Another one bites the dust. How many mega corps have to file bankruptcy and or go completely bust before we begin to realize how extensive the issue is. Heck this is one that actually got taxpayer handouts and it still went **** up.

quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Lender CIT Group has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection, in an effort to restructure its debt while trying to keep loans flowing to the thousands of mid-sized and small businesses.

CIT made the filing in New York bankruptcy court Sunday, after a debt-exchange offer to bondholders failed. CIT said in a statement that its bondholders have overwhelmingly approved a prepackaged reorganization plan which will reduce total debt by $10 billion while allowing the company to continue to do business.

"The decision to proceed with our plan of reorganization will allow CIT to continue to provide funding to our small business and middle market customers, two sectors that remain vitally important to the U.S. economy," said Jeffrey M. Peek, chairman and CEO. Peek has said he plans to step down at the end of the year.

CIT's move will wipe out current holders of its common and preferred stock, likely meaning the U.S. government will lose the $2.3 billion it sunk into CIT last year to prop up the ailing company. The government could have lost billions more, however, had it not declined to hand over more aid to the company earlier this year.

The Chapter 11 filing is one of the biggest in U.S. corporate history. CIT's bankruptcy filing shows $71 billion in finance and leasing assets against total debt of $64.9 billion. Its collapse is the latest in a string of huge cases driven by the financial crisis over the past two years, as bailed out industry heavyweights like General Motors and Chrysler both entered bankruptcy court.

-http://finance.yahoo.com/news/CIT-files-for-Chapter-11-apf-1202955938.html?x=0

Any bets on whether it comes out of bankruptcy any better then it went in?

I hope their frigging Chapter 11 bankruptcy and reorganization is flushed by the Chapter 11 judge ... and its assets sold to pay off preferred stockholders and debt holders. This is one big ripoff IMHO.

quote:

Originally posted by I_M_Qwerty:
I hope their frigging Chapter 11 bankruptcy and reorganization is flushed by the Chapter 11 judge ... and its assets sold to pay off preferred stockholders and debt holders. This is one big ripoff IMHO.

Come now you didn't notice the code words embedded in the story. Well let me repeat the section that should tell you how they believe things will go:

quote:

in an effort to restructure its debt while trying to keep loans flowing to the thousands of mid-sized and small businesses

That's code for we are going to tell the fed that if they break us up the credit market will seize up again so you had better let us steal some more from the taxpayer.

This will be a real test for Mr Obama and his party. If they continue to bail then they will forever be known as Bush part II. But if they say enough is enough then they earn some real credibility.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: floersh,

All of this on the same weekend as:

quote:

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) – U.S. authorities seized nine failed banks on Friday, the most in a single day since the financial crisis began and the latest stark sign that substantial parts of the nation's banking industry are being crippled by bad loans.

The move brought the total number of failed banks in 2009 to 115 -- their highest annual level since 1992 -- with analysts expecting more to come. Among the lenders seized Friday was Los Angeles-based California National Bank, in what was the fourth-largest U.S. bank failure this year.

-http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20091031/ts_nm/us_usbancorp

I guess in a small way CIT bankruptcy proves the commercial real-estate crash is unfolding.

There were many about 6 months ago that did not believe it would happen. They are shrinking in size every week.

quote:

Oct. 30 (Bloomberg) -- Billionaire investor Wilbur L. Ross Jr., said today the U.S. is in the beginning of a “huge crash in commercial real estate.”

“All of the components of real estate value are going in the wrong direction simultaneously,” said Ross, one of nine money managers participating in a government program to remove toxic assets from bank balance sheets. “Occupancy rates are going down. Rent rates are going down and the capitalization rate -- the return that investors are demanding to buy a property -- are going up.”

U.S. commercial property sales are forecast to fall to the lowest in almost two decades as the industry endures its worst slump since the savings and loan crisis of the early 1990s, according to property research firm Real Capital Analytics Inc. The Moody’s/REAL Commercial Property Price Indices already have fallen almost 41 percent since October 2007, Moody’s Investors Service said Oct. 19.

Billionaire George Soros, speaking today at a lecture organized by the Central European University in Budapest, said a “bloodletting” may be coming for leveraged buyouts and commercial real estate.

“The American consumer will no longer be able to serve as the motor for the world economy,” said Soros, 79.

-http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=email_en&sid=aoRYl03Rw1_g

and the head honcho's will glean 10's of millions while laughing all the way to the bank.

Obama's master plan is working. Slowly, but on track. Soon Obama will put into law that he should be President for life, like his blood brother Hugo Chavez is trying to do. It will work. Californians will get it started along with some help from Vermont and Massachusetts. Everyday the middle class is getting weaker and weaker. Soon they will surrender.

quote:

Originally posted by Duster6:
Obama's master plan is working. Slowly, but on track. Soon Obama will put into law that he should be President for life, like his blood brother Hugo Chavez is trying to do. It will work. Californians will get it started along with some help from Vermont and Massachusetts. Everyday the middle class is getting weaker and weaker. Soon they will surrender.

Ah, I love quotes like this. Define "soon." Meanwhile, I'll bookmark the link, so that a little over seven years from now, when Obama has peacefully transferred power to his elected successor, I can remind you of it.

Sorry Mr. April but I will not be alive in 7 years. However, I will be watching from above. If they have email up there I will send you a email saying,"Told you so".

quote:

Originally posted by BobApril:

quote:

Originally posted by Duster6:
Obama's master plan is working. Slowly, but on track. Soon Obama will put into law that he should be President for life, like his blood brother Hugo Chavez is trying to do. It will work. Californians will get it started along with some help from Vermont and Massachusetts. Everyday the middle class is getting weaker and weaker. Soon they will surrender.

Ah, I love quotes like this. Define "soon." Meanwhile, I'll bookmark the link, so that a little over seven years from now, when Obama has peacefully transferred power to his elected successor, I can remind you of it.

Barry won't be re-elected - not if elections are still allowed. People are tired of the theft of their tax money, the bail out of big wigs that supported Barry and helped him get elected, his socialist programs and cramming pork laden government take-over of private industry/ health care and the news media, sick and tired of the lies, the arrogance of Pelosi and CO, and the folks elected to represent US padding their own pockets while ignoring the wishes of the constituents.

"Just one year ago, would you have believed that an unelected government official, not even a Cabinet member confirmed by the Senate but simply one of the many 'czars' appointed by the President, could arbitrarily cut the pay of executives in private businesses by 50 percent or 90 percent? Did you think that another 'czar' would be talking about restricting talk radio? That there would be plans afloat to subsidize newspapers -- that is, to create a situation where some newspapers' survival would depend on the government liking what they publish? Did you imagine that anyone would even be talking about having a panel of so-called 'experts' deciding who could and could not get life-saving medical treatments? Scary as that is from a medical standpoint, it is also chilling from the standpoint of freedom. If you have a mother who needs a heart operation or a child with some dire medical condition, how free would you feel to speak out against an administration that has the power to make life and death decisions about your loved ones? Does any of this sound like America? How about a federal agency giving school children material to enlist them on the side of the president? Merely being assigned to sing his praises in class is apparently not enough. How much of America would be left if the federal government continued on this path? ... How far the President will go depends of course on how much resistance he meets. But the direction in which he is trying to go tells us more than all his rhetoric or media spin. Barack Obama has not only said that he is out to 'change the United States of America,' the people he has been associated with for years have expressed in words and deeds their hostility to the values, the principles and the people of this country. ... Nothing so epitomizes President Obama's own contempt for American values and traditions like trying to ram two bills through Congress in his first year -- each bill more than a thousand pages long -- too fast for either of them to be read, much less discussed. That he succeeded only the first time says that some people are starting to wake up. Whether enough people will wake up in time to keep America from being dismantled, piece by piece, is another question -- and the biggest question for this generation." --economist Thomas Sowell

quote:

In his writings Sowell has repeatedly emphasized the need for empirical evidence and objective assessments of data, as opposed to the sweeping generalizations, wishful thinking, and distorted or false evidence provided by numerous writers in the field of social policy and economics.

How ironic.

quote:

Originally posted by Yooper_tj:

quote:

In his writings Sowell has repeatedly emphasized the need for empirical evidence and objective assessments of data, as opposed to the sweeping generalizations, wishful thinking, and distorted or false evidence provided by numerous writers in the field of social policy and economics.

How ironic.

I know its tough on liberal sheople when faced with facts...

quote:

Originally posted by Mom2APAJ:

quote:

Originally posted by Yooper_tj:

quote:

In his writings Sowell has repeatedly emphasized the need for empirical evidence and objective assessments of data, as opposed to the sweeping generalizations, wishful thinking, and distorted or false evidence provided by numerous writers in the field of social policy and economics.

How ironic.

I know its tough on liberal sheople when faced with facts...

The esteemed fellow at the Hoover Institute would not be so confused about the definition of a "fact". Maybe the poster should spend a few dollars acquiring a dictionary.

quote:

Originally posted by Mom2APAJ:
"Just one year ago, would you have believed that an unelected government official, not even a Cabinet member confirmed by the Senate but simply one of the many 'czars' appointed by the President, could arbitrarily cut the pay of executives in private businesses by 50 percent or 90 percent?

Nope, this one's a surprise. Such officials have been able to affect business profits to that extreme for much longer, but directly affecting executive pay is new. By the way, can anyone define what qualifies as a "czar" for me?

quote:

Did you think that another 'czar' would be talking about restricting talk radio?

Sure - they've been talking about it for years. Again, define "czar," please.

quote:

That there would be plans afloat to subsidize newspapers -- that is, to create a situation where some newspapers' survival would depend on the government liking what they publish?

Also a surprise, but only because I would have expected them to simply die out with no government assistance. The government, after all, didn't cause their problems - they did that to themselves.

quote:

Did you imagine that anyone would even be talking about having a panel of so-called 'experts' deciding who could and could not get life-saving medical treatments?

Yes, they've been talking about that for years, too - only in the past the experts have been insurance company financial experts instead of health care experts. Ever see "John Q?"

quote:

How about a federal agency giving school children material to enlist them on the side of the president?

You mean something like Reagan's 1986 and 1988 speeches to schoolchildren about economic policy? Gee, Obama telling them to work hard and stay in school is far more sinister than that...

Still looking for an honest conservative columnist. Sowell is better than Cal Thomas, in much the same way as the smell of manure is better than the smell of a dead skunk.

Well this is bad for our existing economy that is based on credit but I think its a good thing. It means we are finally waking up and taking a little bit of responsibility. It also means that if the consumer spending report is right that we have more money to spend without the need for credit.

quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Consumers borrowed less for a record eighth straight month in September amid rising unemployment and tight credit conditions. Economists worry the declines in borrowing will drag on the fledgling recovery.

The Federal Reserve said Friday that borrowing fell at an annual rate of $14.8 billion in September. That's the biggest decline since July and was larger than the $10 billion drop economists expected.

Americans are borrowing less as they try to repair cracked nest eggs and replenish rainy day funds in a dismal jobs market. Many are finding it hard to get credit as banks, hit by the worst financial crisis in decades, have tightened lending standards.

-http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Consumer-borrowing-drops-148B-apf-3777546440.html?x=0

These GSEs are going to bleed us dry a few billion there a few billion there. TARP is only the beginning.

quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Freddie Mac's losses narrowed to $6.3 billion in the third quarter, but the government-controlled mortgage finance company didn't need a federal cash infusion.

The McLean, Va.-based company has received about $51 billion since it was seized by federal regulators in September 2008, but said it didn't need any more money for the second-straight quarter.

"We continued to see some positive housing market developments, including higher volumes of home sales and modest increases in house prices in certain areas of the country," the company's new chief executive, Charles Haldeman, said in a statement Friday.

-http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Freddie-Mac-loses-63B-in-apf-2893396059.html?x=0

Its pretty sad when losses narrowing to $6 billion in a single quarter is good news.

We've been warned it was coming for quite awhile now. But it is now official. Unemployment of greater than 10% nationally. A number last seen in 1983.

quote:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- For months he had warned it was coming but that didn't ease the political shockwaves for President Barack Obama when unemployment topped 10 percent.

-http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Analysis-10-percent-jobless-apf-102244572.html?x=0

I've been saying that the debt bubble created by Reagan in the 80s to save us from probably one of the biggest down turns since the depression had only put off the inevitable. And here we stand today, nearly 30 years later, facing a similar down turn, applying the same principals of borrow our way out of it. Unfortunately, this time around our debt burden is significantly larger than it was back then.

But we'll try anyway. And in a few years as our commitments to the baby boomers start coming due we will no doubt find ourselves back to this same point with an increasing frequency.

Did I forget to mention another couple of banks were shut this weekend bringing the total number of failed banks this year to 120.

Yep, the U-3 is at 10.2%. And, the extremely over-looked U-6 is at 17.5%!!!

I wish somebody could explain to me exactly how this supposed "jobless recovery" thing works. Because, for the life of me, I cannot see a sound economic reasoning that explains it.

quote:

Originally posted by 10tenths:
Yep, the U-3 is at 10.2%. And, the extremely over-looked U-6 is at 17.5%!!!

I wish somebody could explain to me exactly how this supposed "jobless recovery" thing works. Because, for the life of me, I cannot see a sound economic reasoning that explains it.

Start with productivity--it's higher than it's been in years. Great for businesses trying to trim expenses. Very bad new for the unemployed...in the relatively short term, anyway.

How about the increase in personal savings (and the drop in borrowing) as a sign of Americans taking up reality as a matter of fiscal policy again. Good sign...as long as you don't work in the retail sector.

Dollar's in the sewer, but that will cut the trade deficit even as it drives up oil.

Pick a factor, point it up as the key to understanding our recovery (or lack thereof), and get ready for the other shoes to come flying back at your head.