quote:

Originally posted by billbright:
Drill
Coal
Nuclear
Bio fuels
Alcohol
Wind
Solar
Geothermal
Heavy on the gov't research

Let's get 'er done.

quote:

Originally posted by billbright:
Stewart Brand, author of Whole Earth Discipline, and admittedly a general blow-hard thinks we should go all out for nuclear. He's also a proponent of 'frankenfoods.' And he thinks we've moved too far up the chart to reverse the effects of global warming and need to do science to 'blot out the sun.' He thinks cities are a wonderful thing, too, allowing rural areas to revert to forest.

quote:

Yeah, zero carbon nuke power sure does make sense, too bad its evil...evil.

quote:

Originally posted by The_Bonesaw:
Not to mention that batteries have their own environmental issues (many that are more harmful than combustion engines). So you just end up shifting the damaging environmental effects to a point a little further down the road.

Also, batteries simply switch the source - you still have to get the electricity from somewhere. All you're doing is putting a drain on the system which would require more use from those energy plants that burn coal and and other fossil fuels.

quote:

In an effort to prove to disbelievers that hybrid and electric cars are indeed safe and more specifically that the batteries within would not cause environmental issues, BYD's CEO Wang Chuan-Fu actually drank battery fluid from a lithium ion battery manufactured by the company.

quote:

Originally posted by The_Bonesaw:
Not to mention that batteries have their own environmental issues (many that are more harmful than combustion engines). So you just end up shifting the damaging environmental effects to a point a little further down the road.

Also, batteries simply switch the source - you still have to get the electricity from somewhere. All you're doing is putting a drain on the system which would require more use from those energy plants that burn coal and and other fossil fuels.

quote:

Originally posted by john2x:

quote:

Originally posted by billbright:
Drill
Coal
Nuclear
Bio fuels
Alcohol
Wind
Solar
Geothermal
Heavy on the gov't research

Let's get 'er done.

When Pigs fly as long as theres a drop of oil left in the ground the oil conglomerates will never allow it to happen. far to profitable and controllable.

quote:

Originally posted by billbright:
I wouldn't bother having people wait for a recharge; that's where the Gov't comes in. They are the only ones who can change a paradigm to battery-swap stations. Nobody would 'own' their own batteries.

quote:

Originally posted by WepsFP:

quote:

Originally posted by The_Bonesaw:
Not to mention that batteries have their own environmental issues (many that are more harmful than combustion engines). So you just end up shifting the damaging environmental effects to a point a little further down the road.

Also, batteries simply switch the source - you still have to get the electricity from somewhere. All you're doing is putting a drain on the system which would require more use from those energy plants that burn coal and and other fossil fuels.

Nuclear Power has a bit of an effect on the environment as well. Until we figure what to do with spent nuclear material, we best move slow on this issue. Which state wants to store spent fuel from over 400 nuclear power plants?

Refine wind and solar technology. That's out best bet.

quote:

Originally posted by mnoble1066:

quote:

Originally posted by WepsFP:

quote:

Originally posted by The_Bonesaw:
Not to mention that batteries have their own environmental issues (many that are more harmful than combustion engines). So you just end up shifting the damaging environmental effects to a point a little further down the road.

Also, batteries simply switch the source - you still have to get the electricity from somewhere. All you're doing is putting a drain on the system which would require more use from those energy plants that burn coal and and other fossil fuels.

Nuclear Power has a bit of an effect on the environment as well. Until we figure what to do with spent nuclear material, we best move slow on this issue. Which state wants to store spent fuel from over 400 nuclear power plants?

Refine wind and solar technology. That's out best bet.

I'll have to agree with weps here. Nuclear energy does have major drawbacks.

We have the means here to be 100% energy independent, the problem is corporate greed. We put a man on the moon back in 1969, surely we have the technology to be energy independent and cheaper fuels. That would be a major boost to the economy.

All this being said by a conservative. I believe in capitolism, but not monopolies. Or big Industries needlessly producing higher prices.

quote:

Originally posted by john2x:

quote:

Yeah, zero carbon nuke power sure does make sense, too bad its evil...evil.

Evil, Evil, How so when properly monitored? The Military dont seem to believe that and have been using it safely for many years now. Or dont our troops count?

quote:

Originally posted by The_Bonesaw:
400 new nuclear power plants is all it would take to make the United States 100% energy efficient.

Since we now use more oil than just about all other countries combined, we would also see a dramatic drop in oil prices as a bonus since we'd only be using it to fuel automobiles at that point.

quote:

Originally posted by floersh:

quote:

Originally posted by billbright:
I wouldn't bother having people wait for a recharge; that's where the Gov't comes in. They are the only ones who can change a paradigm to battery-swap stations. Nobody would 'own' their own batteries.

You guys.. You never cease to amaze me. The government setup a department called the DOE (Department of Energy) over 3 decades ago. it has been a COMPLETE FAILURE.

The government is the one group that will NEVER SOLVE THIS. And any plan that requires them to succeed is doomed to fail.

As for the battery swap idea. Good idea but you make it sound like these batteries are laptop batteries. They are not. They are far bigger and far more of them then anything you'd be used to seeing in an existing car or hybrid. It would not be a simple chore to replace them and it would restrict significantly designers ability to distribute the weight around the vehicle.

Just as an example. The Chevy Volt will have 220 power cells distributed along the center line under carriage of the vehicle. The total weight of the cells will be 375lbs. How long do you think it would take to swap those out? And to do so would require the vehicle be jacked up to access them.

quote:

Technology Transfer
at the U.S. Department of Energy

An Engine of Innovation, Invention and Economic Growth

Estimates are that fully half the growth in the American economy in the last 50 years was due to funding of scientific and technological innovation.

Research investments by the Department of Energy have yielded a wealth of dividends, including new intellectual capital, significant technological innovations, medical and health advances, enhanced economic competitiveness, and improved quality of life for the American people.

Many of these scientific breakthroughs and societal benefits have been produced by researchers at DOE's national laboratories, often called the 'crown jewels' of our national research infrastructure.

The Energy Department's national laboratories, and the universities and companies that partner with them, have long been the conduits for technology transfer, collaborating to develop and commercialize energy products and processes for commercial use.

Facilitating innovation, invention and commercialization through technology transfer is central to the Department of Energy’s mission to advance the Nation’s energy, national and economic security.
"http://www.energy.gov"

quote:

Originally posted by WepsFP:

quote:

Originally posted by mnoble1066:

quote:

Originally posted by WepsFP:

quote:

Originally posted by The_Bonesaw:
Not to mention that batteries have their own environmental issues (many that are more harmful than combustion engines). So you just end up shifting the damaging environmental effects to a point a little further down the road.

Also, batteries simply switch the source - you still have to get the electricity from somewhere. All you're doing is putting a drain on the system which would require more use from those energy plants that burn coal and and other fossil fuels.

Nuclear Power has a bit of an effect on the environment as well. Until we figure what to do with spent nuclear material, we best move slow on this issue. Which state wants to store spent fuel from over 400 nuclear power plants?

Refine wind and solar technology. That's out best bet.

I'll have to agree with weps here. Nuclear energy does have major drawbacks.

We have the means here to be 100% energy independent, the problem is corporate greed. We put a man on the moon back in 1969, surely we have the technology to be energy independent and cheaper fuels. That would be a major boost to the economy.

All this being said by a conservative. I believe in capitolism, but not monopolies. Or big Industries needlessly producing higher prices.

I believe I've crapped my pants. It's good to know that we have common ground on at least one issue.

quote:

Originally posted by Tangler:
but The real problem is from the White House and Congress. Each time they change from conservatives to liberals, the priorities change there.

quote:

Originally posted by floersh:

quote:

Originally posted by Tangler:
but The real problem is from the White House and Congress. Each time they change from conservatives to liberals, the priorities change there.

So in other words the problem is government!

The only other conclusion I can come to from that is you think we should have only a single party and it should remain in power indefinitely and I doubt that was your intent.

quote:

Originally posted by Tangler:

quote:

Originally posted by floersh:

quote:

Originally posted by Tangler:
but The real problem is from the White House and Congress. Each time they change from conservatives to liberals, the priorities change there.

So in other words the problem is government!

The only other conclusion I can come to from that is you think we should have only a single party and it should remain in power indefinitely and I doubt that was your intent.

Yep, partison politics, Nope single party, just they can only vote for it once ever 6 years... the rest of the time is spent on their other bussiness. Means all the Dept.s have their budget for the 6 years and can set their priorities for those 6 years and not worry if their funding goes away ever year.

quote:

Originally posted by floersh:

quote:

Originally posted by Tangler:

quote:

Originally posted by floersh:

quote:

Originally posted by Tangler:
but The real problem is from the White House and Congress. Each time they change from conservatives to liberals, the priorities change there.

So in other words the problem is government!

The only other conclusion I can come to from that is you think we should have only a single party and it should remain in power indefinitely and I doubt that was your intent.

Yep, partison politics, Nope single party, just they can only vote for it once ever 6 years... the rest of the time is spent on their other bussiness. Means all the Dept.s have their budget for the 6 years and can set their priorities for those 6 years and not worry if their funding goes away ever year.

Well I can't say for sure what would result from that. But it seems on the surface that could result in less efficiency just as easily as it could result in longer term prioritization.

Personally, I prefer free market principals which can both react in the short term and maintain long term goals.

If that was true, we wouldn't keep having these crashes.

If the government wants to play a part it can start busting those monopolies and other anti-competitive business practices including tax laws which enable it.

quote:

Originally posted by floersh:

quote:

Originally posted by billbright:
I wouldn't bother having people wait for a recharge; that's where the Gov't comes in. They are the only ones who can change a paradigm to battery-swap stations. Nobody would 'own' their own batteries.

You guys.. You never cease to amaze me. The government setup a department called the DOE (Department of Energy) over 3 decades ago. it has been a COMPLETE FAILURE.

The government is the one group that will NEVER SOLVE THIS. And any plan that requires them to succeed is doomed to fail.

As for the battery swap idea. Good idea but you make it sound like these batteries are laptop batteries. They are not. They are far bigger and far more of them then anything you'd be used to seeing in an existing car or hybrid. It would not be a simple chore to replace them and it would restrict significantly designers ability to distribute the weight around the vehicle.

Just as an example. The Chevy Volt will have 220 power cells distributed along the center line under carriage of the vehicle. The total weight of the cells will be 375lbs. How long do you think it would take to swap those out? And to do so would require the vehicle be jacked up to access them.