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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Point-Counterpoint Collapse of Mac and Mae?|
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Experienced Member |
Thanks republicans for this economy. Thanks to all of you who voted for bush. You all have alot to apologise for. I am tired of conservatives trying to run anything other than toilet. The biggest banking collapse in the history of this nation. WTF over!!!
http://money.cnn.com/2008/07/13/news/economy/fannie_fre...stversion=2008071318 |
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Who is taking out all these inflated home loans without the means to pay that is breaking these banks - Bush or you?? Just remember, when you point a finger at someone, three more fingers are pointed back at the person just as much at fault - YOU!! Wandering and Wondering |
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Experienced Member |
THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING! What a load of BS. Can you show me anywhere that shows them in collapse? all I have seen is investor panic and stock sell off. Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., praised Paulson's plan. "While Fannie and Freddie still have solid fundamentals, it will be reassuring to investors, bondholders and mortgage-holders that the federal government will be behind these agencies should it be needed," he said. "The Treasury's plan is surgical and carefully thought out and will maximize confidence in Fannie and Freddie while minimizing potential costs to U.S. taxpayers." "What's important are facts - and the facts are that Fannie and Freddie are in sound situation," Dodd said on CNN's Late Edition on Sunday before the announcements by Treasury and the Fed. "They have more than adequate capital. They're in good shape." "Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac play a central role in our housing finance system and must continue to do so in their current form as shareholder-owned companies," Paulson said. "Their support for the housing market is particularly important as we work through the current housing correction," he added. "The market has its sights set on Fannie and Freddie," said Richard Yamarone, chief economist at Argus Research in New York. "With them in the target zone, the Fed and Treasury felt they had to act. [The agencies'] plan is being conducted to contain investors' fears from spreading to the rest of the market." Forget the dog, Beware of Owner |
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Experienced Member |
What a load of crap. I still remember when the Fed made the statement that the housing crisis had been contained. That was several months ago. Since then we have had the failure of IndyMac and the bailout of the two largest mortgage backers in the country. The Fed isn't even supposed to do these sorts of things. What are they going to do to curb inflation now? If they raise interest rates they have all but assured the need to draw on taxpayer dollars. The Fed doesn't have a clue how to contain this. They will massage your ears leading up to the election of course. But its all hot air. Watch for Washington Mutual and Wachovia. They are both teatering on collapse and will probably be the next two to be taken over by the FDIC. |
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Where are the Carriers? |
Are they going to take the bail-out from my taxes or should i just write a check?
Who should I make it out to and what is their address? "Thank you, for your support." - Bartles & Jaymes |
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Experienced Member |
National Bank of China. |
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Experienced Member |
Who was in a greater position of financial knowledge to judge whether those loans should be made, and who chose to approve those loans? On the one hand you have desparate people hoping to live the American dream, on the other hand you have rampant greed. Who is the more guilty party? |
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Member |
Once upon a time there were strict regulations, strong oversights.
Where oh where did they go? Now we have the largest monopolies in the histroy of the world. How did that happen? |
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"The day is wasted in which you learn nothing" |
How is it that the precepts of capitalism are fine for me but not for "them"? Sink or swim, I say. I've bobbed up and down several times since the beginning. That's life. We'll get by with or without "them"...and be the stronger for it. If we let nature take her course.
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Experienced Member |
I thought this Blog on the issue was kinda interesting.
Src Maybe a bit over blown. Maybe not. Its hard to tell on this one because no one can come out and say it like it is without creating a panic that will ensure it occurs. (IndyMac as an example).. |
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. |
The founders warned us on the power of centralized banking.
History always repeats for the ignorant. Only Ron Paul was speaking the truth, just as he has been for the last 20+ years. "All of the perplexities, confusion, and distress in America arises, not from the defects of the Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation." -- John Adams, Founding Father "History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance." - President James Madison "You are a den of vipers and thieves and I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out. If Congress has the right to issue paper money, it was given them to be used by themselves, and not to be delegated to individuals or corporations.." -- Andrew Jackson's address to Congress 1829 "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies." - Thomas Jefferson. "If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation then by deflation, the banks and the corporations will grow up around them, will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs." -Thomas Jefferson, The Debate Over The Recharter Of The Bank Bill, (1809). This prophesy has come true. |
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Experienced Member |
I find it interesting that the current American administration is getting all the blame for this. Of course he has major influence over things in this country. But this issue is not an American only issue. The housing crisis is occuring all over the industrialized world.
There is a reason for it. And politics may have a part in that. But it is not the lack of regulation that is behind this. Why is it that it is so much worse here than in other parts of the world? Because we Americans over consume more so then any other part of the world. Look at our oil use as an example. 300 million people consume 25% of total world oil supply. And its not just oil. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
I see stories all the time about people who have lost their houses, but it always seems to be those who are using very "iffy" judgment.
One gal I read about had a salary of around $30,000/yr., but she bought a house for about $450,000???  I don't see why you wouldn't expect to have problems if your math skills and your.... well, just plain horse sense, aren't any better than that. If I did that I wouldn't expect to be able to keep my house either. Don't mean that in a smart alec way. I'm all for having a home, but you can't just do anything you want to do, and expect it all to turn out well for you. |
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We have let the foxes (int'l bankers) guard the public trust.
They hate freedom, and the best way to destroy a couintry is not through a military campaign, but by breaking the people financially. We will soon see runaway inflation which is a by-product of mass producing currency. The American public has been fat, drunk, and stupid for far too long and the enemy is now at the gate. |
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Experienced Member |
Its not just those who bought bigger than their paychecks could support. It includes lower income families who are watching their disposable income evaporate with higher gas prices, food prices, medical insurance prices, and heating/cooling prices as well. As their spending shifts to other necessities mortgages become more and more difficult to maintian at almost any level. It is also the builders who took out loans to build suburbia that no one is buying. Unsold houses are common. It is also the auto dealers who sold trucks and SUVs to people who found themselves unable to unload them and simply walked away from the loan. Or the dealers themselves stuck holding a bunch of very expensive inventory they can't sell. It is people who were very secure until the down turn started creating layoffs. And we will be adding larger and larger numbers to the list as time goes by if price inflation in the commodities we all depend on doesn't get under control. |
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Experienced Member |
I went with the article he provided, and his inference that they were collapsing. Everything in the article points them both being strong, except for the investors selling off stock. It seems the fed wants to make sure they stay in their position to keep homes selling. I do not see any indication that the government had anything to do with the rise and then fall of home prices. I saw this coming in the 90's when the tech bubble burst and investors jumped ship and headed for real estate, then they caused a bubble there. I agree that banks got greedy too and in bad judgement jumped on the flipping bandwagon. Forget the dog, Beware of Owner |
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Experienced Member |
Not going to argue that. The Fed is to blame only in so much as they like the rest of America live off of credit. Way beyond their means. Doesn't change the fact that our financial system is in deep trouble and there isn't much our Fed can do to stop it. The Fed doesn't even know what to do or how bad it is. Their story changes every other day. |
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Member |
Are you at the point yet to support nationalizaton of energy? Transportation? Medical Care? I see no other way at this point. |
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Experienced Member |
Nope! But I have finally gotten to the mental state necessary to make major lifestyle changes. I think the major difference between you and me is that you see no other way. I see no way at all.. At least not until the American people stop talking like you and start talking about taking personal responsibility for themselves and their own lives. The change begins with us. It can not succeed without us. But we don't seem willing to make any changes other than to give up our freedom to the government in exchange for our lives. Government has never really made any issue better. They are very good however at making non-issues issues. This message has been edited. Last edited by: floersh, |
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Are you sir, an agent of disinformation and propaganda? The goal of evil is to end freedom in America, and welcome in the new world order, in which they (int'l bankers) are the masters of the planet. I'd rather be dead than see the "nationalization" of America's resources and citizentry. The Lamb is coming again to rid this beautiful planet of those who do not believe and those that are perpetrating the greatest evil upon mankind (slavery). May God have mercy on our souls! |
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Member |
It was pointed out in another thread that Iraq will pay us back for liberating them from their oil profits. With that kind of dough the Fed should be able to accomplish anything.  |
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Experienced Member |
Huhhh.. Like I said. Until people get their heads out of their butz there is nothing that can be done. This is going to change our way of life one way or another. What direction it will take and how bad it is going to be is entirely up to us. But the longer we try and hold on to the past the harder its going to be. And there is a very real possibility of government tyranny if we don't watch our step. Tyranny always comes into power when things are hard. And while it may not be too hard for some now. The next 8 to 12 months will change that for most. |
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Member |
This is where I get on the train with the gun protection folks. We are the best armed civilian population on earth. We may well have to use this to prevent tryanny one day. The trick will be for our people to recognize the yolk before it gets strapped on to tight. My bigest concern is that so many, we vets especially, accept authority too easily. |
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Experienced Member |
Nationalization of our financial sector, our energy sector, health care, etc is putting the yolk around your neck and cinching it tighter. Before long you and I and every other American will have zero control over our own lives but will be dependant on the government for everything. I personally would rather watch the system collapse and take my chances with the would be dictators that would likely come afterward then to hand the dictator everything on a silver platter willingly! |
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Member |
I lived through the 60's. Mind I was just home from Vietnam in 67, hell bent on not being at best a HS dropout. I was focused on myself, but our people proved they were willing to fight and die against what they precived as oppression here.
From simply demonstrating and facing cops or the National Guard to the Black Panthers we wear the yolk unwillingly. I believe there will always be freedom in this country and that we are willing to kill and die to have it at home. 'Molly McQuires'! |
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Experienced Member |
We are willing to kill and die for freedom but are we willing to sacrifice the easy life for it? I'd hope so. But I see soooo many willing to give up their freedom willingly. Be it because of high gas prices, the threat of terrorists, threat of criminal gangs, drugs, or other. |
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Experienced Member |
Back on topic.. Seems investors are wise to the problem and know the Fed bailout means little to nothing:
Src I hate to agree with Soros ever.. But he is right.. |
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Experienced Member |
I asked the question if FDIC could cover its liabilities. Apparently, they have $56 billion to cover failed bank deposits. They are spending around $8 billion on IndyMac. So they now have $48 billion for the next several banks.
I guess in this game it is better to have your money in a bank that fails quickly rather than slowly.. |
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Experienced Member |
You guys are gonna love this one:
Src This relevation should make every tax payer ****ed. |
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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Point-Counterpoint Collapse of Mac and Mae?
