Is Mexico winning its war on drugs?

(CNN) -- Mexico's arrest of drug cartel suspects has become fairly commonplace. On Thursday, it was six suspected members of La Familia, based in Michoacan. A day earlier, it was a man identified as a top leader of the ruthless Zetas.

Whether the arrests are making any difference in President Felipe Calderon's war on the narcotraffickers is another question.

Some analysts see them as proof that Calderon was right to declare an all-out fight after taking office in December 2006.

"The most important thing is that the Mexican government is on the offensive," said Bernard Aronson, U.S. assistant secretary of state for inter-American affairs from 1989 to 1993. "They're not in a state of denial. They're getting going."

Other analysts are not so sure, particularly since more than 12,000 people have been killed since Calderon became president.

"It's really more of the same," said John Mill Ackerman, a professor at the National Autonomous University of Mexico. "This doesn't necessarily give me confidence as to the success of government strategy."

Ciudad Juarez, on the U.S. border and the main battleground for the cartels, has already recorded 2,000 drug-related fatalities this year. Officials point out that most of those killings involve criminals doing each other in. That doesn't matter, some analysts say.

"Mexicans are paying a huge price," said Ana Maria Salazar, a television and radio political commentator in Mexico City. "The rest of the world does not understand the price that's being paid."

Still, Salazar said, the war needed to be waged.

"I'm not sure where this is going, but something had to be done," she said.

Full article at...

>>>http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/10/22/mexico.cartel.arrest/index.html

Mexico, in my opine, haven't even gotten started in addressing THEIR problem of a Drug War...sure its gotta be our fault...

WE corrupted their leadership, judicial system, initiated a conspiracy to keep Mexico down...NOT (for you Korn...)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ELLIOTT1980,

How are we keeping Mexico down? We take the people in that they dont want. Also living next to us means they have no external enemies to speak of as no one would attack them because we wouldnt allow anything to happen so close to our soil. Therefore they can spend nothing on their military comparatively, as if they had any money to spend on a military anyway. But I fail to see how and where we keep them down in any way.

quote:

Originally posted by ELLIOTT1980:
Mexico, in my opine, haven't even gotten started in addressing THEIR problem of a Drug War...sure its gotta be our fault...

WE corrupted their leadership, judicial system, initiated a conspiracy to keep Mexico down...NOT (for you Korn...)

Your Sarcasm is, unfortunately PARTIALLY correct. the Cartels were fighting over the drug passages in the USA market. you know... the drug corridors (i-95, I-5, etc).
most of the success of the Mexico cartel came from the glut Americans have for drugs.
if we really want to help Mexico, we have to deal with our OWN drug problems. Maybe some of that "socialist medicine" plan everyone is up in arms over could work in our benefit by using it for rehab programs.

Simple Supply and Demand, someone has to supply the Americans insatiable appetite for drugs.

quote:

Is Mexico winning its war on drugs?

Maybe they're just not losing as badly as before.

I normally go to the Mexican state of Veracruz in January. I had to turn down the upcoming trip with the Lions to dispense eyeglasses, however. Asthma and bad atmospheres don't mix too well. But, there were other concerns for all of us this year: that was where H1N1 originated, and there is the threat of drug cartel related kidnappings. These things didn't scare me as much as having an attack for which I might need emergency medical attention, though.

There are beautiful, wonderful people in Mexico. Warm, loving people. I'm going to miss them.

I don't know if they are or not, but what I do know is they should do like we are doing here in the states. Give up the drug trade altogether. It is getting too large and the prices are falling. Not to mention that if caught you could be looking at hard time for a long time. Why not go into Medicare fraud? It pays better and the odds of getting caught are much less than they are for selling drugs. As a bonus, you won't serve a long sentence in jail if caught. Its worth checking out I would say.

quote:

Originally posted by Duster6:
".....Why not go into Medicare fraud? It pays better and the odds of getting caught are much less than they are for selling drugs. As a bonus, you won't serve a long sentence in jail if caught. Its worth checking out I would say".

Duster, the Russian immigrants have that market... making a killing too. (no, er, pun intended.)

Oh sure,it's crimnials doing in crimnials. And a whole bunch of private citizens too. Last spring a student my wife had a few years ago died from a gun shot wound while visiting her grandmother. It is drifting into the States, a U.S. Federal worker was shot in front of the Mexican counsulate in downtown E.P. Tx. and slowly more killings are happening. The FBI are looking for a druggie believed to be holed up somewhere over here.

To me, the War on Drugs and border security are far more important than the missions in the Middle East that we seem to favor, in spite of our own weak defenses here on this continent. Sure, there's an element of the War on Drugs in Afghanistan and the other 'stans, but they're more Europe's problem than ours. Europeans are the ones who should be footing the bill for security in that neighborhood.

Our war against drug and crime entry into the states is pathetic. During my military time, there was probably actually more effort going into it, with constant infiltration into Columbia and other south American areas. But, our border patrol and drug agencies have always been woefully undermanned and under financed. Our National Guard Civil Engineers Squadron went a couple of times to build things for them, and those poor basterds had to deal with WWII facilities and a skeleton crew. Pathetic.

And, why is that? Because so many voters and gov't reps are falling for the 'legalize drugs' malarkey. Drugs are so viral and so addicting that they turn our kids into marauding, thieving, disobedient drug zombies, sometimes with a single high.

Secure our borders. Stop the drugs, the killings, and the thieving. This is military job one.

According to Wiki:

While 90% of the guns traced to the U.S. actually originated in the United States,[46][52][53][54][55] it seems to be only 17% of the total number of guns reaching Mexico.[56] The ATF has reportedly traced 22,848 guns smuggled into Mexico from the United States since 2005,[57][58] and it showed that between 2005 and 2008, Texas,[57][59] Arizona and California are the three most prolific source states, respectively, for firearms illegally trafficked to Mexico.[60][46][61][62][63] About 55% of guns smuggled from U.S. are assault rifles.[64][65] Mexican officials only submitted 32% of the guns they seized to the ATF for tracing, and less than half of those weapons had serial numbers. Overall, 83% of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced.[56][66]

Mexican cartels often pay U.S. citizens to purchase assault rifles or other guns at gun shops or gun shows, then sell them to a cartel representative.[

Why Yes, it is because they have opened up
all thier selling here.

Wiki As a Source?

How about the ATF?

The 90% comes from 90% of the serial numbers provided to ATF, not 90% of the confiscated guns. Its already been shown that South Korean K400 Series Fragmentation Grenades(Hanwha Corp), Class III Full Auto weapons, and U.S. Contract weapons from the Guatemalan Government, Mexican Government were in that number.H&K Military Contract Green G-3 rifles (Unavailable in the USA but standard issue in Mexico and El Salvador).

If Colt makes a M4 for the Guatemalan Army and it is stolen and smuggled into Mexico through their exceedingly porous southern border- claiming it to be sold by rednecks aint gonna cut it.


In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced -- and of those, 90 percent -- 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover -- were found to have come from the U.S.

But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.

In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.

So, if not from the U.S., where do they come from? There are a variety of sources:

-- The Black Market. Mexico is a virtual arms bazaar, with fragmentation grenades from South Korea, AK-47s from China, and shoulder-fired rocket launchers from Spain, Israel and former Soviet bloc manufacturers.

-- Russian crime organizations. Interpol says Russian Mafia groups such as Poldolskaya and Moscow-based Solntsevskaya are actively trafficking drugs and arms in Mexico.

- South America. During the late 1990s, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) established a clandestine arms smuggling and drug trafficking partnership with the Tijuana cartel, according to the Federal Research Division report from the Library of Congress.

-- Asia. According to a 2006 Amnesty International Report, China has provided arms to countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America. Chinese assault weapons and Korean explosives have been recovered in Mexico.

-- The Mexican Army. More than 150,000 soldiers deserted in the last six years, according to Mexican Congressman Robert Badillo. Many took their weapons with them, including the standard issue M-16 assault rifle made in Belgium.

-- Guatemala. U.S. intelligence agencies say traffickers move immigrants, stolen cars, guns and drugs, including most of America's cocaine, along the porous Mexican-Guatemalan border. On March 27, La Hora, a Guatemalan newspaper, reported that police seized 500 grenades and a load of AK-47s on the border. Police say the cache was transported by a Mexican drug cartel operating out of Ixcan, a border town.


The Mexican government said it has seized 2,239 grenades in the last two years -- but those grenades and the rocket-propelled grenades (RPGs) are unavailable in U.S. gun shops. The ones used in an attack on the U.S. Consulate in Monterrey in October and a TV station in January were made in South Korea. Almost 70 similar grenades were seized in February in the bottom of a truck entering Mexico from Guatemala.

"Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semi-automatic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California," according to a report in the Los Angeles Times.


XXXhttp://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/counting-mexicos-guns/XXX

Some Images:

Of note are the Russian PBS Suppressors (silencers to Civvies) Serbian Rifle Grenades South Korean Grenades, etc. RPG-7

Line Doggie . . ., Too much information for LIBs to digest..., they'll choke.

Excellent Post, I particularly like the pics, I'm a visual kinda guy...

But, but...., this cannot be, cause the LIBs believe its "our" fault, and they're not to be confused with all this . . .

Keep it coming, Line Doggie

MEXICO CITY — Mexico’s top security official on Friday proposed disbanding Mexico’s 2,022 municipal police forces and combining them with state law enforcement agencies to better combat corruption and crime.

Local police have fewer resources to fight crime, and their lower salaries make them more susceptible to corruption, Mexican Public Safety Secretary Genaro Garcia Luna said.

“Public safety should be a state policy,” he added.

Consolidating police forces would improve communication among officials, he said, and bring greater security to areas where local police have traditionally lacked the means to fight crime. Nearly 90 percent of the country’s municipal police forces have staffs of less than 100 people, he said.

Garcia Luna spoke to reporters at the end of a meeting of public safety chiefs from Mexico’s 31 states and the capital, where officials presented a report titled “A New Police Model.”

The report describes local police as “an easy target for corruption,” with more than 60 percent of them receiving monthly salaries of only 4,000 pesos (about $300). Most of them have completed less than 10 years of schooling and are either at basic education levels or illiterate, according to the report.

XXXhttp://blog.taragana.com/n/mexicos-top-cop-proposes-disbanding-local-police-forces-to-combat-corruption-213400/XXX

Line Doggie,

The State taking over all LE duties may become a "double edged sword..."

Good, the State LE will have the resources and special training.

Bad, the locals will not have a habitual relationship with their State LE...Confidential Informants may be hard to come by, as well...

Theres also the issue of Local LEO who for admin reason cant be Fed Police (education, etc) they now would be unemployed, knowlegable of Police Procedures, likely to flee with their uniforms and weapons to the Narcos.

There is a whole sub culture in mexico of Narco hero's

Narco-Corrido Music is quite popular

XXXhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3552370.stmXXX

XXXhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYkIDNYHiNQ&feature=relatedXXX

Google translation, so forgive if it's not a perfect english transliteration*

Notimex
El Universal
Mexico City
Friday October 30, 2009

The National Defense Secretariat reported the arrest of Orlando Nava Valencia aka "The Wolf", identified as one of the important leaders of "The Valencia" cartel, who was captured a few days ago in the community of Tlajomulco de Zuniga, in the state of Jalisco.

According to the statement from the army, he is one of the closest collaborators of Ignacio Coronel Villarreal (a) "Nacho Coronel", he will be presented this afternoon at the premises of the Assistant Attorney General for Special Investigations and Organized Crime in Mexico City.

Along with Nava Valencia, nine members of his criminal group were also arrested, among whom stands Ángel Bejar Chávez, aka "The Chinese".

XXXhttp://www.eluniversal.com.mx/notas/636934.htmlXXX

quote:

Originally posted by LineDoggie:

Theres also the issue of Local LEO who for admin reason cant be Fed Police (education, etc) they now would be unemployed, knowlegable of Police Procedures, likely to flee with their uniforms and weapons to the Narcos.

There is a whole sub culture in mexico of Narco hero's

Narco-Corrido Music is quite popular

XXXhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3552370.stmXXX

XXXhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYkIDNYHiNQ&feature=relatedXXX

True. Mexico is already facing a desertion average rate of 1200 Soldiers monthly, putting the annual amount average of around 16K!

Like the local LEOs, the MEX Army Deserters take with them their: weapons, uniforms, training, radios, hummers, body armor, etc...

Mexico has a long long road to hold before their mess is cleaned up. With our almost open border, it will only exasperate the problem...

The well to do dealers can live in USA in comfort and send messages to their LTs on dealings, executions, daily operations...

Mexico extradites record number to U.S.

(CNN) -- Mexico extradited 11 fugitives to the United States over the weekend, putting 2009's total Mexico-to-U.S. extraditions at the highest yearly level ever, the U.S. Department of Justice said Sunday.

Saturday's extraditions put 2009's total at 100, breaking last year's record of 95, the Department of Justice said in a news release.

One tactic employed by the government of Mexican President Felipe Calderon in his offensive against drug cartels has been to increase extraditions of those facing charges in the United States.

Drug traffickers have been known to escape from Mexican prisons or to continue to operate inside them. Proponents of increased extraditions say U.S. prisons provide a more severe punishment.

Of the 11 people extradited over the weekend, four were wanted on drug-related charges, the Department of Justice said.

The others faced charges of murder, sexual assault, robbery and other crimes. The 11 face charges in Texas, Florida, California, Maryland and the District of Columbia.

"Each year since 2001, Mexico has increased the number of defendants it extradites to the United States," U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder said in a statement. "By ensuring that alleged criminals are held accountable, we send a strong message that fleeing across the border does not mean you will escape justice."

Holder is scheduled to meet Monday with Mexico's new attorney general, Arturo Chavez.

>>>http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/01/mexico.us.extraditions/index.html