quote:

Two of every three practicing physicians oppose the medical overhaul plan under consideration in Washington, and hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if it were adopted, a new IBD/TIPP Poll has found.

The poll contradicts the claims of not only the White House, but also doctors' own lobby — the powerful American Medical Association — both of which suggest the medical profession is behind the proposed overhaul.

Major findings included:

• Two-thirds, or 65%, of doctors say they oppose the proposed government expansion plan. This contradicts the administration's claims that doctors are part of an "unprecedented coalition" supporting a medical overhaul.

It also differs with findings of a poll released Monday by National Public Radio that suggests a "majority of physicians want public and private insurance options," and clashes with media reports such as Tuesday's front-page story in the Los Angeles Times with the headline "Doctors Go For Obama's Reform."

Nowhere in the Times story does it say doctors as a whole back the overhaul. It says only that the AMA — the "association representing the nation's physicians" and what "many still regard as the country's premier lobbying force" — is "lobbying and advertising to win public support for President Obama's sweeping plan."

The AMA, in fact, represents approximately 18% of physicians and has been hit with a number of defections by members opposed to the AMA's support of Democrats' proposed health care overhaul.

• Four of nine doctors, or 45%, said they "would consider leaving their practice or taking an early retirement" if Congress passes the plan the Democratic majority and White House have in mind.

More than 800,000 doctors were practicing in 2006, the government says. Projecting the poll's finding onto that population, 360,000 doctors would consider quitting.

• More than seven in 10 doctors, or 71% — the most lopsided response in the poll — answered "no" when asked if they believed "the government can cover 47 million more people and that it will cost less money and the quality of care will be better."



"http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=506199"

Claim Half of Doctors Will Quit if Reform Passed

One of the most shameless pieces of "journalism" that I've read in recent weeks has to be this piece from Investor's Business Daily entitled 45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul.

The article goes on to claim the following:

"hundreds of thousands would think about shutting down their practices or retiring early if [the medical overhaul plan under consideration] were adopted"

"65%, of doctors say they oppose the proposed government expansion plan"

"360,000 out of the 800,000 currently practicing doctors (or 45%) would consider quitting if reform was passed."

"More than seven in 10 doctors, or 71% — the most lopsided response in the poll — answered 'no' when asked if they believed "the government can cover 47 million more people and that it will cost less money and the quality of care will be better."

"Adding millions of patients to physicians' caseloads would threaten to overwhelm the system. Medical gatekeepers would have to deny care to large numbers of people. That means care would have to be rationed."

At first glance, you'd assume they pulled these claims directly from their backsides, but no, they have statistics to back it up:

"The IBD/TIPP Poll was conducted by mail the past two weeks, with 1,376 practicing physicians chosen randomly throughout the country taking part. Responses are still coming in..."

Ah, they polled doctors... Wait a second. "Responses are still coming in"? Investor's Business Daily is opening admitting they are reporting on an incomplete survey. How many responses have yet to come in? From where? What are the demographics of the responses received so far? Not shockingly, the raw data of the survey has not been released so any outside analysis is impossible.

Another major issue with the poll is how it achieved it's "65% oppose reform" result. The question that generated that number was phrased as follows, "Do you support or oppose proposed health care reform?" What "proposed health care reform" meant was left up in the air. As of now, nobody really knows what will be in the final bill, therefore nobody can accurately say what an answer to this question really means. Perhaps the doctor's surveyed are in favor of more strenuous reforms which would include more government involvement. It's impossible to say either way and this poorly phrased question is the heart and soul of the Investor's Business Daily's claims.

Let's look at another recent poll about health reform:

A recent NPR poll shows that "63 percent of doctors say they favor giving patients a choice that would include both public and private insurance. In addition, another 10 percent of doctors say they favor a public option only; they'd like to see a single-payer health care system. Together, the two groups add up to 73 percent". The raw numbers for this poll can be found at the The New England Journal of Medicine's website.

Here we have two polls that perfectly contradict each other. One way to differenciate between the analysis of these two polls is to look at who's doing the analysis.

In one corner we have NPR and the New England Journal of Medicine. In the other corner...

Terry JonesThe author of the Investor's Business Daily piece is Terry Jones, who has penned other objective pieces such as Can The Liberal National Media Be Trusted To Report The Facts? and Surging Oil Primes Political Pump For New U.S. Drilling. I guess we know where's he's coming from.

The magazine/website that Mr. Jones works for, Investor's Business Daily, is like Fox News on acid. News watchdog website NewsTrust.net gives Investor's Business Daily laughable marks. On a scale of 1-5, Investor's Business Daily ranks 1 for fairness, 1 for sourcing and a 1.7 for responsibility. In other words, take whatever they say with a healthy bit of scepticism.

Naturally, those on the right (like Michelle Malkin) are hailing this article as proof health care reform will spell doom for the medical industry in the United States. I warn against doing so. Promoting this study as fact only displays one's inability to distinguish real research from propaganda aimed to achieve a predetermined result.

http://intershame.com/on/Investor_s_Business_Daily/

I could see why a lot of doctors would in fact leave medicine if massive regulation was to take place...Healthcare is a business, if there is little to no money to be made due to an over burden of patients while being forced to take a pay cut at the same time, it is only reasonable to believe that many doctors will leave the practice as well as it probably would discourage some from becoming doctors in the future...Just imagine how well any business would function if they were forced to take on way more customers while being forced to charge less for their products at the same time, there would be little profit with a bunch of extra work involved.


It would be bad journalism to leave these kind of facts out like many in the mainstream media have done just that....Hello news networks where are you out there??? You miss this kind of stuff, you overlook massive protests, and of course you are helping to hide the whack things going on with Acorn, but ya'll have the time to follow and stay up to date on Ms. Palin's tweets!

Aren't Investors Business Daily the ones that said Stephen Hawking wouldn't be alive today if he had to get healthcare under Britain's UHC system?

NPR... The bastion of non-partisan reporting. I'm totaly cracking up, one the one hand bashing Investor's Business Daily, "Fox News on Acid..", Then quoting a poll taken by Drs. from New York, which is a liberal bastion, that was put out by NPR...

"Hello kettle, this is pot.....you're black." (disclaimer: not intended to be a racist statement in any way.)

Other sources... "http://my.att.net/s/editorial.dll?pnum=1&bfromind=7401&eeid=6800922&_sitecat=1522&dcatid=0&eetype=article&render=y&ac=-2&ck=&ch=ne&rg=blsadstrgt&l=hm"

'Health care issues: Shortage of doctors
Published: 9/15/09, 2:46 PM EDT
By The Associated Press'
(AP) - A look at key issues in the health care debate:

'THE ISSUE: Will there be enough doctors to provide care to millions of previously uninsured patients if health reform is passed?

THE POLITICS: With primary-care doctors in limited supply, Republicans opposed to sweeping reform say the health care system would be overwhelmed if nearly 50 million uninsured Americans are given coverage. As is, the American Academy of Family Physicians is predicting a shortage of 40,000 primary-care doctors by 2020, with medical schools graduating only half the number needed to meet demand. Democrats and the Obama administration do not dispute looming shortages, now seen in many poor and rural areas, that could lead to longer waits and more emergency-room visits. But they argue that health care legislation would address those problems.'
<SNIP>
From att.net >NEWS>>U.S. News

GOOGLE "Doctor Shortage In US" The NY Times has a article about the SHORTAGE that already exists. Then factor in those M.D.s that will quit in connjunction with the existing shortage. Just an FYI

SOURCE: "http://www.newsweek.com/id/215291"

Here is the New England Journal of Medicine article and poll.

-http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=1790&query=home

Much more credible than IBD.

quote:

Originally posted by rcjarrell:
Here is the New England Journal of Medicine article and poll.

-http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=1790&query=home

Much more credible than IBD.

ROFLMAO! Sorry, but in medicalese, "IBD" means "Irritable Bowel Disease."

I think that fits for a lot of naysayers. NEJM is one of if not THE most prestigious and highly regarded medical journals. I'd go with it.

(The Journal of the American Medical Association [JAMA] and Lancet [British medical journal] are the other two at the top. There are others, but they tend more to specialties; these three are broad-based, peer-reviewed, and evidence-based.)

quote:

45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul

Then that is the 45% if the doctors who are more concerned in maintaining the status-quo (for-profit medical care and all who cannot afford it do not deserve to live) than their professional oath.

I salute the other 55%! They are TRUE healers.

Do tell...what does a doctor do with his life when he 'quits'?

Sell health insurance?

quote:

Originally posted by Cider33_Alpha:

quote:

Originally posted by rcjarrell:
Here is the New England Journal of Medicine article and poll.

-http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=1790&query=home

Much more credible than IBD.

ROFLMAO! Sorry, but in medicalese, "IBD" means "Irritable Bowel Disease."

I think that fits for a lot of naysayers. NEJM is one of if not THE most prestigious and highly regarded medical journals. I'd go with it.

(The Journal of the American Medical Association [JAMA] and Lancet [British medical journal] are the other two at the top. There are others, but they tend more to specialties; these three are broad-based, peer-reviewed, and evidence-based.)

The folks at WSJ and IBD both have some serious IBD going on because of the talk of medical reform.

quote:

Originally posted by skinman13:

quote:

45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul

Then that is the 45% if the doctors who are more concerned in maintaining the status-quo (for-profit medical care and all who cannot afford it do not deserve to live) than their professional oath.

I salute the other 55%! They are TRUE healers.

They have every right to the American dream just as much as you or I...If they wanted to do charity work they can do that on the side like many missionary's do on planned occasions...To expect them to go to 8 plus years of top dollar education on top of their ridiculous work schedule and rigorous internship just to make peanuts you are high...To a Liberal someones time, service, and money is theres for the TAKING...Heck, why don't teachers take a pay cut since there job is gravy and way less hours involved, after all it is a PUBLIC service.

quote:

Originally posted by Yooper_tj:
Do tell...what does a doctor do with his life when he 'quits'?

Sell health insurance?

I am sure they could go into private practice for the rich that could pay out of pocket or they could do just about anything, with all their education they would probably only need a few more classes and they could get a degree in business or political science to run a business or for an elected office...Regardless they would find something else just like you or I would if we no longer like our jobs due to the politics involved.

quote:

Originally posted by SenClaghorn:

quote:

Originally posted by Cider33_Alpha:

quote:

Originally posted by rcjarrell:
Here is the New England Journal of Medicine article and poll.

-http://healthcarereform.nejm.org/?p=1790&query=home

Much more credible than IBD.

ROFLMAO! Sorry, but in medicalese, "IBD" means "Irritable Bowel Disease."

I think that fits for a lot of naysayers. NEJM is one of if not THE most prestigious and highly regarded medical journals. I'd go with it.

(The Journal of the American Medical Association [JAMA] and Lancet [British medical journal] are the other two at the top. There are others, but they tend more to specialties; these three are broad-based, peer-reviewed, and evidence-based.)

The folks at WSJ and IBD both have some serious IBD going on because of the talk of medical reform.

IBD...more like yet another hickey on the hemmorhoid that is the right-wing spin machine.

quote:

Originally posted by scoutsout1:

quote:

Originally posted by Yooper_tj:
Do tell...what does a doctor do with his life when he 'quits'?

Sell health insurance?

I am sure they could go into private practice for the rich that could pay out of pocket or they could do just about anything, with all their education they would probably only need a few more classes and they could get a degree in business or political science to run a business or for an elected office...Regardless they would find something else just like you or I would if we no longer like our jobs due to the politics involved.

I am pretty sure that 95% of the teachers are not in it for the money and the, "gravy job."

Besides, where would that doctor be without teachers...or you, for that matter?

quote:

Originally posted by scoutsout1:

quote:

Originally posted by Yooper_tj:
Do tell...what does a doctor do with his life when he 'quits'?

Sell health insurance?

I am sure they could go into private practice for the rich that could pay out of pocket or they could do just about anything, with all their education they would probably only need a few more classes and they could get a degree in business or political science to run a business or for an elected office...Regardless they would find something else just like you or I would if we no longer like our jobs due to the politics involved.

Ahh yes. Private practice for the rich...as if that option would be created by UHC.

I think the article half-assed poll in that IBD rag suggested that 45 percent 'would consider' quitting. I consider quitting twice a month as I consider the bureaucrats up the food chain on road and airport projects...then reality sets in. I pull my head back together and press on. I innovate. I improvise. I manage. I work with what's available.

Far more than I am, doctors are invested in what they do. Opening a mini-mart won't scratch that itch, nor will it pay off the loans.

Quit taking medicare/medicaid/insurance payments? Not much market left for 45 percent of physicians to split...

Doctors aren't really the whiny little *****es you and IBD make them out to be.

quote:

45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul

Who knows, maybe that would improve medical care! I know no MD's who are part of that alleged 45%? And, as asked already, what will they do? Nothing stopping them from quitting, of course.... I wonder, is there enough room on the golf courses to keep them busy? Maybe it will increase the number of badly need golf courses in the US?

quote:

Originally posted by skinman13:

quote:

Originally posted by scoutsout1:

quote:

Originally posted by Yooper_tj:
Do tell...what does a doctor do with his life when he 'quits'?

Sell health insurance?

I am sure they could go into private practice for the rich that could pay out of pocket or they could do just about anything, with all their education they would probably only need a few more classes and they could get a degree in business or political science to run a business or for an elected office...Regardless they would find something else just like you or I would if we no longer like our jobs due to the politics involved.

I am pretty sure that 95% of the teachers are not in it for the money and the, "gravy job."

Besides, where would that doctor be without teachers...or you, for that matter?

Teaching is important that is for sure, but so is our Military, Firemen, Peace/Corrections Officers, Parole Officers, Judges, Lawyers, etc. they all have an important job to do and SHOULD be paid accordingly to their education, time in, hours worked, etc., I would never expect one to work for free or at a discounted rate just because their services are NEEDED!

quote:

Originally posted by skinman13:

quote:

45% Of Doctors Would Consider Quitting If Congress Passes Health Care Overhaul

Then that is the 45% if the doctors who are more concerned in maintaining the status-quo (for-profit medical care and all who cannot afford it do not deserve to live) than their professional oath.

I salute the other 55%! They are TRUE healers.

Well of course they make such threats. After years of "sitting at God's right hand," they resent that they may have to come down to earth with us mere mortals. Actually I misspoke. A lot of doctors do not think they're sitting at God's right hand, A lot of them think that God is sitting at their right hand.

It's time for a big time change not only in the medical trades but also the insurance industry and the blood sucking lawyers who may well prove to be at the very bottom of the problem.

quote:

Originally posted by scoutsout1:

quote:

Originally posted by skinman13:

quote:

Originally posted by scoutsout1:

quote:

Originally posted by Yooper_tj:
Do tell...what does a doctor do with his life when he 'quits'?

Sell health insurance?

I am sure they could go into private practice for the rich that could pay out of pocket or they could do just about anything, with all their education they would probably only need a few more classes and they could get a degree in business or political science to run a business or for an elected office...Regardless they would find something else just like you or I would if we no longer like our jobs due to the politics involved.

I am pretty sure that 95% of the teachers are not in it for the money and the, "gravy job."

Besides, where would that doctor be without teachers...or you, for that matter?

Teaching is important that is for sure, but so is our Military, Firemen, Peace/Corrections Officers, Parole Officers, Judges, Lawyers, etc. they all have an important job to do and SHOULD be paid accordingly to their education, time in, hours worked, etc., I would never expect one to work for free or at a discounted rate just because their services are NEEDED!

A lot of teachers work for free and at a reduced rate just because their services are needed...but I bet there are no doctors in that whining 45% who do...

The problem I see with this passing is that millions will be added to the system and yes illegals included, which will require additional doctors, which will be hard to find because who in their right mind would pay a high tuition rate only to be paid peanuts. Yes the pay for doctors will be less to offset the high cost of the government run health care program which EVERYONE will be forced to take after employers find that it is cheaper for them to drop the private health insurance.
The explosion in new "patients" will skyrocket which in turn will cause a waiting list to be added to the mess, and along with that list will be the elderly who will be left by the wayside because it is not at all economical to heal an elderly person when a younger person will have a longer life if they are healed instead.
Read the fine print as well as what is omitted in this bill. Ask why if no illegals were going to be allowed then why did the Democrats shoot down an amendment that specifically said that illegals would not be allowed.

Oh and don't worry about cost because we will ALL be paying more to help offset the cost.

Public insurence currently shorts the billed amount for MD's by 40% to 90%. The high end shortintg to specialists. My med. pro. friends say it is both arbitrary and capricious. tHEY ARE NEARING RETIREMENT, AND IF THE PAY IS CONSISTANT WITH medicade/care , they will retire.

As you may know, medical tourism is becoming very popular. The best, who do not want to retire, will likely be physicians over seas, where they simply draw a large paycheck for their work , are free from harrasment lawsuits, and live as respectd royalty.

It is called brain drain and capital flight.

What those of us who are sane want is IMPROVED HEALTH CARE, and dismanteling the worlds best system and driving off half of the best and most experenced physicians is not it. HR 3200 is utter insanity and needs to find its' rightful place in history. Shredded in the round file.

quote:

Originally posted by peter3_1:
Public insurence currently shorts the billed amount for MD's by 40% to 90%. The high end shortintg to specialists. My med. pro. friends say it is both arbitrary and capricious. tHEY ARE NEARING RETIREMENT, AND IF THE PAY IS CONSISTANT WITH medicade/care , they will retire.

As you may know, medical tourism is becoming very popular. The best, who do not want to retire, will likely be physicians over seas, where they simply draw a large paycheck for their work , are free from harrasment lawsuits, and live as respectd royalty.

It is called brain drain and capital flight.

What those of us who are sane want is IMPROVED HEALTH CARE, and dismanteling the worlds best system and driving off half of the best and most experenced physicians is not it. HR 3200 is utter insanity and needs to find its' rightful place in history. Shredded in the round file.

Agreed: It would be so much cheaper and beneficial if they tweek what we have in place now, this is all a majority of us who are against the government controlled "option" want. Option, that word has been making me laugh lately.

quote:

Originally posted by Agent991:
GOOGLE "Doctor Shortage In US" The NY Times has a article about the SHORTAGE that already exists. Then factor in those M.D.s that will quit in connjunction with the existing shortage. Just an FYI

sorry but I read nothing printed by the NY Times except the baseball box scores.

quote:

Originally posted by skinman13:

quote:

Originally posted by scoutsout1:

quote:

Originally posted by skinman13:

quote:

Originally posted by scoutsout1:

quote:

Originally posted by Yooper_tj:
Do tell...what does a doctor do with his life when he 'quits'?

Sell health insurance?

I am sure they could go into private practice for the rich that could pay out of pocket or they could do just about anything, with all their education they would probably only need a few more classes and they could get a degree in business or political science to run a business or for an elected office...Regardless they would find something else just like you or I would if we no longer like our jobs due to the politics involved.

I am pretty sure that 95% of the teachers are not in it for the money and the, "gravy job."

Besides, where would that doctor be without teachers...or you, for that matter?

Teaching is important that is for sure, but so is our Military, Firemen, Peace/Corrections Officers, Parole Officers, Judges, Lawyers, etc. they all have an important job to do and SHOULD be paid accordingly to their education, time in, hours worked, etc., I would never expect one to work for free or at a discounted rate just because their services are NEEDED!

A lot of teachers work for free and at a reduced rate just because their services are needed...but I bet there are no doctors in that whining 45% who do...

Yes...we should all work in the rice fields together.

Wonder how much those docs give to charities? Do you know skinman? I don't but you obviously do. On that note how much $$ did Pres Obama send his Kenyan brother last year?

And the last I saw...the costs of education for becoming a school teacher was much higher than the costs to become a brain surgeon.

quote:

Originally posted by Yooper_tj:
Do tell...what does a doctor do with his life when he 'quits'?

Sell health insurance?

Nope...they go to work with the rest of us building the infrastructure and green jobs we hear soooo much about...oh wait...