I hear theres a mirror and smoke machine shortage in DC



$1T reform for 5%

By JEFFREY H. ANDERSON
'http://www.nypostonline.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/reform_for_bxIPYJJIcJA9hKmHRPxJ8H'
THE health-care-reform debate is plagued by different num bers on how many Ameri cans lack health insurance, but we actually have excellent data on the question: Ninety percent of Americans are insured, according to the Census -- and even the president more or less concurs.

The Census is the source for the much-cited figure of 46 million uninsured. Yet the very same table plainly indicates that 9 million of those are not US citizens. That leaves 37 million uninsured who are Americans.

But there's more. In the same document, the Census also plainly states that "health-insurance coverage is underreported" in its survey. When it cross-checked its survey results with the official Medicaid rolls, it found that 16.9 percent of those on Medicaid had claimed on their Census forms that they were uninsured. That 16.9 percent amounts to 9 million people.

So the actual tally, according to the most authoritative source we have, is just 28 million uninsured citizens (46 million minus 9 million non-citizens, minus 9 million on Medicaid who were falsely recorded as uninsured).

To be more exact, it leaves 28,157,000 uninsured out of a total of 280,209,000. That leaves us with 90 percent of American citizens covered by insurance, according to the Census.

President Obama effectively agrees. In his recent speech to a joint session of Congress, he cited "more than 30 million American citizens who cannot get coverage." In a nation of almost 300 million people, that leaves something on the order of 90 percent who can get coverage.

So, who are the 28 million uninsured? The president suggests they're all people "who cannot get coverage." But the Census tallies suggest otherwise.

Many of the uninsured are young. People between the ages of 18 and 34 account for only 10 percent of the population, but 18 percent of the uninsured. They are generally healthy. Except in states like New York that have made it illegal for insurance companies to offer lower rates to younger, healthier people, these Americans can get insurance cheaply -- but many choose not to.

That may be problematic, but it doesn't suggest that they "cannot get coverage."

Then, too, the Census tells us that 47 percent of the uninsured (citizens or not) make over $50,000 a year. Since the median American family income is $50,740, this means that nearly half of those who are uninsured make more than most American families.

Indeed, more than a quarter of the uninsured (26 percent) make more than $75,000 a year -- at least $24,000 more than most Americans. With a few exceptions, these folks plainly aren't among those who "cannot get coverage."

None of this is to deny the high costs of health care -- which are often a serious burden for American families, and a key reason federal health programs are already by far the biggest contributor to the deficit. But it brings us to a simple but largely ignored truth: Only 5 percent of Americans are uninsured and making less than the median income. (And many among that 5 percent are already eligible for government programs).

For comparison, the Congressional Budget Office says that 6 percent of Americans would remain uninsured after 10 years under the bill passed by the Senate Finance Committee, which would spend nearly a trillion dollars, impose new taxes and fines of more than half a trillion and cut $400 billion-plus from Medicare and related programs -- while raising taxes and spending by more than three times as much in its second decade.

Whatever course we choose, it should be based on facts, not fears. And the costs associated with health reform must be weighed against the simple fact, reported by the Census, that 90 percent of Americans are already insured -- and well over half the rest can get insurance if they so choose.

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Aw Gunny, I want my matching his/hers jet skis, a new Limited Edition Tundra to pull my signature PWCs and 52" LED HD TV with the special sports package to not miss a game!!!

I gotta have all that mentioned above instead of any ole Health Insurance . . .

C'mon, its the American Way to have the govmint bail my worthless arse out in hard times brought on by ME . . .

Your Thread is Spot On!

Never let a fake crisis go to waste.

quote:

Originally posted by ELLIOTT1980:
Aw Gunny, I want my matching his/hers jet skis, a new Limited Edition Tundra to pull my signature PWCs and 52" LED HD TV with the special sports package to not miss a game!!!

I gotta have all that mentioned above instead of any ole Health Insurance . . .

C'mon, its the American Way to have the govmint bail my worthless arse out in hard times brought on by ME . . .

Your Thread is Spot On!

Hard to justify piling crap on crap and making new laws and policies unless you are trying to get control over people.

Yeah but...I have a right to your money.
I have a right to your labor.
You are indebted to ME which is why I am all for government mandated healthcare. It is my RIGHT!

BTW, It is also MY RIGHT to have a gun so I am waiting on my government paid for gun to arrive any day now. I want a .45acp Gold Cup with bone handles and a exhaust compensator mounted.

quote:

Originally posted by GunnyRet03:

quote:

Originally posted by ELLIOTT1980:
Aw Gunny, I want my matching his/hers jet skis, a new Limited Edition Tundra to pull my signature PWCs and 52" LED HD TV with the special sports package to not miss a game!!!

I gotta have all that mentioned above instead of any ole Health Insurance . . .

C'mon, its the American Way to have the govmint bail my worthless arse out in hard times brought on by ME . . .

Your Thread is Spot On!

Hard to justify piling crap on crap and making new laws and policies unless you are trying to get control over people.

Yepper..., but the Sheeple just don't see it that way...as "they" walk the chute to lambchop heaven . . .

So is there no reform needed?

A good friend of mine is self-employed, and diabetic (type 1). He lost his insurance shortly after he was diagnosed, and now cannot get any for himself, or his family - apparently they are ALSO too much of a risk. His wife, incidentally, has looked both thoroughly and knowledgably - before she became a stay at home mom she worked for an insurance company.

My daughter has a potentially life threatening illness - thankfully it is in remission and may never recur, but if it does I will almost certainly go bankrupt trying to keep her alive. My not insignificant income will not be enough when that "lifetime limit" runs out.

I do not think that the current compromise bill is worthwhile, but I definitely think some significant type of reform is needed. If only for economic reasons we either need some type of universal health care, or else we need to eliminate the legal requirement for obligatory emergency care.

I know too well of the shortcomings for paying insurance and healthcare costs. There are reforms that are needed. What we don't need is an entirely new rascal of a healthcare bill that does not help with the costs. A bill that addresses the cost problems would have much support. A bill that grows the government just has a lot of fertilizer.

According to Time Magazines analysis of the Census

time
1. One in six Americans are uninsured:
2. Most uninsured Americans work:
3. Unsurprisingly, the uninsured are in worse health:
4. Government programs are making a difference for children:
5. Young adults with no children are especially vulnerable:
6. Immigrants represent a minority of the uninsured:

Screw um. Who needs healthy kids and working poor, they would probably just take away something I derserve more anyway. Lets just let them all die, it'll make housing more available and cheaper.

quote:

Originally posted by catahoulagill:
I know too well of the shortcomings for paying insurance and healthcare costs. There are reforms that are needed. What we don't need is an entirely new rascal of a healthcare bill that does not help with the costs. A bill that addresses the cost problems would have much support. A bill that grows the government just has a lot of fertilizer.

But how do you address costs? It seems most of the Republican plan is to subsidize health care without changing it. This CANNOT address cost, because it does not change the system in any way, it just takes premiums out of current and future tax revenues instead of paychecks.

Cost controls that I can see:
1) Tort reform - modest savings, but important as a nod to Republicans and to help out doctors.
2) Universal coverage - because a lot of expenses are due to a lack of preventative and maintenance care that pushes non-emergencies into the emergency room, or even delays trivial matters until they are major.
3) Spend money on treating people instead of making money - the basic model for private insurance companies has them spending a lot of money on advertising, profits, and "cash retention" via denial of service. As many have pointed out, public health options in other countries are a lot more cash efficient because they do not have these issues.
4) Universal paperwork - each company uses their own forms and data systems. Making this common would provide significant savings in time and money.

NON-cost improvements that need to be made:
1) Eliminate pre-existing condition denials - ONLY POSSIBLE WITH UNIVERSAL COVERAGE, as otherwise this screams for abuse.
2) Eliminate life-time limits for severe cases - if nothing else, this would be a great government back-up to insurance, covering costs beyond the private insurance maximums.

Any others?

quote:

Originally posted by ThumperNM:
According to Time Magazines analysis of the Census

""http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1930096,00.html]""
1. One in six Americans are uninsured:
2. Most uninsured Americans work:
3. Unsurprisingly, the uninsured are in worse health:
4. Government programs are making a difference for children:
5. Young adults with no children are especially vulnerable:
6. Immigrants represent a minority of the uninsured:

Screw um. Who needs healthy kids and working poor, they would probably just take away something I derserve more anyway. Lets just let them all die, it'll make housing more available and cheaper.

First off, Time is a slanted reference, use a non-partisan one nexxt time.

So now you are saying our President is a liar, he said himself 10% were unisured, that would be 1 in 10.

Government programs for kids are cool however are you aware the government denies more medical treatment through Medicare and Medicaid then ANY private insurance company?

Last, but not least, read the TOS, your hotlink will get you spanked.

10%, 6% what's a few percent among the poor and downtrodden. 47 million unensured or 36 million uninsured it really doesn't matter, the point is they don't deserve health care. Most of them are just rabble anyway. Think how many less hours you would have to wait for your burger at McDonalds without these folks in line ahead of you.

quote:

Originally posted by ThumperNM:
10%, 6% what's a few percent among the poor and downtrodden. 47 million unensured or 36 million uninsured it really doesn't matter, the point is they don't deserve health care. Most of them are just rabble anyway. Think how many less hours you would have to wait for your burger at McDonalds without these folks in line ahead of you.

Who you think's gonna ask you if you want fries with that?

Whoops...forgot. Retirees trying to pay for their supplemental Medicare without earning too too much...

"Government programs for kids are cool however are you aware the government denies more medical treatment through Medicare and Medicaid then ANY private insurance company?"

Now there is a fact that's either unknown or overlooked on purpose...

You think the big, bad EVIL insurance companies are "letting people die".....just wait until Big Government gets ahold of your health care...

quote:

Originally posted by psychoABN:
"Government programs for kids are cool however are you aware the government denies more medical treatment through Medicare and Medicaid then ANY private insurance company?"

Now there is a fact that's either unknown or overlooked on purpose...

You think the big, bad EVIL insurance companies are "letting people die".....just wait until Big Government gets ahold of your health care...

psychoABN do you have a link or two that substantiates this. I'd like to read up on it.

quote:

Originally posted by ThumperNM:

quote:

Originally posted by psychoABN:
"Government programs for kids are cool however are you aware the government denies more medical treatment through Medicare and Medicaid then ANY private insurance company?"

Now there is a fact that's either unknown or overlooked on purpose...

You think the big, bad EVIL insurance companies are "letting people die".....just wait until Big Government gets ahold of your health care...

psychoABN do you have a link or two that substantiates this. I'd like to read up on it.

They are going to provide you a table of percentages with no further explanation. The problem is, they don't take into account contributing factors such as rather than deny claims, private insurance simply drop coverage or private insurance can be selective in who they insure in the first place while the federal government insures all that qualify.

It's a bogus table that only those with some sort of agenda will hang their hat on.

Pretty amazing that normal (well, maybe normal) middle class Americans would lobby against something in their best interest......unless they are basing their opposition on the lies, spin and distortion being heaped upon them. Get the facts!!!!

Maybe he got his information from here:

http://biggovernment.com/2009/10/05/ama-endorses-largest-denier-of-health-care-claims/



http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/368/reportcard.pdf

Of course just looking at the % doesn't tell the complete story. The guys over at Big Gov. depend on their visitors being under informed and take everything posted there as fact.

I found another site where another r-winger tried to pull the same dishonest numbers game. A poster there pointed out the smoke and mirrors, as Gunny says, that are used to hoodwink the true believers.

quote:

You think Glenn Beck has read this one yet? It's a great spinmeister talking point.

But actually, if you go back through and look at the numbers you'll find that remark code "16" accounted for 27.8% of the Medicare denials. That's a little more significant. According to the report remark code 16 is defined as:

"Claim/service lacks information which is needed for adjudication. At least one Remark Code must be provided (may be comprised of either the Remittance Advice Remark Code or NCPDP Reject Reason Code."

So bascially, just more than a quarter of the Medicare denials were due to improper paper work. While this could certainly be seen as an inefficiency in the system, take the 16s out and Medicare isn't looking so bad after all, about 4.95%. I didn't have time to go through and make this updated calculation for all of the companies, but Medicare had, by far, the largest number of 16s reported. Only one other company broke 10%.

Also you need to consider the demographics and quantity of people who makes up Medicare patients. All are over 65 or disabled - so you are comparing denials for a more young and healthy demographic of low-risk patients to people who are most likely to apply for more expensive (or end-of-life) medical care and therefore apply for what any insurance company would consider more questionable or experimental treatments. Combine the claims from all the private insurers and you still won't have the numbers on Medicare.

And lastly, Please show us where you got the "story" about Medicare denials for pre-existing conditions??? Or is that just another one of the usual Republican claims (lies) they think they can sneak in under the radar? Neither Medicare nor Medicaid exclude pre-existing conditions. Medicare (like any private insurer) will deny treatment for procedures that they do not deem medically necessary but you can't be disqualified for pre-exising conditions. The only thing close I could find to any truthiness to your claim is that Medigap can deny for pre-exiting conditions - and that is just a fracrtion of perecnt of government insured patients.

http://forums.starnewsonline.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/7341065438/m/2741089139/p/1

The poster then goes on to destroy the other two posters, RightGuy (boy is that descriptive) and midreader (a real lightweight) when all they can come back with is the libs only deflect when faced with THEIR facts. Never mind that they don't counter the opposing facts with more facts.

Did you notice in the chart that medicare processed 6 million plus claims as opposed to the numbers of the private health plans? So Weps, we can be encouraged that there are others pointing out the dishonest crap the right keeps feeding the seriously under informed with blinders on that the right so love to encourage to spread the swill.