quote:

Originally posted by mnoble1066:
I agree with you to a certain extent, those who were caught red handed, and those who were convicted "without a SHADOW of a doubt", should receive whats coming to them.

However those convicted by "without a REASONABLE doubt", is still questionable.

• Anti-abortion
  
• Anti-death penalty
  
• Anti-War
  
• Pro-international aid (at unprecedented levels)
  

• Vegetarian
  
• Anti-leather
  
• Opposed to animal experimentation
  
• Anti-medicine (bacteria and viruses are life forms too!)
  

quote:

The Deadly Toll of Abortion by Amateurs
'http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/02/health/02abort.html'

Abortion must remain safe and legal in the United States. Women have and will always find ways to abort an unwanted fetus, but mortality increases when abortion is illegal or difficult to obtain. Instead of tilting at the proverbial windmills, we should be working together to reduce unwanted pregnancies through education.

quote:

U.S. Still Struggling With Infant Mortality

This is just ONE of the many reasons that the United States needs universal health care. Health care IS a right that ties directly in with Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and goes to "providing for the general welfare" of its citizens. It is as much a necessity as Fire and Police departments.

quote:

Air Pollution Blamed for 3% of Deaths in the United States


Air Pollution | Introduction: Is Air Pollution a Serious Threat to Health


Since the Clean Air Act was passed in 1970, emissions of the six major pollutants have decreased 48% and yet according to the American Lung Association, in 2003 more than half the American population continues to breathe air that is harmful to their health. You don't have to believe that climate change is a problem, but to ignore that we need clean air to breathe and clean water to drink is just ridiculous.

quote:

Originally posted by threerings:

quote:

U.S. Still Struggling With Infant Mortality
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/07/health/07stat.html

This is just ONE of the many reasons that the United States needs universal health care. Health care IS a right that ties directly in with Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and goes to "providing for the general welfare" of its citizens. It is as much a necessity as Fire and Police departments.

This is a list of FREE clinics in the closest large city to me:
+++http://www.freemedicalcamps.com/vcamp.php?cityid=1485

I didn't check everyone, but of the 6 I did check all offer FREE neonatal care. The two biggest reasons we struggle with Infant Mortality, compared to other nations, are our reporting methods (including our use of heroic measures, often not employeed by other nations) and our social issues...including our CHOICE not to use free care. When you consider that Infant Mortality is highest among young unmarried women and higher still for young unmarried black women and that drug use is often another factor..you have to ask: do we need MORE free care..or do we need to address the social issues that are the roo cause.. Namely the destrution of the family, the attack on parents, the acceptance of morally questionable actions..

But none of that fits your agenda does it? Keep scratching the surface...

You're a lot like the women who cried and fought and begged for security ligting and police patrols to counter rapes that I had the misfortune of meeting in college. Well, they got their way, they never accepted that personal responsability and accountability was part of the issue..they got their lights and patrols..

And young women have them to thank for the 15 to 20 rapes that happen every year at my college.

quote:

Originally posted by DMarkUhler:

quote:

Originally posted by threerings:

quote:

U.S. Still Struggling With Infant Mortality

This is just ONE of the many reasons that the United States needs universal health care. Health care IS a right that ties directly in with Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and goes to "providing for the general welfare" of its citizens. It is as much a necessity as Fire and Police departments.

This is a list of FREE clinics in the closest large city to me:
+++http://www.freemedicalcamps.com/vcamp.php?cityid=1485

I didn't check everyone, but of the 6 I did check all offer FREE neonatal care. The two biggest reasons we struggle with Infant Mortality, compared to other nations, are our reporting methods (including our use of heroic measures, often not employeed by other nations) and our social issues...including our CHOICE not to use free care. When you consider that Infant Mortality is highest among young unmarried women and higher still for young unmarried black women and that drug use is often another factor..you have to ask: do we need MORE free care..or do we need to address the social issues that are the roo cause.. Namely the destrution of the family, the attack on parents, the acceptance of morally questionable actions..

But none of that fits your agenda does it? Keep scratching the surface...

You're a lot like the women who cried and fought and begged for security ligting and police patrols to counter rapes that I had the misfortune of meeting in college. Well, they got their way, they never accepted that personal responsability and accountability was part of the issue..they got their lights and patrols..

And young women have them to thank for the 15 to 20 rapes that happen every year at my college.

Reporting methods? That is the best you got?

quote:

Originally posted by threerings:

Well..hey! Talk about wraping your cause in an emotional blanket. I'm for clean air..who isn't? But there must be balance between how clean our air is and our ability to function as a nation. Furthermore, simply driving the biggest pollution makers out of the U.S. and to China or Mexico does not solve the problem.

quote:

Originally posted by SeaWitch1220:

quote:

Originally posted by threerings:

Well..hey! Talk about wraping your cause in an emotional blanket. I'm for clean air..who isn't? But there must be balance between how clean our air is and our ability to function as a nation. Furthermore, simply driving the biggest pollution makers out of the U.S. and to China or Mexico does not solve the problem.

Our ability to function as a PLANET depends on our "cleaning up our act". Our ability to function as a nation depends on us completely breaking our dependence on OIL, foreign or domestic. Our ability to function as a nation depends on looking into new and cleaner ways to power our homes and our vehicles. China's already figuring that out...do we want to be behind China in the production and exporting of green technology? (Actually, I think we already ARE)

quote:

Originally posted by BritishAlly:
'Pro-Life': a misleading term.

How many among us are completely pro-life in all respects?

You would have to be:

• Anti-abortion
  
• Anti-death penalty
  
• Anti-War
  
• Pro-international aid (at unprecedented levels)
  

...and that's if we interpret it as 'pro HUMAN life'. Widening it further, you would have to be:

• Vegetarian
  
• Anti-leather
  
• Opposed to animal experimentation
  
• Anti-medicine (bacteria and viruses are life forms too!)
  

And are plants a form of life? If so you might go hungry.

And what happens where there is a conflict; where you have to choose the survival of one life over another?

So, if you are truly pro-life in all respects, you would be an anti-abortion vegetarian liberal hippy, and it would be a toss-up as to whether you died of starvation or disease first. Most of all, you would be a raving schizophrenic.

OK, this is a ridiculous argument, but it shows the dangers of lazily using a shorthand term such as 'pro-life'. We each define it in our own way, and its use to define a specific subset of 'pro-life' beliefs (such as opposition to abortion) is unhelpful, at best.

quote:

Originally posted by threerings:

China has NOT figured that out. Sure they may mouth it but they are not acting on it. They are soaking up oil. They are polluting like crazy. They have no real EPA. They have no real regulations.

quote:

Originally posted by SeaWitch1220:
FACTS are such tricky things...oh wait, no they aren't. Facts are facts...it is in how we interpret them that makes the difference. I realize that, for some, nuance is french and gay, but for others like me, there are more than two sides to an issue. Some issues have many sides and facets.

U.S. Still Struggling With Infant Mortality
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/07/health/07stat.html

This is just ONE of the many reasons that the United States needs universal health care. Health care IS a right that ties directly in with Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness and goes to "providing for the general welfare" of its citizens. It is as much a necessity as Fire and Police departments.

Air Pollution Blamed for 3% of Deaths in the United States
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/412202

Air Pollution | Introduction: Is Air Pollution a Serious Threat to Health
http://www.enotes.com/air-pollution-article

Since the Clean Air Act was passed in 1970, emissions of the six major pollutants have decreased 48% and yet according to the American Lung Association, in 2003 more than half the American population continues to breathe air that is harmful to their health. You don't have to believe that climate change is a problem, but to ignore that we need clean air to breathe and clean water to drink is just ridiculous.

Behavioral Intervention Programs Reduce High-Risk Sexual Behavior in Adolescents
http://www.psychologymatters.org/riskybusiness.html

Psychological research shows that comprehensive sex education and HIV prevention programs are effective in reducing high-risk sexual behavior in adolescents. Based on over 15 years of research, the evidence shows that behavioral intervention programs that encourage abstinence, promote appropriate condom use and teach sexual communication skills reduce risky behavior and also delay the onset of sexual intercourse.

The Deadly Toll of Abortion by Amateurs
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/02/health/02abort.html

Abortion must remain safe and legal in the United States. Women have and will always find ways to abort an unwanted fetus, but mortality increases when abortion is illegal or difficult to obtain. Instead of tilting at the proverbial windmills, we should be working together to reduce unwanted pregnancies through education.

Iraq Coalition Casualty Count
http://icasualties.org/Iraq/index.aspx

The casualty count from out "pre-emptive" war in Iraq should be enough to give anyone pause. All of these people are dead because of the Bush Doctrine of invading a country that hadn't attacked us. I'm not anti-war, but I certainly don't support invading and occupying a country that hadn't attacked us. Our response to 9/11, initially, was "right on target". I believe in getting the guy that "got" us...respond when attacked, protect ourselves, but that is NOT what the invasion of Iraq was and I opposed it with every fiber of my being then and am disgusted that we are still there now. "Lest in self defense it be, ever mind the rule of three."

quote:

Originally posted by SeaWitch1220:

quote:

Originally posted by threerings:

China has NOT figured that out. Sure they may mouth it but they are not acting on it. They are soaking up oil. They are polluting like crazy. They have no real EPA. They have no real regulations.

China Wakes Up to the Dangers of Pollution
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/145605.html

China addressing pollution issue
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2005-08/16/content_469523.htm

China's green push starts at the bottom
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4854258.stm

quote:

Originally posted by ACR26:
1,600,000 abortions a year in America
653,708 combat deaths total in all our wars.

We have killed almost double the number of unborn children…than lives lost in combat.
Both are sad statistics. Neither can be compared. To say pro-life in this manner is tardedRE.

“http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004615.html
“http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,880,00.html

quote:

Originally posted by ACR26:
1,600,000 abortions a year in America
653,708 combat deaths total in all our wars.

We have killed almost double the number of unborn children…than lives lost in combat.
Both are sad statistics. Neither can be compared. To say pro-life in this manner is tardedRE.

“http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004615.html
“http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,880,00.html

quote:

Originally posted by ACR26:
1,600,000 abortions a year in America
653,708 combat deaths total in all our wars.

We have killed almost double the number of unborn children…than lives lost in combat.
Both are sad statistics. Neither can be compared. To say pro-life in this manner is tardedRE.

“http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004615.html
“http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,880,00.html

quote:

Originally posted by armywifefigueroa:

quote:

Originally posted by ACR26:
1,600,000 abortions a year in America
653,708 combat deaths total in all our wars.

We have killed almost double the number of unborn children…than lives lost in combat.
Both are sad statistics. Neither can be compared. To say pro-life in this manner is tardedRE.

“http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004615.html
“http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,880,00.html

I think one thing alot of people don't think about when reading abortion statistics is that Ectopic pregnancies being terminated is considered an abortion and is medically necessary. Any time a D&C is done on a woman after the fetus has already died but her system has neglected to "clean itself", that is also considered an abortion.

But what do I know, I'm just a pro-Choicer, pro-death penalty, pro-eating animal kinda person.

quote:

Originally posted by thorin001:

quote:

Originally posted by ACR26:
1,600,000 abortions a year in America
653,708 combat deaths total in all our wars.

We have killed almost double the number of unborn children…than lives lost in combat.
Both are sad statistics. Neither can be compared. To say pro-life in this manner is tardedRE.

“http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004615.html
“http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,880,00.html

According to that figure that means that 1 in every 94 women in the US has an abortion each year. That includes newborns and 97 year old ladies. Given that less than 10% of the women in this country are pregnant at any given time that would mean that over 10% of all pregnancies end in abortion. I seriously doubt that the abortion rate is that high.

quote:

Originally posted by SeaWitch1220:
I am pro life which is why I support:

• Universal Health Care (The United States ranks 50th out of 224 nations in life expectancy, with an average life span of 78.1 years)Sounds nice, but at over a trillion dollars for 10 years with only 1/3rd of people who need it getting it is going to be expensive and continual outlays. Plus I seriously doubt the federal government's ability to run it efficiently. This will push mandantory spending to over 60% of the annual federal budget. It will be at the expense of discretionary spending since politicians have a hard time cutting or curtailing entitlement programs
  
• Reducing Carbon Emissions (Air pollution is responsible for 3% of the deaths in this country)You including all countries in this or just the US? And out of those counted in the 3%, how many were at risk due to resporitory ailments or other diseases? Just trying to determine if the 3% figure is skewed.
  
• Sex Education in schools to reduce unwanted pregnancy and STDsAgreed, but not in grade school
  
• Diplomacy rather than the "Bush Doctrine" of preemptive war12 years of using diplomacy going through the UN with Saddam and patrolling the no-fly zones and 8 years of attacks on the US by AQ and Taliban. How long do we try diplomacy? What is the point, for you, that we go to the next step?
  

Pro Child, Pro Life, Pro Choice

quote:

Originally posted by ACR26:

quote:

Originally posted by armywifefigueroa:

quote:

Originally posted by ACR26:
1,600,000 abortions a year in America
653,708 combat deaths total in all our wars.

We have killed almost double the number of unborn children…than lives lost in combat.
Both are sad statistics. Neither can be compared. To say pro-life in this manner is tardedRE.

“http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004615.html
“http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,880,00.html

I think one thing alot of people don't think about when reading abortion statistics is that Ectopic pregnancies being terminated is considered an abortion and is medically necessary. Any time a D&C is done on a woman after the fetus has already died but her system has neglected to "clean itself", that is also considered an abortion.

But what do I know, I'm just a pro-Choicer, pro-death penalty, pro-eating animal kinda person.

How many is that a year?
Is that included in this stat?
I guess since you made that point then my post is moot?

quote:

Originally posted by I_M_Qwerty:

BTW ... totally off topic ... since quitting smoking, my taste buds have made a comeback ... and I'm amazed at how crappy so many things taste that I thought I liked.

quote:

Reducing Carbon Emissions (Air pollution is responsible for 3% of the deaths in this country) You including all countries in this or just the US? And out of those counted in the 3%, how many were at risk due to resporitory ailments or other diseases? Just trying to determine if the 3% figure is skewed.

quote:

Originally posted by A_Savage:

quote:

Reducing Carbon Emissions (Air pollution is responsible for 3% of the deaths in this country) You including all countries in this or just the US? And out of those counted in the 3%, how many were at risk due to resporitory ailments or other diseases? Just trying to determine if the 3% figure is skewed.

"The study looked at 5 major US cities that carry out daily measurements of PM10 concentration in the atmosphere, Minneapolis, Minnesota; Chicago, Illinois; Detroit, Michigan; Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania; and Seattle, Washington. Led by Joel Schwartz, professor at the Harvard School of Public Health in Boston, the team of scientists estimated the number of deaths potentially related to air pollution on a day-to-day basis.

According to the study, Minneapolis carries the highest risk factor: for every 10-mcg increment in the dust particles per cubic meter, the rate of daily mortality increases there by 1.3%. In Pittsburgh and Detroit, for the same concentration of pollutants, excess mortality is only 0.80% and 0.77%, again for every 10-mcg increment in pollution. The most populated city (Chicago, with 5 million inhabitants) comes fourth, and in Seattle the figure drops to only 0.44%."

"the 5 cities showed a daily pollution rate of around 30 mcg per cubic meter, which is equivalent to about 3% excess mortality. Because this pollution rate is far below the authorized limit of 150 mcg, however, Schwartz and colleagues wondered whether some of the deaths should not be attributed to epidemics of respiratory diseases, such as those related to influenza or pneumonia.

To find out, they identified critical periods by looking at the number of daily hospital admissions for pneumonia: if the number exceeded a certain threshold for 10 days or more, they would classify the outbreak as an epidemic. But while they did observe a slight decrease in the number of deaths due to pollution at the time of such respiratory epidemics, Schwartz and colleagues estimated that this effect could on the whole be considered negligible. "Our results confirm the strength of the causality between PM10 exposure and deaths," according to Alfesio Braga, coauthor of the study. "They show that this association is not due to any other external effects."

"In addition, it was found that air pollution each year triggered over a million asthma attacks, as well as more than 47,000 cases of chronic bronchitis in adults and 540,000 cases of acute bronchitis in children."
--Savage

quote:

Originally posted by threerings:

quote:

Originally posted by ACR26:
1,600,000 abortions a year in America
653,708 combat deaths total in all our wars.

We have killed almost double the number of unborn children…than lives lost in combat.
Both are sad statistics. Neither can be compared. To say pro-life in this manner is tardedRE.

“http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004615.html
“http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,880,00.html

SW has the gall to claim to be pro-life..or even pro-children..when she is toasting marshmellows to the life of a homosexual pedophile.

quote:

Originally posted by SeaWitch1220:

quote:

Originally posted by threerings:

quote:

Originally posted by ACR26:
1,600,000 abortions a year in America
653,708 combat deaths total in all our wars.

We have killed almost double the number of unborn children…than lives lost in combat.
Both are sad statistics. Neither can be compared. To say pro-life in this manner is tardedRE.

“http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004615.html
“http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,880,00.html

SW has the gall to claim to be pro-life..or even pro-children..when she is toasting marshmellows to the life of a homosexual pedophile.

Gosh it is so surprising that you have, once again, mis characterized something that I said/wrote. I said that we played his music as we toasted marshmallows. His MUSIC is what I honored him for. Perhaps you didn't notice in the OP's original post that he didn't want the thread to be a "bash" MJ thread. Open one of those and I would be happy to join in the condemnation of the things that Michael Jackson has allegedly done in his lifetime.

quote:

Originally posted by ACR26:

quote:

Originally posted by thorin001:

quote:

Originally posted by ACR26:
1,600,000 abortions a year in America
653,708 combat deaths total in all our wars.

We have killed almost double the number of unborn children…than lives lost in combat.
Both are sad statistics. Neither can be compared. To say pro-life in this manner is tardedRE.

“http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004615.html
“http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,880,00.html

According to that figure that means that 1 in every 94 women in the US has an abortion each year. That includes newborns and 97 year old ladies. Given that less than 10% of the women in this country are pregnant at any given time that would mean that over 10% of all pregnancies end in abortion. I seriously doubt that the abortion rate is that high.

I did not personally count the number. If we use half of that...is that any better? I am confused as to your point.