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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Point-Counterpoint Americans dumping their SUVs|
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I like to fight fire... with gasoline...  |
That symbol of American gluttony, the SUV has become passé. How many of you have given up your gas guzzling SUVs for something more fuel efficient?
Gas guzzler glut Fuel prices have SUV owners anxious to unload big vehicles By NATHAN HALVERSON and Clark Mason THE PRESS DEMOCRAT March 16, 2008 High gas prices are leaving SUV drivers with more than just thinner wallets. Many are also stuck with their gas guzzlers, unable to trade in their Hummer or Chevrolet Suburban for something more fuel efficient. With the price of gas spiraling above $3.60 a gallon, demand for big SUVs is evaporating, and prices are plunging. "I'm getting four to five people a week with big SUVs and pickups screaming at me, 'Help me get rid of this,' " said Dave Bower, owner of B&L Auto Sales, a used car dealer on Santa Rosa Avenue. "But I have to turn a lot of them away. I've already got enough." Large vehicles sit on Bower's lot an average of four to six months before selling -- about four times longer than three years ago. Now, he only stocks one full-size SUV such as a GMC Yukon at a time. "In 25 years, this is the worst I've seen gas prices affect car sales," Bower said. "It is extremely dismal." Sales of new SUVs in the United States are down one-third from their peak in 2002, according to Autodata Corp., which tracks vehicle sales. While demand dwindles, supply is increasing as more people unload their inefficient rides for something with better gas mileage. Prices have plummeted anywhere from 30 percent to 50 percent for used trucks and SUVs, according to Sonoma County car dealers. "They are just not getting the same prices they were a few years ago," said Cherie Adamson, whose family has run the weekend Carmart for 24 years at the Sonoma County Fairgrounds in Santa Rosa. "Everybody is looking for smaller four-cylinder vehicles now." Rudolfo Luebano, who was shopping at the Carmart on Saturday, took a look at a vintage 1973 orange, 4x4 Chevy Blazer whose owner was asking $3,500. "A few years ago, there's no way you could find a car like that for a price like that," said Luebano, who was looking for a commuter vehicle to take him from Santa Rosa to his construction job in Petaluma. "I have to think it over. If it gets only 9 miles per gallon for daily drives, I don't think so," he said. Samier Eweis of Santa Rosa knows all too well how gas prices coupled with the slow economy are affecting SUV sales. He's been trying to unload his 2003 Yukon Denali for the past six to seven months and has lowered his asking price from $35,000 to $19,900. "The gas has a lot do with it," he said Saturday. That's why he's selling the big, shiny black vehicle which was great for family trips to Lake Tahoe, but too much for his budget. He's going back to his old Acura sports coupe, which gets better mileage. The Denali is loaded with extras, including chrome wheel rims, leather captain's seats and an overhead flip-down DVD screen and player. With 58,000 miles on the odometer, it had less mileage than most of the other SUVS with it at the Carmart. But Eweis, an auto glass company owner, still hadn't gotten any calls by mid-afternoon. Even though he still owes $21,000 on the vehicle -- more than his asking price -- he said it costs him too much to drive between the insurance, car payment and gas. "I will pay off the bank so I can get rid of it," he said. "It's been tough." The rapid decline in value has left many people owing more on their SUVs than the vehicles are worth. "I'm not even going to try and sell my 2001 Chevrolet Blazer. Why bother? I would lose $4,000," said Michael Poirier of Santa Rosa, who visited the Carmart last week. Poirier owes $14,000 on the truck and estimates it is worth $10,000. If he sells it, he'll have to pull $4,000 out of his pocket to pay off the loan or continue making loan payments for a vehicle he no longer owns. "I would lose too much money selling it," he said. About three out of four people who come into B&L Auto Sales with a used car to trade in are "upside-down" on their car loans -- meaning they owe more than the vehicle is worth. "These are everyday, working-class people," Bowen said. Nationally, one in four people who traded in a used car to buy a new one in 2007 was upside-down on their loan, according to Edmunds.com, which tracks industry sales. These people owed an average of $4,059 -- the greatest disparity between vehicle value and loan value on record. And the trend is only expected to get worse in 2008, according to Edmunds.com. "We believe it will be one of the slowest years for auto sales in nearly a decade," said Jesse Toprak, an Edmunds.com analyst, in an annual report. While sales of large vehicles are tumbling, fuel-efficient vehicles are becoming hot commodities. Toyota increased sales of its iconic Prius hybrid by 71 percent in 2007. And construction workers long enamored with big V-8 engines are turning to more economical four- and six-cylinder pickups. "I love my Ford Super Duty. But it's killing me. It's a diesel-guzzling machine," said Greg Clouse, owner of Clouse Construction. Last week, Clouse went in search of a smaller Toyota Tacoma pickup truck in order to get better gas mileage. Clouse spends $60 a day on diesel fuel for his Ford while driving from job site to job site during the work week. That is equivalent to about $15,000 a year. He figures he can cut that cost in half by driving a small truck. "That's the new reality," he said. Link |
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They may be thinking but they definitely are not doing.
On my 75 mile round trip freeway commute everyday I am in danger of getting run over even in the right lane cause I have figured out that speed relates to the price of a fillup. Suzie and Bill Bob are still fighting hard to lead the race and drive at least 80mph in their American V8 iron. |
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Consumer Reports Sizes Up Hybrid Costs
Savings at Pump Don't Offset Higher Purchase Price SOURCE; Consumer Reports March 3, 2006 For consumers who believe that gas/electric hybrid vehicles will save them money, the picture hasn't been so clear. Hybrid vehicles are more fuel efficient and produce lower emissions than conventional gasoline-only vehicles. Most current models of hybrids also score well in Consumer Reports' testing and are highly rated in CR's annual reliability and owner satisfaction surveys. But do hybrid vehicles really hold the potential to save the consumer money over the long haul? To find the answer, Consumer Reports looked at all of the major ownership costs and financial benefits of six different hybrid vehicles -- a mix of sedans and sport-utility vehicles (SUVs). In Consumer Reports' analysis, none of the six hybrids tested recovered its price premium in the first five years and 75,000 miles of ownership. In fact, the extra ownership costs over five years for those vehicles ranged from $3,700 to $13,300. Even when the analysis was extended to a period of 10 years and 150,000 miles, it was not possible to recover the price premium for a hybrid vehicle. Consumer Reports also found that the benefits and costs of hybrids vary significantly, depending on the model. Because of the wide range of hybrid vehicles available, it's especially important for consumers to look carefully at all aspects of the vehicle before buying. The 2006 model year vehicles examined are the: Ford Escape Hybrid AWD, Honda Accord Hybrid, Honda Civic Hybrid, Lexus RX400h AWD, Toyota Highlander Hybrid Limited AWD and the Toyota Prius. The full report, titled "The dollars & sense of hybrids," is published in Consumer Reports' Annual April Auto Issue, which goes on sale beginning Tuesday, March 7. The rising price of gasoline and concern over U.S. dependence on oil have generated a lot of interest in hybrids, and with good reason. They typically deliver the best fuel economy in their classes. The most fuel-efficient models can save the consumer about $660 in gasoline costs. Hybrids also emit less pollution. Each gallon of gasoline not burned prevents the emission of 19 pounds of carbon dioxide, which many believe contributes to global warming. In some states, hybrid owners can even use special carpool lanes regardless of the number of occupants in the vehicle. These benefits add up to an inviting package for many car buyers who are willing to pay a premium for a hybrid. But for those who are considering buying a hybrid for purely financial reasons, the figures just don't add up. Estimating the Total Ownership Costs To estimate the various overall ownership costs of hybrids, Consumer Reports picked six current models that it had previously tested and totaled their major costs and savings over the first five years, the longest period for which reliable data on all the cost components are available. Five years is also a typical period of car ownership. CR did the same thing for each model's closest conventional, gasoline-powered equivalent and then compared the two. (For its investigation, Consumer Reports assumed that all the vehicles were purchased in California, the leading market for hybrid sales.) Consumer Reports factored the following into its calculations: the purchase price premiums for hybrids, the difference in sales tax, savings from hybrid federal tax credits, fuel savings from hybrids at the pump, the extra cost or savings in insurance premiums for hybrids, the extra maintenance cost or savings from hybrids, the extra depreciation cost, and extra financing cost. After factoring in federal tax credits and fuel savings that are based on gas prices rising to $3 and then to $4 a gallon, CR's calculations show that the most cost-effective hybrids, the Honda Civic Hybrid and Toyota Prius, still cost $3,700 and $5,250 more than their all-gas peers (the Civic EX sedan and Corolla LE sedan, respectively) after five years. Models with the highest cost difference -- the Honda Accord Hybrid, Lexus RX400h, and Toyota Highlander Hybrid Limited -- ranged from $10,250 to $13,300 more. |
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Businessweek disagrees with that arguement.
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/jan2007/bw200...top+news+index_autos |
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Soon, demo derbys will feature sport utes. Big tough vehicles that tip over easily will fill the gap as the pool of 70's and 80's boats and station wagons dwindles.
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"I'm still a tough old bird!" |
Funny....because, as they trade in the SUV's, they get little for them.....they are then sold cheap in the used car lot to someone else that drives them expensively.
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CNN Money also disagrees with Consumers.
http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/autos/0711/gallery...._that_pay/index.html |
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Highly Experienced Member |
And, as we dump these huge, fuel hungry vehicles, does the much-hated Jimmy Carter get the last laugh? He tried to mandate the building of smaller, more fuel-efficient vehicles in the Seventies and got laughed out of Washington by the Reaganites.
Gore tried it too when he championed the "supercar", five-passenger vehicles that would get up to 80mpg. There was once a deadline of 2004 for automakers to meet that standard - but the present administration scuttled it. It's amazing how partisan political agendas always get in the way of good policy. And, once again, the chickens have come home to roost. People need to start paying more attention to issues of substance and not this other nonsense. |
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I guess it depends on who you believe. I personally believe Consumer Reports over business week. It is for the consumers after all.
Hybrid Mileage Comes Up Short http://www.wired.com/cars/energy/news/2004/05/63413 As Hybrid Cars Multiply, So Do Carpooling Gripes http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A54561-2005Jan6.html A.M. Greenlist: Bad news for cars -- even hybrids http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/emeraldcity/2008/04/am-greenlist-ba.html Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage By Chris Demorro Staff Writer SOURCE: the Recorder The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer. Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius. The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right? You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs. However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse. Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles. The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare. “The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper. All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce? Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet. When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis. Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid. The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it. So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot. One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses. |
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If a tree falls in a forest and lands on a politician, even if you can't hear the tree or the screams, I'll bet you'd at least hear the applause. Paul Tindale  |
Actually, they are becoming one of our better exports. |
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I agree. SUV's in and of themselves are no more harmful than any other gas powered car. The 4-wheel drive, when engaged is what they say causes problems. But all in all, how often do you use your fourwheel drive. You don't in the city so I don't see any real problem. |
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Funny that you posted this since I ran into this yesterday. Does anyone honestly believe that a Hummer does less environmental damage than a Prius? This article is so silly, that I am sure he can argue a Freightliner being more eco-friendly. I seemed to lose the rebuttal site that I originally found, but here goes:
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