger portion of the OP since you won't go back and look. I'll even italicize to make it easier:
Even though I don't agree with him all the time, Outlaw wasn't the first person to bring up Islam. You know that look a woman gets when she wants sex? Neither do I. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
his was the first reply, and his comment concerned funding religions which was not even close to the topic theme...typical outlaw.  |
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60 day suspension for Verbal/disruptive posts attacking the integrity of US military. 4/19/2009 by OldArmyLove |
Isn't that what I said? They're wafers until they're consecrated by the priest, at which point they become the flesh of Jesus Christ. |
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