I always say my grandma died of Alzheimer's but, technically, she didn't.

However, the grandma I knew and loved died long before she physically left us. What a cruel disease, especially for the family members. I left in tears almost every time I visited her, which was regularly. But, I wouldn't have missed a visit for the world.

Strange, but a few of my siblings didn't have the need and urge to visit her like I did during those last years. (And each of them are beautiful and sweet people; it's a family thing.)

I tried to get them to visit her, but I always heard the same thing ... "She doesn't know us." "She won't remember our visit." I always replied that we know HER and we didn't know for sure what/who she knew or didn't know. And, thank God, I was given proof of this. I found out for sure she knew me and knew I was there. A gift.



BTW - my grandma's Alzheimer's came on full force in one instant. She was a widow who had her own apartment, drove, had a volunteer job with seniors, scored high on the bowling league, played a mean game of Bingo, loved life, was funny, etc, etc.

She was mugged, thrown to the ground and broke her hip. That same day, she left us mentally. I've read about how a serious injury to a senior will throw them into full blown Alzheimer's. Prior to the attack, she was already showing a few signs of forgetfulness and our family was concerned. But, in that moment when she was mugged, that ended her life as she and we knew it. Again, Alzheimer's ... horrible.

Anyway, I'm just throwing this subject out there. Trying to solve a mystery ... to visit or not to visit? And why? thnx

Hi PB - long time no see.

I'm sorry to hear about your grandmother. My grandmother was 93 when she died, and had been in her own apartment - HOURS away from any of the family - until she was 91. She had colon cancer, had surgery, and never recovered enough to live independently after that. She developed a case of the "dwindles" and slowly withdrew from life until she died two years later.

Alzheimer's is a strange and cruel disease, so there is no good answer to your question that I can see. For some people (patients themselves), visits from family are good mental stimulants that keep them a little more in touch with the world around them. For others who seem totally out of touch, who can tell if they know or not?

For their family members - well, some people just can't do it, any more than they can visit loved ones who are dying of cancer or any other disease. Others want to be near them as long as possible.

As I see it, there's no wrong or right answer. You found the right answer for you - that's what matters.

My grandfather died with dementia over 30 years ago. Although this was not strictly Alzheimer's, it was a very similar condition. His condition came on gradually over many years, starting with periods of mild confusion, and ending with him in a residential home, where he could receive appropriate health care. The home was in the town where he and all the family had lived for some time.

Towards the end, it was very difficult, and yet strangely touching: he had been slipping back and forth between the present and the past for some time, and at the end he seemed to be permanently in the past. He told everybody who would listen that he had met a beautiful young woman on the boat to Australia, that he was besotted with her, and was going to marry her. This was all true - except that it had happened over 40 years earlier, and the woman in question was my grandmother, his wife. This meant that, for the last few days of his life, his confusion had disappeared, despair had been replaced by hope, and he was ecstatically happy.

I was a teenager at the time, and all I could see was that I was losing my beloved grandfather, a man who was in many ways a father to me after my parents' divorce - he no longer knew me. With hindsight (and a more mature outlook, I hope), I can be grateful that he died a happy man, and that I was able to see at least an echo of the man he had once been.

Personally, and admittedly for selfish reasons, I shall be eternally grateful that I was encouraged to visit him in those last days. We each have to make our own decisions, and there is no right or wrong answer.

It sounds as though your grandmother was an important part of your life, as my grandfather was in mine. I am happy for you that you received your proof, a true gift indeed.

Ahh PB I know how hard it was to visit your Grandmother, I know the pain and heartache.

My Dad has been diagnosed with Alzheimers. I sometimes wonder though.

He as Britishally described his Grandfather is living in a different time and place. If you compare a photo taken of my Grandmother when she was in her 50s and myself - well we could be twins. Dad thinks I am his Mom and it is around the time when my Mom and he married. Which was 1932.

He shares things with me that only a son who was very close to his Mom would share with her. It is so ironic the man I see now - the him then - is so, so different - as is it should be - than when we were growing up. I see him as a special individual - not as his daughter - but as an adult who admires the man he is - and was then.

In many ways it strikes to my very core that Dad does not see me as his daughter any more, yet in a strange way it is also - how do I say - a doorway into the past and a privilege for me for him to view me as his Mom. Something that my sisters do not have.

I have a chance to know our father at a different time in his life, before we came. Yet I am also sharing this part of his life as our whole family is.

It hurts thinking about this, and I don't want to say much more.

My Dad according to the Dr. will not be with us much longer. All I can say to you is this every, every minute with him is the most precious gift God could give us.

Remember that and remember also hold each moment close to your heart for all time.

No matter who he sees me as, he will always, always have that very, very special place in my heart that a girl's Father holds.

I hope this makes sense to you,

Frisco

It is a sad disease however, within it there is also mixure of gold.

In the last portion of my father's illness, I found out many details that were never part of my childhood. The one that stood out the most was learning that he was a feather weight boxer when he was a teen. And he would talk about his life in the Navy.

As hard as it is to go, those treasures would not have been received without the sacrifice.

Visit.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: charlie_echo,

Come on now...haven't we all seen "The Notebook" by now, even if most of us guys won't want to admit it.




Don

my grandmother passed away with alzheimers, the last 2 years of her life she only knew two people, me and my son, she didn't know anybody else. at the present time, my father-in-law is slowly slipping that way, he has good days and bad days. i worked in a nursing home for awhile and was on the alzheimers wing, it is a viscious, cruel disease. i loved working with them, but to watch someone slowly degenerate like that is hard to deal with. as far as visiting goes, my grandmother lived with my mother, i visited her daily and was the one that took her to the doctors. i personaly believe that when my dad died, my grandmothers alzheimers caused it. my dad had by-pass surgery and was home alone with my grandmother, he had a heart attack and the only number she could remember was her other daughter 30 miles away, she called her, who in turn called my mom's neighbor, who in turn called 911, the whole process took about 15 minutes, paramedics arrived roughly 25 minutes after he had it. i don't blame my grandmother for not calling 911, it wasn't her fault, after dad died in '99, my grandmother started slipping away until she passed in '02 only knowing two people. visiting someone with alzheimers can be a good thing, it does help orient them to themselves and family.

I treat Alzheimer patients all the time. They scream and ramble and are usually lost in confusion. They look straight through the faces of their families and loved ones. It is such a shame. And, there are no answers for the families.

Your right and there are no answers for anyone to date including the researchers who are working on the problem...a few meds are now on the street, approved by FDA...and seem to help but no cures to date.

PB,
Earlier there was a posting on a similar topic and I responded to Opal. Since it follows along with your topic, I'll post it here:
**http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5291911282/m/8920076522001?r=3770028522001#3770028522001

One thing....my uncle does know that my Aunt comes to visit him each day. Her being there has greatly increased his quality of life.

Do check into support groups for the family.

HI Cider! I really wish there was a right or wrong answer because it seems so clear to me. My grandma passed away in 2007, so much of the major grief has subsided - as she would want. However, you really hit the nail on the head by mentioning cancer patients. That's what got me thinking about this subject again. My dear friend recently lost his brother to cancer and much of his grief has been because certain family members would not/could not visit their dying brother. WTH? We simply can't figure this out. I'd be guilt-ridden if I behaved like that. Oh well - thanks for your thoughts.

~~~~~~

BritishAlly - thanks, the story of your grandfather is very touching, heartwarming. And you recalled it as if it were just yesterday. May I ask - who was it that encouraged you to visit him during his last days? I'm soo glad you did! Thanks also for mentioning the "gift" I received in the end --- I swear it was straight from Heaven. I call it a miracle. ahhh, another chapter - for another day.

~~~~~~

Awwww, Frisco - you really do understand. Thank you. Without even knowing you, I'm so proud of you for staying the course, right by his side. You'll never have any regrets, dear ... but I'm so sorry for are going through this. No doubt you and I have shared the same emotions and tears. Your dad must have brought you up right to be such a wonderful daughter.

~~~~~~

Charlie - you, like some others, experienced what I never did. I'm happy for all of you. My grandma was almost totally withdrawn the last two years of her life. However, surprisingly, when I would take her to Bible study every Wednesday, which mostly involved singing gospel hymns, she came back to life! During those hours, she would sit up straight in her chair and sing every word (loudly) - she knew all the songs by heart. It was amazing to me. I loved sitting next to her and holding her hand, singing right along with her. But, when the service was over, she would withdraw again. No matter what, I'd do it all again - and wish I could. thnx.

~~~~~~

21USCG -- I've never heard of "The Notebook." But, thanks, I'll make a note of it.

~~~~~~

Blane and Seth -- how wonderful that the two of you have worked directly with this disease. It really takes a special person to do that day in and day out. And Blane, it sounds like your family has been through a lot. The 911 story alone ... my goodness. Certainly you've been a blessing and comfort to your family over the tough years. And since you have both worked directly with Alzheimer's - I wanted to tell you, the sign that hangs over the Alzheimer's wing here simply says, "Enter With a Happy Heart." Doesn't that say it all?

~~~~~~

Dragon - true, there are no real answers for the families. I suppose we'll never know how we'll react until we are faced with it. For me, I wanted to be with her all the time and literally put so much of my life "on hold" to do that. Geeez, I wish I could understand the "other side" ..... those who simply stay away and/or make excuses not to be there. As Cider mentioned, this "staying away" problem is not limited to Alzheimer's and the elderly. I suppose I'll go to my grave not knowing why good people reject their loved ones during their dying days. *sigh* .... they have missed so much.

~~~~~~~

HI AW! Good to see you, lady. I haven't seen Opal's thread, but will check it out. Thnx! As for the family counseling - Hospice offers grief counseling. However, in my line of work, I deal with death all the time and believe I have the "tools" to handle it. Absolutely, it's much harder when it's one of your own.

Finally, by starting the thread, I was hoping to better understand the "staying away" problem. I'm sure we have some good people among us who have traveled that path. Granted, it's personal and probably difficult to explain. If anyone is moved to shed some light on it, I'd much appreciate it. You see, it's easier to ask this question to virtual strangers than it is to ask our own loved ones ... who were no-shows. (I won't be asking them and they have no idea it's on my mind.)

For those who shared, thanks again for the heartwarming stories of courage and love. xox

PB - Good to see you too.
Regarding my post, though, no I'm not talking about dealing with death. I'm talking about dealing with the living. My Uncle is very much alive. His health is pretty good. He is still there -- he still has feelings, though, his memories are not there nor is the personality that we knew and loved.

My Aunt has to deal with the loss of the companionship that they shared, along with the role reversal (he was always protective and took care of her) where she now takes care of him. Yet she must deal with basically a stranger and have the patience to get that stranger to share some trust in you amidst their constant confusion. My Aunt says that every once in awhile she gets a glimpse of the old husband and it makes her time with him so very worth every minute.

---- Never hurts to visit.. good for the Karma, good for the soul...

quote:

Originally posted by aggie_swife:
PB - Good to see you too.
Regarding my post, though, no I'm not talking about dealing with death. I'm talking about dealing with the living. My Uncle is very much alive. His health is pretty good. He is still there -- he still has feelings, though, his memories are not there nor is the personality that we knew and loved.

My Aunt has to deal with the loss of the companionship that they shared, along with the role reversal (he was always protective and took care of her) where she now takes care of him. Yet she must deal with basically a stranger and have the patience to get that stranger to share some trust in you amidst their constant confusion. My Aunt says that every once in awhile she gets a glimpse of the old husband and it makes her time with him so very worth every minute.

Wow - that's a real love story there. Talk about "for better or for worse." And your Aunt is stronger than she probably ever thought she was. God bless her!

And all of a sudden you reminded me of something sweet when you mentioned getting a glimpse of their former self. Thank you!

Rare as it was, every now and then my grandma would make a certain facial expression or just hold her head in a certain way and I could tell that she was still in there. No words spoken. She hadn't left completely. Wow, yes, those moments were special.

All the best to you and yours, AW. You've got a sweet heart.

quote:

Originally posted by LuckySoFar:
---- Never hurts to visit.. good for the Karma, good for the soul...

There you go! Thank you.

quote:

BritishAlly - thanks, the story of your grandfather is very touching, heartwarming. And you recalled it as if it were just yesterday. May I ask - who was it that encouraged you to visit him during his last days? I'm soo glad you did! Thanks also for mentioning the "gift" I received in the end --- I swear it was straight from Heaven. I call it a miracle. ahhh, another chapter - for another day.

Not only did I recall it as though it was yesterday, but I also had to break off mid-post to dry my eyes! The memory still has the power to affect me. He was a truly wonderful man, brought up in poverty in the docklands of Birkenhead (near Liverpool), trained as a chef, joined the Merchant Navy, in which he served with distinction in WWII, and was a man of immense dignity and honour. He was the most patriotic Brit I have ever met, which would come as a surprise to some here, if they knew his leftist beliefs. His patriotism was founded in a love of, and regard for, his fellow citizens, and a desire to make this country as good a place as it can be for its citizens. Indeed, although he considered himself a left-winger in his day, his beliefs were based around equality of opportunity, not hand outs, and so perhaps he would agree with many here, after all.

It was an uncle who persuaded me to visit him, and looking back I feel fairly certain that this was a plan cooked up between my uncle and my mother. Much as I have always loved my mother, a teenage boy does not always greet a mother's suggestions with the consideration they deserve (I am now ashamed to admit). My uncle is younger than my mother, and I was more likely to listen to him. I am glad I did!

PB
I was one of those that couldn't bring myself to visit my grandmother in the nursing home.
She was 89 when she passed. Her entire life, she was always the most exiting, interesting person you could imagine. Think, female Indiana Jones. She was still doing calisthenics every morning when she was 88 that were comparable to the PT that I did in the Army.
Nine months before she died she went in for simple surgery on her knee to fix a torn ligament. When she woke up from surgery she had no idea who or where she was. She never went home from the hospital. She went to a nursing home.
My mom and aunt and uncle (her kids) visited her all the time and I tried to visit, but every time I went I would leave feeling physically sick to my stomach. This was not the person I had grown up with. It was like she was already dead inside and I was just talking to her body.
The one time I saw her lucid in the nursing home was on her birthday. The whole family was there and everyone was talking to her and asking her how she was doing. Suddenly she stood up and said very loudly “Leave me alone!” Everybody just ignored her, laughed it off and acted like nothing happened. The next day she stopped eating, and within three days she was gone.
Call me weak or selfish, or whatever but I can relate to the people that would rather have good memories of their loved ones. Rather than have their last memories be of a stranger that looks just like the person they loved.

My grandmother is almost 90 and has dementia. She is in a state of confusion and has difficulty expressing herself. It can be a difficult experience at times. I try to engage her in mentally stimulating activities like playing puzzle games, but there's only so much one can do, plus it takes willpower. My cousin's grandmother is 93, lives in the country and still goes out regularly, tills the soil, plants crops, etc. Anyway, I visit her weekly to see her and to, if nothing else, try to make her life more comfortable where I can.

quote:

Originally posted by PinkBlossoms:

~~~~~~

21USCG -- I've never heard of "The Notebook." But, thanks, I'll make a note of it.

~~~~~~

I have to admit, it's a great movie. Have your tissues ready.

Don

I have one patient now whom we are caring for. Her dementia is so bad. The husband won't leave her side (poor guy). After 30 + years of marriage, he can't accept the fact that she is on her way and that he'll never again see the woman he maried.

We all feel for him, but this guy is getting i the way at times. He hasn't showered, shaved, or taken his meds in almost a week because he won't leave the hospital. He is also starting to get angry at the staff for his wife's condition and tries to call the shots in regards to her medical care. I know he is trying to hang on to a little bit of control but he is starting to be more of a hinder than helpful. I'm afraid that we may have to enlist social services to remove him from the hospital for a little while so that he himself can get some help. That will probably not be a pretty sight as this man does getting physically angry at times. Grabbing him to restrain him is not something that I want to do.

Alzheimer's, dementia, mental status changes, etc, all affect more that just the patient. I probably didn't say anything new or even contributory to the thread, but I got to vent a little. Thanks

It helped me to visit my grandmother--and some family friends lately as everyone seems to be aging--if I tried to be more objective about the purpose of the visit. When she couldn't recognize me, the necessity for someone familiar to make sure that eyeglasses, teeth, favorite slippers and other personal items were present and available became a manageable task. She was very vulnerable, and I felt the need to look for bruising, or sudden weight loss, or dry cracked lips to satisfy myself that the care she was receiving was up to snuff. It helped me to know also that the staff knew that someone was paying attention.

When professional care and oversight become necessary, all I could do was look out for details that got overlooked in a setting with too many patients/residents and not enough LPNs and CENAs.

quote:

Originally posted by PinkBlossoms:

quote:

Originally posted by aggie_swife:
PB - Good to see you too.
Regarding my post, though, no I'm not talking about dealing with death. I'm talking about dealing with the living. My Uncle is very much alive. His health is pretty good. He is still there -- he still has feelings, though, his memories are not there nor is the personality that we knew and loved.

My Aunt has to deal with the loss of the companionship that they shared, along with the role reversal (he was always protective and took care of her) where she now takes care of him. Yet she must deal with basically a stranger and have the patience to get that stranger to share some trust in you amidst their constant confusion. My Aunt says that every once in awhile she gets a glimpse of the old husband and it makes her time with him so very worth every minute.

Wow - that's a real love story there. Talk about "for better or for worse." And your Aunt is stronger than she probably ever thought she was. God bless her!

And all of a sudden you reminded me of something sweet when you mentioned getting a glimpse of their former self. Thank you!

Rare as it was, every now and then my grandma would make a certain facial expression or just hold her head in a certain way and I could tell that she was still in there. No words spoken. She hadn't left completely. Wow, yes, those moments were special.

All the best to you and yours, AW. You've got a sweet heart.

Glad it brought back some good memories.

Ah Pink Blossoms.... no one ever said I have a sweet heart before. Gee thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by PinkBlossoms:
I always say my grandma died of Alzheimer's but, technically, she didn't.

However, the grandma I knew and loved died long before she physically left us. What a cruel disease, especially for the family members. I left in tears almost every time I visited her, which was regularly. But, I wouldn't have missed a visit for the world.

Strange, but a few of my siblings didn't have the need and urge to visit her like I did during those last years. (And each of them are beautiful and sweet people; it's a family thing.)

I tried to get them to visit her, but I always heard the same thing ... "She doesn't know us." "She won't remember our visit." I always replied that we know HER and we didn't know for sure what/who she knew or didn't know. And, thank God, I was given proof of this. I found out for sure she knew me and knew I was there. A gift.



BTW - my grandma's Alzheimer's came on full force in one instant. She was a widow who had her own apartment, drove, had a volunteer job with seniors, scored high on the bowling league, played a mean game of Bingo, loved life, was funny, etc, etc.

She was mugged, thrown to the ground and broke her hip. That same day, she left us mentally. I've read about how a serious injury to a senior will throw them into full blown Alzheimer's. Prior to the attack, she was already showing a few signs of forgetfulness and our family was concerned. But, in that moment when she was mugged, that ended her life as she and we knew it. Again, Alzheimer's ... horrible.

Anyway, I'm just throwing this subject out there. Trying to solve a mystery ... to visit or not to visit? And why? thnx

My elderly mother fell and broke her hip too. What was once a sharp, quick witted woman is now a frail, old woman lost in a world where only she and memories more than 40 years old inhabit. She recognizes that I'm the person who takes care of her,(sometimes mother or aunt but not her daughter), my youngest brother she thinks is her Daddy or brother; my two other living brothers won't visit and are content for the two of us youngest siblings to take care of everything. I used to visit every day after work for over a year then due to poor care at the nursing home, I moved her to a better run facility that is farther away. I now go once or twice a week; my youngest brother the same amount just different days. She is well cared for, always clean, neatly dressed, hair combed and braided or pinned up, and comfortable - the nurses and aids fuss and make over her so she gets a lot of attention.
Everyone has to decide what is best for themselves.
My Grandmother (my mother's mother)died just short of her 99th birthday, sharp as a tack, quick witted, sweet and loving... so who knows where the disease comes from.

It is the cruelest disease known to man, PB. You and your Grandma are in my prayers.

quote:

Originally posted by wrkn365:
PB
I was one of those that couldn't bring myself to visit my grandmother in the nursing home.
She was 89 when she passed. Her entire life, she was always the most exiting, interesting person you could imagine. Think, female Indiana Jones. She was still doing calisthenics every morning when she was 88 that were comparable to the PT that I did in the Army.
Nine months before she died she went in for simple surgery on her knee to fix a torn ligament. When she woke up from surgery she had no idea who or where she was. She never went home from the hospital. She went to a nursing home.
My mom and aunt and uncle (her kids) visited her all the time and I tried to visit, but every time I went I would leave feeling physically sick to my stomach. This was not the person I had grown up with. It was like she was already dead inside and I was just talking to her body.
The one time I saw her lucid in the nursing home was on her birthday. The whole family was there and everyone was talking to her and asking her how she was doing. Suddenly she stood up and said very loudly “Leave me alone!” Everybody just ignored her, laughed it off and acted like nothing happened. The next day she stopped eating, and within three days she was gone.
Call me weak or selfish, or whatever but I can relate to the people that would rather have good memories of their loved ones. Rather than have their last memories be of a stranger that looks just like the person they loved.

wrkn, thank you so much for shedding some light on this. I needed to read that. No, I'd never call you weak or selfish (your words.) Not at all. I can almost see a few of my siblings in your post ... all sweet and loving people themselves. I guess at the end of the day we all handle situations differently. I like that you added that you'd rather remember her as she was. yes, there's a certain sweetness in that. Thank you so much for your honesty.

Again, I really appreciate your words, heart, and sentiment. thank you.

British --- I think you're right -- I'll bet your mom had a big part in your uncle persuading you to visit him. Obviously, you are grateful to both of them. Those are days/visits you'd never get back ... but for your mom and uncle. I'm happy you had that time. Precious days.


DCooke and yoopr ... one thing I love about men is that they are always trying to fix things, solve the problem, etc. In reading both of your posts - I see that loud and clear. Lovely! It's heartwarming that your energy has been focused on your loved ones. Still trying to help and fix it all - regardless of the circumstances - just trying to make it better. I love it. thanks for telling me about it.


21USC -- I'll keep it in mind. I'm probably about ready to see it. thnx


Seth -- there's a special place in heaven for you. Gosh, I feel so bad for the husband, but also understand the concerns of the staff. What a tightrope you all must walk. Sometimes the suffering of the family is bigger than the patient. I'm sure you all handle it with kid gloves and do the best you can do. Your work is much more than a job - it's a calling. I'm thanking you from afar because one of these days/years we could all find ourselves at the hands and care of someone like you, if we're blessed that much. thnx


Aggie -- I can't believe you even said that. Your heart shines through ALL of the time. Or else I'm a psychic. lol


MOM - how wonderful to see you! I had no idea you're going through this. But, knowing you, everything you just told me seems so YOU. Your plate is full, but you've got the energy and stamina and heart to handle it all. From what you described, it sounds like your mom is well cared for now - and I'm glad you moved her to a better place. I had to once/twice flex my muscle to get better care for my grandma. Big time. We didn't have to move her, but we had to make it known how we wanted her treated and cared for. Surprise visits and all. Fortunately, they took me seriously and never had to see the other side of my ... gentle warnings.

You're like the Duracell battery, lady!! Proud of you! Keep going, keep going!