http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080610/D917H4GG1.html

WASHINGTON (AP) - Saved by Senate Republicans, big oil companies dodged an attempt Tuesday to slap them with a windfall profits tax and take away billions of dollars in tax breaks in response to the record gasoline prices that have the nation fuming.

GOP senators shoved aside the Democratic proposal, arguing that punishing Big Oil won't do a thing to lower the $4-a-gallon-price of gasoline that is sending economic waves across the country. High prices at the pump are threatening everything from summer vacations to Meals on Wheels deliveries to the elderly.

The Democratic energy package would have imposed a 25 percent tax on any "unreasonable" profits of the five largest U.S. oil companies, which together made $36 billion during the first three months of the year. It also would have given the government more power to address oil market speculation, opened the way for antitrust actions against countries belonging to the OPEC oil cartel, and made energy price gouging a federal crime.

"Americans are furious about what's going on," declared Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D. He said they want Congress to do something about oil company profits and the "orgy of speculation" on oil markets.



Senate Republicans....F you. You deserve to lose to the Demos for pulling stunts like this. While it won't lower gas prices, it will help out in taxes. We can pass a tobacco tax that hits the consumer very hard, saying it's for their own good. Why the hell can't we do the same to big oil. It's for their own good. I'm of the opinion our government should be for the people, by the people. Time to do away with this crap two party system. Special interest has too big of a hold on Washington. It's time for the man to pay, and the little guy to get his dues.

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Originally posted by Fighterpilotmafia:

Are you proposing a workers revolution?

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It also would have given the government more power to address oil market speculation, opened the way for antitrust actions against countries belonging to the OPEC oil cartel, and made energy price gouging a federal crime.

I'm onboard with all that, really - especially the need to get a grip on these frigging speculators who are driving prices up. But the 25% tax would just get passed on to us.

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Originally posted by SurfaceDog:
But the 25% tax would just get passed on to us.

Just how do you suppose that would happen?

Hell no. Che Guer(retard) sucks monkey ***. No revolution, unless it's one of taxation and speculators being driven under.

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Originally posted by SATCOM_VET:

Just how do you suppose that would happen?

I mean, if the oil companies raise prices, that would just mean more revenue for us...the whole point of the tax.

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Originally posted by SATCOM_VET:

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Originally posted by SATCOM_VET:

Just how do you suppose that would happen?

I mean, if the oil companies raise prices, that would just mean more revenue for us...the whole point of the tax.

They'd move their corporate head quarters offshore and start selling more of their product overseas..

They'd raise their middle finger and congress would be powerless to do anything about it. Of course all of us would find very little fuel when we pulled into the gas station..

If you tax windfall profits.....without nationalizing the entire industry.....will that RAISE or LOWER the costs of gasoliine and will it INCREASE or DECREASE the product amounts available?

I feel it would raise the price and the supply would stay the same.

But, if we're sucking 50 billion a year from big oil, you gotta believe money given to the right people would turn gasoline on it's ear. We'd have new tech that would make your balls spin.

Eyeballs, of course.

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Originally posted by floersh:

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Originally posted by SATCOM_VET:

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Originally posted by SATCOM_VET:

Just how do you suppose that would happen?

They'd move their corporate head quarters offshore and start selling more of their product overseas..

They'd raise their middle finger and congress would be powerless to do anything about it. Of course all of us would find very little fuel when we pulled into the gas station..

I mean, if the oil companies raise prices, that would just mean more revenue for us...the whole point of the tax.

I'm not up to date, but Last year Exxon had revenue of 160 Billion, and Profit of 40 billion. So are you suggesting that if we tax that profit, they will raise prices to get it back?

Is there some inherenent law in Capitalism that if you don't make your 25 percent profit, you are obligated to raise prices?

And who does the oil in America actually belong to? I believe it belongs to, "We the People," and the government that represents us, gave them the mineral rights to this oil at pennies for the barrel.

And it's the government of We the People who protect their holdings abroad.

Let them move off shore - Nationalise the damn oil companies!

Dave

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Originally posted by Fighterpilotmafia:
I feel it would raise the price and the supply would stay the same.

But, if we're sucking 50 billion a year from big oil, you gotta believe money given to the right people would turn gasoline on it's ear. We'd have new tech that would make your balls spin.

Eyeballs, of course.

We already suck $50 billion off of oil. Probably much more if you include state taxes. Taxing windfall profits would effect both supply and cost.

The only oil these companies would sell in the united states was oil pumped from american ol fields. The rest would never make it to our shores.

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Originally posted by Fighterpilotmafia:
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080610/D917H4GG1.html

WASHINGTON (AP) - Saved by Senate Republicans, big oil companies dodged an attempt Tuesday to slap them with a windfall profits tax and take away billions of dollars in tax breaks in response to the record gasoline prices that have the nation fuming.

...

If they are making record profits, they don't need special-interest tax breaks.

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Originally posted by Grachus:

I'm not up to date, but Last year Exxon had revenue of 160 Billion, and Profit of 40 billion. So are you suggesting that if we tax that profit, they will raise prices to get it back?

Depends on how the government wrote the law. More likely they'd simply start selling more of their oil over seas and move their headquarters out of the united states where american tax law couldn't touch them.

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Originally posted by Grachus:
Is there some inherenent law in Capitalism that if you don't make your 25 percent profit, you are obligated to raise prices?

Absolutely. That is exactly the law. Stock prices depend on growth. Lack of growth produces a negative effect on stock prices. Thats capitalism 101. The same reason why so many instances of creative book keeping were perpitrated by so many in the early part of the century. Enron, Tyco, World Comm.. Ring any bells?

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Originally posted by Grachus:
And who does the oil in America actually belong to? I believe it belongs to, "We the People," and the government that represents us, gave them the mineral rights to this oil at pennies for the barrel.

Yep. In a way it does. And they are americans. They are you and me and millions of other americans as well as forign nationals. They however spent the money to get it out of the ground. They took the risk and made the investment.

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Originally posted by Grachus:
And it's the government of We the People who protect their holdings abroad.

Not entirely.

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Originally posted by Grachus:
Let them move off shore - Nationalise the damn oil companies!

Go for it. That would be one way to end our dependance on oil. Of course we would come to regret it as much as every other nation that ever did it.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: floersh,

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Originally posted by floersh:

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Originally posted by SATCOM_VET:

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Originally posted by SATCOM_VET:

Just how do you suppose that would happen?

I mean, if the oil companies raise prices, that would just mean more revenue for us...the whole point of the tax.

They'd move their corporate head quarters offshore and start selling more of their product overseas..

They'd raise their middle finger and congress would be powerless to do anything about it. Of course all of us would find very little fuel when we pulled into the gas station..

Awwww man! As patriotic as Major Oil is! They are just dying to be asked to help out the poor common American slob.

Someone said poor little Exxon Mobil only made 40 billion profit last year. Poor thing paid a goodbye of 300 mil to a CEO, bought back millions of shares of their own stock and then short changed the pension plan.

If they want to go offshore I say don't let the door hit them in the arse.

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Originally posted by anoldnotboldrecondo:

If they want to go offshore I say don't let the door hit them in the arse.

Well you may just get what you wish for. Of course when you do I doubt you'll be happy about it.

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Originally posted by SATCOM_VET:

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Originally posted by SATCOM_VET:

Just how do you suppose that would happen?

I mean, if the oil companies raise prices, that would just mean more revenue for us...the whole point of the tax.

Yes - an increase on 25% of the profits. So, if I owned me a big oil compnay I bump prices up 32% - that covers the tax increase on the increase and makes up what I lost to start with. And the consumer ends up paying the tax.

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Originally posted by floersh:

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Originally posted by anoldnotboldrecondo:

If they want to go offshore I say don't let the door hit them in the arse.

Well you may just get what you wish for. Of course when you do I doubt you'll be happy about it.

I'm going to stop arguing the point - you're doing a better job of it. Jerk.

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Originally posted by SurfaceDog:

I'm going to stop arguing the point - you're doing a better job of it. Jerk.

I do have a question about this particular bill. Did it mention what the government would use this new tax revenue to pay for? Or did they leave that intentionally out.

Can somebody please explain why we should be giving industry-specific tax breaks and subsidies to companies already making record profits?

If my private company is successful, should I be able to get special treatment with specific tax breaks and subsidies?

Hurray for the GOP defending massive pork and earmarks.

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Originally posted by rcjarrell:
Can somebody please explain why we should be giving industry-specific tax breaks and subsidies to companies already making record profits?

If my private company is successful, should I be able to get special treatment with specific tax breaks and subsidies?

Big difference between cutting subsides and taxing profits of a specific industry with the intent of penalizing them.

Besides, I thought legislation was already passed which dropped the subsidizes? Or was that just the house bill. Why did all of this have to get shoved into one bill? So it could be turned into a political football maybe?

Good to see our representatives doing such a fine job of doing whats best for the american public. Its always about politics isn't it?

I have a question. In the coming years we are going to need capital to build what ever alternative to oil we need to maintian as much of our lifestyle as possible.

Is it really a good idea to set such a precedant on the eve of that need? We already have trillions evaporated due to the housing credit crisis. Every day investors have less money to invest due to high energy prices that are going to go higher.

Wher eis the capital going to come from to build these solar, nuclear, and other power plants? To build these battery powered cars? To build the infrastructure we need to pull through this mess to come?

Its going to come from investors looking to make profit. What sort of message are we sending to investors when we say we are going to tax away your profits?

Energy companies (including oil companies) build capital off the value of their stock. By taxing their profits you are in effect going to cripple the price of their stock and thus their ability to raise capaital.

Even if they wanted to stay and help we would be making it impossible for them to do anything about it.

And we would be further crippling millions of americans