My son and his best friend just graduated from BCT and AIT (I think they still call it AIT) from Artillery in the National Guard. My son and his friend are both in the same unit but different battalions, my son in a combat MOS his friend in a support MOS. His friend has already received orders for a deployment to A Stan but is being reclassed as an 11B. I think I am pretty in tune with whats going on around the world and the state of our forces but are we really that thin that we are reclassing pencil pushers (I dont mean that in a bad way...hell I was a pencil pusher for a while) 2 weeks out of AIT to infantryman???
What do you think.

Chances are a contrator is holding down that support function the friend was trained to do. Making big money with even more of the high expense hidden.

The Army fulfilled its side of the contract with his training.

Unless there is a draft for manpower every swinging click is available for line duty.

I hope he at least gets assigned to a squad with some old hands to help him stay alive and learn.

I'm not sure, but there seems to be several holes in the stories that the boys may not be telling you.

1. Is the kid actually being reclassed 11B, or is being assigned to a NG Infantry unit being shipped over? What "pencil pushing" MOS was he in, and what is the need for it in his unit?

2. If they are NG, they should have attended both Basic and AIT (yep, still called that although BCT and AIT = IET) at an Active Duty post. FT. Sill for artillary.

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Originally posted by transport1:
I'm not sure, but there seems to be several holes in the stories that the boys may not be telling you.

1. Is the kid actually being reclassed 11B, or is being assigned to a NG Infantry unit being shipped over? What "pencil pushing" MOS was he in, and what is the need for it in his unit?

2. If they are NG, they should have attended both Basic and AIT (yep, still called that although BCT and AIT = IET) at an Active Duty post. FT. Sill for artillary.

My thoughts too, he was trained as a personnel clerk of some type at Ft Jackson I believe, however they both attended BCT at Ft Sill. I asked and he will retain his original MOS but is going to attend some type of infantry training at Bragg. I know a lot of artillery people in Illinois as well as other states are being trained to do MP work abroad, this may be what he is doing but he was told he was going over as an 11B.

quote:

Originally posted by anoldnotboldrecondo:
Chances are a contrator is holding down that support function the friend was trained to do. Making big money with even more of the high expense hidden.

The Army fulfilled its side of the contract with his training.

Unless there is a draft for manpower every swinging click is available for line duty.

I hope he at least gets assigned to a squad with some old hands to help him stay alive and learn.

I hear you, "Needs of the service in time of war" and I also pray he gets assigned to a squared away squad leader who will train him right and get him home.

quote:

Originally posted by spcfcs:
My son and his best friend just graduated from BCT and AIT (I think they still call it AIT) from Artillery in the National Guard. My son and his friend are both in the same unit but different battalions, my son in a combat MOS his friend in a support MOS. His friend has already received orders for a deployment to A Stan but is being reclassed as an 11B. I think I am pretty in tune with whats going on around the world and the state of our forces but are we really that thin that we are reclassing pencil pushers (I dont mean that in a bad way...hell I was a pencil pusher for a while) 2 weeks out of AIT to infantryman???
What do you think.

It is not uncommon that units get redesignated. I have seen artillery units turned into MP units. I am sure they did not cherry pick this solder and go to make him 11B, it was just the unit he was in.

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Originally posted by Tomcatt:

quote:

Originally posted by spcfcs:
My son and his best friend just graduated from BCT and AIT (I think they still call it AIT) from Artillery in the National Guard. My son and his friend are both in the same unit but different battalions, my son in a combat MOS his friend in a support MOS. His friend has already received orders for a deployment to A Stan but is being reclassed as an 11B. I think I am pretty in tune with whats going on around the world and the state of our forces but are we really that thin that we are reclassing pencil pushers (I dont mean that in a bad way...hell I was a pencil pusher for a while) 2 weeks out of AIT to infantryman???
What do you think.

It is not uncommon that units get redesignated. I have seen artillery units turned into MP units. I am sure they did not cherry pick this solder and go to make him 11B, it was just the unit he was in.

If I gave that impression, then my mistake, I'm not saying he was "cherrypicked" most of his battery is going. My son is in a differnt battery but in the same unit. The unit is not being turned into an MP unit, I believe they are just filling a shortage of needed infantryman.

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The unit is not being turned into an MP unit, I believe they are just filling a shortage of needed infantryman.

He's not an infantryman, he's a bullet catcher. Maybe in the Marines everyone is a rifleman first but not in the US Army.

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Originally posted by Opfor6:

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The unit is not being turned into an MP unit, I believe they are just filling a shortage of needed infantryman.

He's not an infantryman, he's a bullet catcher. Maybe in the Marines everyone is a rifleman first but not in the US Army.

What the hell kind of comment is that...I was always taught when I was in that first and foremost we were soldiers capable of being called at anytime to fill the gap and fight. I'm not overly sensitive or anything but I take exception to you calling this young soldier nothing more than a "bullet catcher"

Feh. Military folks that can't spell artillery.

Bah, humbug.

quote:

Originally posted by SSgtRobertMorris:
Feh. Military folks that can't spell artillery.

Bah, humbug.

Thats your contribution to the conversation??

quote:

Originally posted by spcfcs:

quote:

Originally posted by Tomcatt:

quote:

Originally posted by spcfcs:
My son and his best friend just graduated from BCT and AIT (I think they still call it AIT) from Artillery in the National Guard. My son and his friend are both in the same unit but different battalions, my son in a combat MOS his friend in a support MOS. His friend has already received orders for a deployment to A Stan but is being reclassed as an 11B. I think I am pretty in tune with whats going on around the world and the state of our forces but are we really that thin that we are reclassing pencil pushers (I dont mean that in a bad way...hell I was a pencil pusher for a while) 2 weeks out of AIT to infantryman???
What do you think.

It is not uncommon that units get redesignated. I have seen artillery units turned into MP units. I am sure they did not cherry pick this solder and go to make him 11B, it was just the unit he was in.

If I gave that impression, then my mistake, I'm not saying he was "cherrypicked" most of his battery is going. My son is in a differnt battery but in the same unit. The unit is not being turned into an MP unit, I believe they are just filling a shortage of needed infantryman.

Is the unit being reorganized as an infantry unit or are the members of the batter being reclassed and then spread to fill in holes?

quote:

Originally posted by SSgtRobertMorris:
Feh. Military folks that can't spell artillery.

Bah, humbug.

Well the net nanny wont let us say cannon cockers anymore.

Edit: wow it will again!

Sorry you take exception spcfcs but I stand by my statement.

If you haven't turned Blue you ain't an Infantryman. In fact if he hasn't received combat training he is a detriment to what ever unit he is assigned to. Some rinky dinky little "some type of infantry training" isn't going to cut it unless it is AIT training.

Being an Infantryman is not some easy azz thing that any dummy can do. It takes training and conditioning.

Your son's buddy is probably going to assigned to the orderly room or supply in an Infantry unit. Maybe end up the First Sergeant's driver but I really doubt that he is going on patrols and combat missions.

The crossed rifles in USMC rank insignia aren't just there for decoration. We go where the Marine Corps puts us.

I guess my response is: So what? The Army put him where they needed him.

Everyone who enlisted in the last, oh say, seven YEARS or so should know that the possibility of becoming a grunt is very real. They shouldn't join if they can't handle that. And as a reference to another thread, they should all also know that they are signing up for an 8 year obligation, and if they can't handle THAT they should pass on by the recruiter's office.

*******s

They still have problems.

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Originally posted by Tomcatt:

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Originally posted by spcfcs:

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Originally posted by Tomcatt:

quote:

Originally posted by spcfcs:
My son and his best friend just graduated from BCT and AIT (I think they still call it AIT) from Artillery in the National Guard. My son and his friend are both in the same unit but different battalions, my son in a combat MOS his friend in a support MOS. His friend has already received orders for a deployment to A Stan but is being reclassed as an 11B. I think I am pretty in tune with whats going on around the world and the state of our forces but are we really that thin that we are reclassing pencil pushers (I dont mean that in a bad way...hell I was a pencil pusher for a while) 2 weeks out of AIT to infantryman???
What do you think.

It is not uncommon that units get redesignated. I have seen artillery units turned into MP units. I am sure they did not cherry pick this solder and go to make him 11B, it was just the unit he was in.

If I gave that impression, then my mistake, I'm not saying he was "cherrypicked" most of his battery is going. My son is in a differnt battery but in the same unit. The unit is not being turned into an MP unit, I believe they are just filling a shortage of needed infantryman.

Is the unit being reorganized as an infantry unit or are the members of the batter being reclassed and then spread to fill in holes?

I will getter more detailed info soon, but the way it was explained to me thus far is that they were sending the troops through an infantry type training course at Bragg and sending them over, but as I said, I will find out more soon. For obvious reasons it is tough to get information about a units actions concerning something like this from just "googling" it.

quote:

Originally posted by Opfor6:
Sorry you take exception spcfcs but I stand by my statement.

If you haven't turned Blue you ain't an Infantryman. In fact if he hasn't received combat training he is a detriment to what ever unit he is assigned to. Some rinky dinky little "some type of infantry training" isn't going to cut it unless it is AIT training.

Being an Infantryman is not some easy azz thing that any dummy can do. It takes training and conditioning.

Your son's buddy is probably going to assigned to the orderly room or supply in an Infantry unit. Maybe end up the First Sergeant's driver but I really doubt that he is going on patrols and combat missions.

I agree with you completely in regards to the skill level it requires to be a good infantryman, but It would not surprise me a bit to see him sent out on those patrols. the military is stretched too thin, they need troops to fill these spots.

quote:

Originally posted by SSgtRobertMorris:
The crossed rifles in USMC rank insignia aren't just there for decoration. We go where the Marine Corps puts us.

I guess my response is: So what? The Army put him where they needed him.

Everyone who enlisted in the last, oh say, seven YEARS or so should know that the possibility of becoming a grunt is very real. They shouldn't join if they can't handle that. And as a reference to another thread, they should all also know that they are signing up for an 8 year obligation, and if they can't handle THAT they should pass on by the recruiter's office.

This is getting off topic...nobody said anything about this soldier not being able to handle it, hell he hasnt complained about it, the point of this thread was that I was surprised that they would retrain him 2 weeks out of training.

quote:

Originally posted by Opfor6:
Sorry you take exception spcfcs but I stand by my statement.

If you haven't turned Blue you ain't an Infantryman. In fact if he hasn't received combat training he is a detriment to what ever unit he is assigned to. Some rinky dinky little "some type of infantry training" isn't going to cut it unless it is AIT training.

Being an Infantryman is not some easy azz thing that any dummy can do. It takes training and conditioning.

Your son's buddy is probably going to assigned to the orderly room or supply in an Infantry unit. Maybe end up the First Sergeant's driver but I really doubt that he is going on patrols and combat missions.

So you missed where he was being sent to Ft Bragg for training?

quote:

I agree with you completely in regards to the skill level it requires to be a good infantryman, but It would not surprise me a bit to see him sent out on those patrols. the military is stretched too thin, they need troops to fill these spots.

The Army has been using so-called "pogues" for combat missions in Iraq since the beginning of the occupation/rebuilding phase. Females, admin clerks, supply sergeants, finance soldiers, cooks, etc. are all doing things like FOB security, presence patrols, QRF, route clearing, convoy escort, etc.

The Army supposedly started moving toward a Marine-style "rifleman-first" attitude in its BCT program shortly after the beginning of OEF. I'm 11B myself, so I don't know if that's true or not.

I do know what I saw in Iraq, though, and that was exactly what I stated in the first paragraph. Some of them all-female gun-truck crews were better than some of the males. Convoy security was horrific though, the non-infantry personnel couldn't shoot, move and communicate well when spread out between all those civilian vehicles, and the long-routes tended to wear alot of the pogue gunners down. Route-clearance was a mixed-bag - the sapper units were the only ones that really did it right. Don't know about patrols, cordon-and-searches, and stuff like that 'cuz I was with all 11-Boos (add medic) when doing those (I read a story in Stars and Stripes about the Marine Lionesses doing squad assaults and kicking much butt, but never saw them....maybe because they're ninjas?).

As far as being spread thin, I can tell you that, before the surge at least, nearly all units I worked in and with were severely undermanned. My unit, in particular, had to conduct patrols oftentimes without dismounts.

Anywho, that's the new face of the American fighter, part equal opportunity, part lack of resources.

In 22 years I have always been in undermanned units. average tank crews were more often 3 not 4 members. both active duty and RF 80% seemed about the norm, some higher some lower.

Of course personnel shortages are nothing new, but the troop-to-task ratio my guys experienced in Iraq did seem a bit extreme - platoon-sized elements guarding spaces that would normally require an entire battalion, and motorized patrols without dismounts presents a very dangerous situation - kidnappings even occur as a result.

quote:

Originally posted by Vesuvius:
Of course personnel shortages are nothing new, but the troop-to-task ratio my guys experienced in Iraq did seem a bit extreme - platoon-sized elements guarding spaces that would normally require an entire battalion, and motorized patrols without dismounts presents a very dangerous situation - kidnappings even occur as a result.

I do agree with that. I was not one of the ones who tried so hard to stop the raise troop levels when they were discussing the Surge

Yea, I even thought the additional surge troops were too few, but Gen. Petraeus knows what he's doing.

As it's always been.......everybody is basically Infantry.

Wow, all this bit*h'ing about Army soldiers being sent into combat and no one is even broaching the subject of other SERVICES being utilized to fill gaps in the Army's manpower shortage issues....
To the OP: I hope your son and his friend stay safe and sound.

quote:

Originally posted by Vesuvius:
Yea, I even thought the additional surge troops were too few, but Gen. Petraeus knows what he's doing.

I still wish we had gone in with 250K rather than 150K. Yes the invasion only needed 150K but the aftermath needed more.

quote:

Wow, all this bit*h'ing about Army soldiers being sent into combat and no one is even broaching the subject of other SERVICES being utilized to fill gaps in the Army's manpower shortage issues....

Good point. Saw a few AF doing combat missions with Army units, mostly convoy security.