First of all I am in transit from the big easy so I am off and on.

Second, if I had my way the surplus money from SS would go to a TSP type of indexed account. Third, I don't trust anyone in Washington and crack up when I see people talking from both sides of the mouth about how they don't trust, yet rely on them to prove a point.

quote:

Originally posted by dmuhler:
First of all I am in transit from the big easy so I am off and on.

Second, if I had my way the surplus money from SS would go to a TSP type of indexed account. Third, I don't trust anyone in Washington and crack up when I see people talking from both sides of the mouth about how they don't trust, yet rely on them to prove a point.

Yea well your not alone. I don't trust any of them either.

I am not familiar with the TSP acronym you use. I am going to assume its some sort of private sector investment?

Anyway, I was reading this the other day. You might be interested. I know the big debate seems to revolve around individual private accounts and or some sort of government single buyer private sector investment strategy. This article discusses the later..

http://www.cato.org/pubs/ssps/ssp6.html

My issue with social security, and many other programs for that matter, is that it is a political tool. One party or another screws it up in some attempt to achieve some political end and those who might actually need it and or the money that funds it just get the shaft as the power players get theirs.

TSP is the thrift savings account which is a 401K type account that invests only in indexed funds. the biggest problem with SSA trust fund is that it is not treated like an investment but as a revenue stream. It should be left alone, to be returned to the capital pool.

quote:

Originally posted by dmuhler:
TSP is the thrift savings account which is a 401K type account that invests only in indexed funds.

Well the biggest issue with this kind of solution (and I am assuming you mean in a single buyer kind of system where the government is the buyer), is that it socializes a good portion of our economy. Think about it. As a single buyer the government who could invest our money, up to 6 trillion, in various stocks and bonds and such in the private sector? That could ultimately mean the goverment is the predominate stock holder in a great number of companies. What happens when they begin to use that new influence to adjust the economy? It would enable them to manipulate private industry much like the Federal Reserve can manipulate the financial industry but maybe even more so. Do we really want to give politicians that much power? Or worse some semi private system like the Federal Reserve?

Many talk about government and corporations in cahoots being a bad thing. Well this would only make it worse. They would be merged at the hip by law..

quote:

Originally posted by dmuhler:
the biggest problem with SSA trust fund is that it is not treated like an investment but as a revenue stream. It should be left alone, to be returned to the capital pool.

Well that and it doesn't have a return comparable to the private sector. Its based entirely on the governments ability to tax, barrow, and print money. None of which is a good thing for the American people and the economy.

Conspiracists say the motivation behind the administration pushing for investing the SS trust fund is because that's the last, large pile of cash over which David Rockefeller has no control. With it in the market, he could (or others).

You may take that for what it's worth.

quote:

Originally posted by stillkit:
Conspiracists say the motivation behind the administration pushing for investing the SS trust fund is because that's the last, large pile of cash over which David Rockefeller has no control. With it in the market, he could (or others).

You may take that for what it's worth.

Well in this particular case I will defend Bush ..

Bush is not proposing that the government invest it on our behalf. It is the Dems pushing for that. And if they succeed they would nearly have complete control over the market space it was invested in. I shudder to even think of the sort of bubble that could create and or how it might price you and I and the rest of the middle class completely out of the market.

If they had that ability they could litterally control the entire financial sector and artifically raise the value of a stock or destroy it. They would have absolute control of nearly every major corporation in the country.

And as you mentioned its only a matter of time until some politico takes advantage of it to what ever ends their particular ideology dictates.

That would be true socialism at its finest.

For those worried about wire tapping what would happen if the government was the largest shareholder of every major telecom company? What about the major oil companies? Airlines? Auto makers? Banks? It gives me the shivers..

It would definately be time to move..

I highly recommend that everyone read this link.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/ssps/ssp6.html
It outlines the major issues with all the variations of the single payer system.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: floersh,

Just want to insert here that I have been trying for a few days to respond to replies to my posts but was having posting difficulties. Thanks guys for your input.Gives me some food for thought. This is a very interesting thread.