Yesterday, the state of Ohio tried unsuccessfully to execute convicted killer Romell Broom.



The executioners struggled for hours to find a vein in which to lethally inject him, but they failed to find one even with help from the condemned, so they had to stop trying to kill the guy. The state issued him a week reprieve while they figured out what to do next.

Apart from lighting him on fire and putting him out with a pick-ax only to re-ignite him again and again, what should the State of Ohio do? What can they do? And what if anything does this mean for the future of capital punishment, and lethal injection in particular, in America?

Broom's only been in prison for 25 years...You saying he can't stay there until some wizard figures it out?

It's only a one-week reprieve; basically, they just need to improve his blood volume and pressure (and thereby his veins) either through diet (which he could consciously combat through selective starvation, or chemically which, while a bit dicier, the condemned couldn't control.

The shame of it is when I was working the local ER as an EMT in training, we had this old GP (who sadly passed away within the last couple of weeks) who could find a vein on anybody in any situation; that's what 60-years of practice will do for ya!

Gotta love the irony in the necessity of getting a man healthy enough to kill him! Hawkeye Pierce would scream!

What if they can't ever find a suitable vein though? What if all his veins are likely to collapse and they simply cannot inject him with the chemicals? What does the state do at that point? The man is under a sentence of death and that death is prescribed by lethal injection in accordance with prohibitions against cruel & unusual punishment. His execution date came and went and he is still alive. It seems to me like a most interesting legal and moral dilemma being faced by the State of Ohio right now. Will they reduce his sentence to life in prison or will they find another way to execute him, if lethal injection will not work.

Two words for the future to keep the death penalty viable in the United States as a penalty, and to end situations like this moving forward: Nitrogen Asphyxiation.

If something doesn't work try something else should be on the death penalty guidelines. Sniper with a .308 rifle is a good choice.

quote:

Originally posted by downranger69:
If something doesn't work try something else should be on the death penalty guidelines. Sniper with a .308 rifle is a good choice.

When bloodlust fuels the debate--like it does when you're talking about capital offenses--foresight tends to go out the window. Another method if one doesn't work would seem like a no-brainer...but apparently no-brains were harmed (or used) in the writing of the statute.

quote:

What if they can't ever find a suitable vein though?

Medi-port. Central line.

It's not an unsolveable problem.

quote:

Originally posted by downranger69:
If something doesn't work try something else should be on the death penalty guidelines. Sniper with a .308 rifle is a good choice.

Perhaps, so long as the state then sent Broom's family a bill for the round.

Imo, this story is another prime reason we should just go back to hanging condemned criminals. It works every time and it's much cheaper than alternative execution methods.

quote:

Originally posted by shades_of_grey:

quote:

Originally posted by downranger69:
If something doesn't work try something else should be on the death penalty guidelines. Sniper with a .308 rifle is a good choice.

Perhaps, so long as the state then sent Broom's family a bill for the round.

Imo, this story is another prime reason we should just go back to hanging condemned criminals. It works every time and it's much cheaper than alternative execution methods.

I think New Hampshire still has it one the books as an alternate method - if lethal injection fails for any reason, they are supposed to take the person straight to the gallows.

quote:

Originally posted by Yooper_tj:

Medi-port. Central line.

It's not an unsolvable problem.

Then why didn't they just do that (whatever that means, I'm not even sure) on the scheduled date of his execution? The State of Ohio has had problems in the past with bad veins and they probably should have been ready for whatever might happen. I think it just goes to show that lethal injection is no longer reliable as a method of execution and that States (and the Federal Government) need to consider, more reliable, less expensive, less medically complicated, and more Constitutionally sound methods such as nitrogen asphyxiation.

What he did:

"He was convicted of raping and then murdering Tyrna – a ninth grade student at Shaw High School in East Cleveland. Tyrna was returning from a football game on Friday night on Sept 21, 1984 when she was abducted on a knife point. She was raped and murdered; her body was later found in Forest Hill Park. The semen in Tyrna’s body matched the Rommel Broom’s DNA."

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Originally posted by Combatmix:
What he did:

"He was convicted of raping and then murdering Tyrna – a ninth grade student at Shaw High School in East Cleveland. Tyrna was returning from a football game on Friday night on Sept 21, 1984 when she was abducted on a knife point. She was raped and murdered; her body was later found in Forest Hill Park. The semen in Tyrna’s body matched the Rommel Broom’s DNA."

Clearly he deserves to die, the question is can the State of Ohio carry out the sentence Constitutionally, and in accordance with the law as it currently exists? It would appear they cannot, and I'll be very interested to see what happens in this case.

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Originally posted by shades_of_grey:

Perhaps, so long as the state then sent Broom's family a bill for the round.

Why? They weren't responsible. If someone you're related to commits a crime are you going to accept responsibility for it.

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Originally posted by The_Bonesaw:

quote:

Originally posted by shades_of_grey:

Perhaps, so long as the state then sent Broom's family a bill for the round.

Why? They weren't responsible. If someone you're related to commits a crime are you going to accept responsibility for it.

Right, the family of the condemned are actually victims themselves. Their family member is being killed, sometimes this means a person's mother or father, what did they do to deserve having their parent (or son or daughter) killed? While I tend to agree with capital punishment, and support it for heinous DNA proven crimes, there are more victims than just those people killed by the condemned. The State victimizes his or her family in exactly the same way.

Charge the family for the bullet? What a joke.

This is not China.

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Originally posted by Yooper_tj:

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What if they can't ever find a suitable vein though?

Medi-port. Central line.

It's not an unsolveable problem.

Yep, there it is! When no veins are available, go for a major artery; Carotid, sub-Clavian, Brachial, or Femoral; or go for pump with a large-bore needle!

Things are simple if you let them be such!

quote:

Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:

quote:

Originally posted by Yooper_tj:

Medi-port. Central line.

It's not an unsolvable problem.

Then why didn't they just do that (whatever that means, I'm not even sure) on the scheduled date of his execution? The State of Ohio has had problems in the past with bad veins and they probably should have been ready for whatever might happen. I think it just goes to show that lethal injection is no longer reliable as a method of execution and that States (and the Federal Government) need to consider, more reliable, less expensive, less medically complicated, and more Constitutionally sound methods such as nitrogen asphyxiation.

Because most of the people they have to do the lines aren't really trained beyond the more common "entry-points" and those of us who are (EMT-Paramedics, MDs, RNs, PAs, etc) generally aren't inclined to engage in such actions as our inclination is to the inverse outcome!

....break....break...

Yooper: You a brother EMT/FF?

Venous Cutdown, only takes a minute and local anestetic makes it painless. WTF is the problem Doc?

C.R.

quote:

Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:
Yesterday, the state of Ohio tried unsuccessfully to execute convicted killer Romell Broom.



The executioners struggled for hours to find a vein in which to lethally inject him, but they failed to find one even with help from the condemned, so they had to stop trying to kill the guy. The state issued him a week reprieve while they figured out what to do next.

Apart from lighting him on fire and putting him out with a pick-ax only to re-ignite him again and again, what should the State of Ohio do? What can they do? And what if anything does this mean for the future of capital punishment, and lethal injection in particular, in America?

I am in the area, let me try. I am qite sure I can find the jugular after a few tries.

----- Indeed .. Venous Cutdown is done hundreds of times per day.. Ohio needs to find a real Dr. --

quote:

Originally posted by KJ1110:

quote:

Originally posted by Killswitch_Engage:

quote:

Originally posted by Yooper_tj:

Medi-port. Central line.

It's not an unsolvable problem.

Then why didn't they just do that (whatever that means, I'm not even sure) on the scheduled date of his execution? The State of Ohio has had problems in the past with bad veins and they probably should have been ready for whatever might happen. I think it just goes to show that lethal injection is no longer reliable as a method of execution and that States (and the Federal Government) need to consider, more reliable, less expensive, less medically complicated, and more Constitutionally sound methods such as nitrogen asphyxiation.

Because most of the people they have to do the lines aren't really trained beyond the more common "entry-points" and those of us who are (EMT-Paramedics, MDs, RNs, PAs, etc) generally aren't inclined to engage in such actions as our inclination is to the inverse outcome!

....break....break...

Yooper: You a brother EMT/FF?

Nope---just a contractor with a lot of friends with cancer/mediports, and some outside reading.

Just a fellow Yooper.

quote:

Originally posted by LuckySoFar:
----- Indeed .. Venous Cutdown is done hundreds of times per day.. Ohio needs to find a real Dr. --

Not sure the Hippocratic Oath and the licensing authorities in Ohio allow participation.

Seems there are ethical concerns.

quote:

Originally posted by Yooper_tj:

quote:

Originally posted by LuckySoFar:
----- Indeed .. Venous Cutdown is done hundreds of times per day.. Ohio needs to find a real Dr. --

Not sure the Hippocratic Oath and the licensing authorities in Ohio allow participation.

Seems there are ethical concerns.

---- Yikes... Does that mean, (erstwhile), all executions (in Ohio) were done by NON M.D.s? - as in guards, paramedics or Camp Counselors? --- Supreme Ct. lawsuit commin right up !

quote:

Originally posted by shades_of_grey:

quote:

Originally posted by downranger69:
If something doesn't work try something else should be on the death penalty guidelines. Sniper with a .308 rifle is a good choice.

Perhaps, so long as the state then sent Broom's family a bill for the round.

Imo, this story is another prime reason we should just go back to hanging condemned criminals. It works every time and it's much cheaper than alternative execution methods.

I suspect that if the hangman's noose were still a method in use, then the number of offenders on death row wouldn't be near what it is.

Granted, for this scumbag, I wouldn't mind bringing back the guillotine.

quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixDark:

quote:

Originally posted by shades_of_grey:

quote:

Originally posted by downranger69:
If something doesn't work try something else should be on the death penalty guidelines. Sniper with a .308 rifle is a good choice.

Perhaps, so long as the state then sent Broom's family a bill for the round.

Imo, this story is another prime reason we should just go back to hanging condemned criminals. It works every time and it's much cheaper than alternative execution methods.

I suspect that if the hangman's noose were still a method in use, then the number of offenders on death row wouldn't be near what it is.

Granted, for this scumbag, I wouldn't mind bringing back the guillotine.

With the prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment I doubt that there is any method of execution that will truly scare real criminals.

The whole situation is really quite unprecedented, IMO. When was the last time the State could not (would not) execute a killer on the scheduled date of his or her execution? I think many years ago a guy survived electrocution in the chair only to be electrocuted at a later date but that was a while ago and all they had to do was crank up the juice to be sure to kill him.

This case here presents more complicated difficulties and blurs the line even further between medicine and killing. The State of Ohio has stated they will "try" again next week...

Stay tuned.

The ultimate penalty also takes into account the defendant's prior criminal record. I'm sure Mr. Broom was not a novice to the legal system before he murdered the young lady.

The death penalty is an order from the court. It is not a stipulation pending other conditions. If a vein cannot be found, then continue this ugly work until one is. Veins are also difficult to find among long-term drug abusers. This scenario is not the first time this has happened. The state should have protocols for when this occurs.

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Originally posted by cosmicfish:

quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixDark:

quote:

Originally posted by shades_of_grey:

quote:

Originally posted by downranger69:
If something doesn't work try something else should be on the death penalty guidelines. Sniper with a .308 rifle is a good choice.

Perhaps, so long as the state then sent Broom's family a bill for the round.

Imo, this story is another prime reason we should just go back to hanging condemned criminals. It works every time and it's much cheaper than alternative execution methods.

I suspect that if the hangman's noose were still a method in use, then the number of offenders on death row wouldn't be near what it is.

Granted, for this scumbag, I wouldn't mind bringing back the guillotine.

With the prohibition on cruel and unusual punishment I doubt that there is any method of execution that will truly scare real criminals.

One thing I've never understood is what was so cruel or unusual about hanging. If done correctly death is pretty much instant (you have to take into account drop time) so it wasn't cruel, and since it was used for so long beforehand it wasn't particularly unusual either.

I believe that NH and Washington State still have hanging on the books, with lethal injection as an alternative method. Agree when done right it's neither cruel nor unusual, but States have moved away from methods such as this in favor of more "clinical" methods where no bones need be broken, no real significant amounts of blood must flow, and the risk of an inmate's head popping off from a bad drop is reduced to zero.