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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Point-Counterpoint Yeah, let’s get rid of Socialism!|
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New Member |
First step - the biggest Socialist programs we have now are Medicare and Social Security. Let’s start by giving all recipients back the money they paid (in taxes) into the system, and let the old folks make it on their own. Hope they have a good private pension. If not, it’s THEIR own fault for not saving. I hear the Salvation Army has some good soup kitchens.
Privatize the military - it’s the 3rd biggest Socialist program after the entitlement programs. I’m sure Blackwater, Martin-Marietta, and Halliburton can handle the job of protecting US interests overseas AND make a good profit at the same time. Reduce (greatly) that socialist Veteran’s Affairs office, and make that semi-socialist Tricare program pay for itself. The only veterans who should be receiving taxpayer money from VA are the ones who were drafted into the military. They were FORCED to go in. Everyone else was a VOLUNTEER. If some veteran got his leg blown off in Iraq - well HE was the one who volunteered to join the Army, right? Nobody twisted his arm. It was VOLUNTARY. Saddam Hussein never bothered ME personally, and if Bin Laden ever comes to my door, I’ll have my my 50 pistols, 2000 rifles, and 50-submachine guns ready for him. Why should I pay my hard-earned tax money because some Vice President got us into a war I never wanted? Let CHENEY pay all those soldier doctor bills. Privatize all police departments and fire departments. Why should I pay tax money because somebody broke into YOUR house??? And why did YOU leave that grilled cheese sandwich on the burner all night? So your house burned down. Why should I pay for YOUR absentmindedness? Your kid got burned? Well YOU’RE a bad parent. Hope YOU got medical insurance, because I’M NOT PAYING for your idiocy. Get rid of the libraries - why should I pay for books that I will never read? For that matter, borrowing books is ANTI-CAPITALIST. Somebody is NOT making a profit when you borrow rather than buy a book. Get rid of public schools. Parents should individually pay for their kids education in private schools. YOU chose to be a parent - why should I pay tax money for YOUR kid’s education? Education is overrated anyway. Privatize trash collection and the postal service - let people pay a private contractor for each of these services. And let everyone pay individual contractors for road and highway maintenance and snow removal. I got my big 4-wheel-drive SUV. It's not my problem that YOUR little car can’t handle potholes. Get rid of those pesky Socialist environmental agencies- especially the EPA. What a waste of taxpayer’s money. Who cares if the air and water becomes polluted, and your backyard mountains are strip-mined. You can buy bottled water and air purifiers. And stay indoors. Your kids don’t need to go outdoors, they have TV and Nintendo. What is the point of having National Parks anyway? Such great raw materials exist there for making money. Redwoods? Excellent timber for making hardwood floors (at a good profit). Whales? Cat and dog food. Yosemite National Park? Excellent location for a Health Spa, more strip malls and new McMansion subdivisions. The most improtant thing is that the Economy GROWS - there must be more housing starts, more construction, more people with money to buy more real estate. Free Market is Above Everything - and the the God-inspired "Invisible Hand of the Marketplace" rules us all. The IRS is pure EVIL. They know EVERYTHING about you. More than the NSA does. The State Department - why are the squishy bleeding-heart liberals ruthlessly giving my hard earned tax dollars to starving children in Ethiopia? It's not MY fault they got themselves in that predicament. It's all their parent's fault. THEY need to get a job. Get rid of those "socialist" babysitters like the FDA, and the USDA. It’s your your own damn fault if the food you ate was poisonous - YOU should know where it came from. Why did YOU buy that food from China? Why did YOU poison your kids with lead paint? Don’t you know that YOU shouldn’t eat food with salmonella or E. Coli in it? YOU are an idiot and why should I pay YOUR medical expenses. YOU got diabetes? TOO BAD. Why is that my problem? Your child has leukemia? Maybe you should pray harder. Go to church more. Of course you should trust the Big Drug Companies! They have YOUR best interests at heart. Why would they want to kill good consumers like YOU? Except the fetuses. We can spend taxpayer’s money on healthcare for fetuses. Cut way back on the FBI (after all, I can protect myself with my 50 pistols, 2000 rifles, and 50-submachine guns), but increase some money to the INS, DHS and DEA. Illegal aliens are taking thousands of high-paying farm labor jobs and maid work jobs away from millions of hard-working Americans. Marijuana smokers are a major threat to our society. So are (pick one) Mexicans, French, Chinese, Moslems, Gays, Atheists who are fiendishly waiting their chance... for us to be overtaken by those liberals who support Socialist healthcare... Yours Satirically, Granny |
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*Sigh*
If you want to take every penny we give in foreign aid and use it for UHC..I'm with you. Other than that this is a piece of trash. |
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Quiet Professional |
Granny must have fell off the rocker.
C.R. |
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Experienced Member |
Yea, like that's going to make any difference. USAID's budget is funded through the 150 Account, which includes all International Affairs programs and operations for civilian agencies. In FY 2009, the Bush Administration's request for the International Affairs Budget for the Department of State, the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), and other foreign affairs agencies totals approximately $39.5 billion, including $26.1 billion for Foreign Operations and Related Agencies, $11.2 billion for Department of State, and $2.2 billion for Other International Affairs.  |
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New Member |
Sorry if my sarcastic topic is a bit .... over-exaggerated. Do you think I meant all this this seriously? I'm just tired of dealing with people who say "Obama is turning the country to Scary Socialism". Especially those (like my dad and an aunt) who actually receive a check from the government (Social Security and Medicare). It's OK for THEM to receive money but others don't deserve it. There are libertarians, neo-liberals and some conservatives who want to privatize EVERYTHING and shrink government down to where it would "fit in a bathtub". That is what they've said. What I wrote above is exactly what they want to happen. This message has been edited. Last edited by: ColdWarGranny, |
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A little more than half my wife's check goes straight to government. That does not even count what we pay in dozens of other taxes.. Smaller government would be a nice thing. |
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^ Some good ideas here, Granny.  |
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Highly Experienced Member |
1/2 = 50%...No income bracket has that high of a tax rate...not even close...even with Social Security and Medicare. Get another accountant. |
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Experienced Member ------------------  Proud member ------------------  |
Those who see and call healthcare socialism are puppets of the game. That game is turning down medical care on a daily basis thousands of times a day nationwide for surgical, medical and prescription care for citizens of the US who have paid for that care. We need to open our eyes and minds and see that those like threerings who calls healthcare for US socialism when it is really the Golden Rule personified... Jesus was not a socialist but he preched about the Golden Rule. Maybe you can remember the story? If your not religious you might remember family members denied treatment under healthcare insureance? Thousands are limited and denied daily buy those people who are not even doctors or nurses treating your family members. Do not let them delude you with their bs...
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Experienced Member |
well granny you missed a pig point and serious difference.
for the police, the military, the library and such, you are paying for services rendered. For UHC, social security and medicare, you are paying people for getting old and sick? I do not think we should have social security or most welfare programs Forget the dog, Beware of Owner |
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Member |
I am retired military and that automatically makes me a ward of the socialistic state. I receive retirement pay (thank you taxpayers), VA benefits (thank you taxpayers), Social Security (thank you taxpayers) and Medicare(thank you taxpayers). I did work in the private sector and receive a honest retirement from my employer. Of course I paid a few dollars in taxes myself.
Even though your post was tongue-in-cheek there is a lot of truth in what you say. Why do we need libraries when no one under 50 can read? I say do away with public education. Public schools exist as instruments of propaganda and indoctrination for the centralized federal government. It's primary goal is to take kids out of the home, warehouse them during the day, de-motivate them, indoctrinate them and "teach" to the lowest common denominator. |
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Experienced Member |
The collectivists complain about the ineffectuality of their big guvmint programs. So they offer up more of the same bloated ineffectuality by which to remedy the mess their collectivist ideas have already created. Enough of the stupidity, the laziness, the abject lack of creativity of the socialists and their dumb enablers. All they can do is think of how to spend money they do not have and plunge the nation's well-being into the cesspool of big guvmint. If they had any brains and self-discipline, they would eliminate fraud, waste, and abuse in the wealth-transfer schemes they already foist upon us. There is likely 60-100 billion/year there, alone. Use those funds for new initiatives. But that takes work. . . hard work. Dey don be a wantin' nun o' dat. Much easier to verbally flatulate and insist on taking more and more of the wealth they have already proven themselves abundantly (not totally) incompetent to properly manage. |
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Experienced Member |
The big difference among lots of the collectivist crap we hear from the lemmings and what you mention is that you EARNED your military retirement. No one I know has any gripe with people benefitting from that which they EARN. It makes all the difference in the world, EARNING vs. some guvmint weenie demanding you give up what you earn, to hand over to people who could have done far more to EARN what they now want, so that their votes are bought. EARNING is honesty, morality, decency--and it is that which the collectivist freaks happily seek to destroy with their nihilistic undertones. |
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Highly Experienced Member |
Sorry, but I see healthcare for all Americans as "services rendered" as well. Why is someone more deserving of police protection than protection against disease and illness? Something like 22,000 Americans die prematurely every year due to a lack of healthcare which is considerably more than the number that die each year in "terror" attacks, but we spend how much a year on our "war on terror"? The military, policemen and firemen protect our entire populace, not just the ones that can "pay" for it. I simply do not see healthcare as any different. It is protecting our populace...taking care of AMERICANS. |
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Member |
"I am retired military and that automatically makes me a ward of the socialistic state. I receive retirement pay (thank you taxpayers), VA benefits (thank you taxpayers), Social Security (thank you taxpayers) and Medicare(thank you taxpayers). I did work in the private sector and receive a honest retirement from my employer. Of course I paid a few dollars in taxes myself."
My Opine on all this: 1. The above quote is almost my life story. 2. I continue to pay taxes, every day and in every way possible. 3. I RandD the Net, as a Conservative, concerned with the loss or threatened loss of the 4 basic freedoms. What I have observed so far, is that there is undeniably a concerted effort to deny these Freedoms to the USA Citizenry via multiple Legisilative efforts. 4. The current brougah over Healthcare, Cap and Trade is simply the basic citizen finally coming out of the sand his head has been in for some 55 years. 5. Socialism, as we are beginning to graspthe concept, does indeed threaten our liberties. What we have ignored is the web that the SOCIALISTS have woven already. Medicare, Medicad, Academia, Military/industrial Lobbyists, all and more have Socialistic threads. We have opted for support, rather than individualistic entreprenuership. IE: making our own living and paying our own way. 6. The Pandoras box of Socialism was opened full in 1914, circa WW1, Woodrow Wilson, Teddy Roosevelt, Lenin, Trotsky, Engels,& Marx, read their autobios. You will be amazed at the similarities to todays' Legislature Representatives. 7. History repeats, We are observing the fruits of the early 20th century, the middle 50s and finally the period of 1960-1980. Read Jack Abrahams' texts, Read J. Edgar Hoovers "Masters of Deceit", all many times reccommended on this forum. They delineate exactly where we have been and sadly, by extrapolation, where we are going. Bt We, the average USA Citizen knows this stuff in his gut. Why in the world do you think teenage kids walked out of Chosin, into the swamps of Nam, deployed endless days at sea trailing USSR trawlers. Not for medals, pay or Seeing the World, simply to defend what their Dads' suffered for on Anzio, Utah, Gold, and Tarawa beaches. The Four Freedoms, we have literally forgotten them, but fortunately there are still some old f.... able to once again take up the cudgel of defense. Look at the You Tubes. Do you see the age of these folks, give me a break. end Semper Fi |
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Member |
My original post was a bit facetious. I admit to having "earned" the benefits I now receive from various government agencies. It does seem that many Americans are finally waking up to what has been transpiring in this country for so many years - collectivization by central oligarchy. I would however disagree that this all began in the US circa WWI. I think it really began in earnest during Lincoln's administration, particularly with his autocratic rule and aggression against the legitimate Confederate States of America. Lincoln usurped the Constitution, was a tyrant and despot with whom Karl Marx would have been proud. We as a nation are about to expand on his deification. If only Americans knew the truth. Booth should have acted 4 years earlier. |
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New Member |
When you say "collectivization by central oligarchy" I would agree with you, however I think it's a different kind of "oligarchy" we need to be concerned with - not the "socialist" type. Socialism is where the government has the power and control; I think the greater danger facing us is in "corporate capitalism" (a version of Fascism) - where large multi-national companies and big corporations have more power than individuals. Go to the website "opensecrets.org" and check out the money being donated to individual members of Congress. Where is our tax money going? In the past few years we've had the: $700 Billion Bank Bailout $173 Billion AIG Bailout $289 Billion BigAgri Bailout (also known as the Farm Bill) $80 Billion BigPharma Bailout (also known as Medicare Part D) $680 Billion (so far) Military-Industrial-Complex Bailout (also known as the Iraq War) This is YOUR tax money and most of it is NOT going to bigger government. It's going to Corporations. Most of the money for the military goes to Big Pentagon Contractors (remember Eisenhower's warning about the Military-Industrial-Complex?). Most of the money for the Farm Bill goes to Monsanto, ConAgra etc. Most of the money for Medicare Part D goes into the pockets of the big Pharmaceutical companies. These corporations get bigger and bigger and kill off many of the smaller Mom & Pop businesses who can't compete. Just go to any small town after a Walmart has moved in. |
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I may be a bit naive, but I'm under the impression that I've earned, through years of military service, hard work, and incremental payments, all the benefits I hope to receive as I approach my 60th birthday. I've paid into all those programs for 40+ years, and to suggest they now be done away with now would be stealing from me and everyone else who has WORKED HARD AND PAID IN. I'd fight that to the death. As for doing away with Libraries - foolishness. Public libraries were started by Ben Franklin and other such men. They are the reservoirs of this great republic's knowledge, and many people use them for self-betterment. Those that don't are the worse for it - - The same is true of Public Education. There is a reason this country is great, and that is because it puts huge effort into educating everybody it can. In many totalitarian countries throughout history, only the Aristocracy received any real education, to keep them in power. America tries to get as much education to all levels of society as possible, and the Founders were wise enough to realize how critical this is to the survival of this Republic. Do away with the Military or the Local Police and Fire Departments if you dare. You can always protect yourself with your own pitchfork or put out your own house fire with your own bucket from your own well - - But do away with a broad Public Education program, and you will KILL this Republic, because the People and the children of the People will fall back into a Dark Age of general ignorance which will doom them again to the serfdom their forefathers fled Europe and other places to escape - and the Rich Upper Class will have total power over them again. Education is so critical that it cannot be left to a random hodge-podge patchwork non-system, where wealthy metropolises have grand multi-level institutions for those who can pay, while poor rural areas have no schools at all. It is no coincidence that America became a great country in the 19th and 20th century, which all modern industrial countries began to copy, including general education of all children everywhere at public expense. What better resource to pour our tax dollars into than our children - F-22 Stealth Fighters at $350,000,000.00 a copy!?!?! That would build 35 new high schools!! If your public education in your area doesn't seem to be doing the job, then get involved instead of griping about it. Hone the system back down to its real mission of education, rather than letting your schools become forums for clown and freak shows and "socialization." But don't assume that some kind of "home schooling utopia" exists out there somewhere. What that would really create is a country awash in idol gangs of young people running around with nothing else to do during the day except ransacking your property while you are away at work - - Wandering and Wondering |
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Member |
I just like the thread title.
But I would like to point out one item
BIG BUSINESS LOVES BIG GOVERNMENT AKA SOCIALISM Last I checked...I didn’t authorize any of these bailouts. That all fell to a democratically controlled congress, moderate repubics controlled congress , and now Mr. president himself. |
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Half of your wife's check goes to taxes? I call bullshirt on that. |
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We don't think you should have them, either. Do you collect a military retirement check? Same thing applies there. Or were your years of service actually a mercenary endeavor? ...See how that works? It tickles me how many people here who live on the gov't dime gripe about so-called "socialism." |
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You would rather the economy had collapsed? |
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Member |
PROOVE IT WOULD HAVE |
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yep ban the Boy Scouts & Girl Scouts too - they must be socialist...
ban all public schools too - must be socialist... ban diner time it's probably a socialist activity... If folks want socialism - Chavez will take the help - Europe - Russia (sort-a) - Cuba - - there are plenty of places folks can go and live their happy lives - they can socialize with all the socialites. Capitalism is the American way of life - Free Enterprise - Freedom of Speech even when it disagrees with Obama and Nancy... The Progressive Democrats attempting their socialist over-throw of our country should be put an a McCarthy List - hunted down and stuff on Nancy's plane with her, Reid, Schumer, Murtha, Durbin, and the rest of the anti-American scum and given a ONE WAY flight to anywhere but here... Just a thought.... I guess the latest projected deficit numbers are only slightly higher than they thought - 2019 is proposed to be banging a hefty 17-TRILLION BUCKS... - but what the heck - what's a few TRILLION - oh yeah it was Bush's fault... Someone should help Obama out a little - at least explain to him that he can't use a solar powered calculater in the dark and save energy... just buy some batteries... oh and unemployment should be banging around 12-15 percent by Christmas - merry xmas and happy depression... Look on the bright side of it - when Israel busts Iran - which will be very shortly now - Obama will be scrubbing skid marks out of his underwear for a month... They wanted to send a rookie - they surely GOT ONE... keep focusing on that health-care - that'll help matters... Someone should send him a blunt so he took in the back room without attracting too much attention... Ya know - Obama should serious consider getting a refund on that Harvard Education - cuz I don't think it's helping him much... Of course he can always call SS-ACORN gangs to help get his message out... |
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Member |
I just can't let go of this topic.
The sheer magnitude that we have in this society will take years to beat back. I question the motives of those who trash the capitalist workings that actually employ people, yet in America, without capitalism there could not be socialism. |
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Experienced Member |
It is like any other job, they offered specific benefits for a service provided. I worked for the payment provided. You may consider this as mercenary, but I am pretty sure that mercenary is not socialist. You are contradicting yourself on this one, either I am being compensated for services provided (even as if a mercenary) or I am getting something I could get even if I provide any service or not. You do understand the difference don't you? Or are you saying that any money or benefit provided by a government as socialistic. So they guy who gets hired to pave the road is just a socialist too, but only if he is providing and being compensated by a government agency, if he is paving a parking lot for a private business, he is an evil capitalist. Forget the dog, Beware of Owner |
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Experienced Member |
I do not get anything I do not work for.
No I do not receive a government retirement payment yet, even though I have provided the work for one. I also do not, and will not, receive any check for work I did not perform. Forget the dog, Beware of Owner |
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Experienced Member |
Ummmmm I am pretty sure those are actually private organizations Forget the dog, Beware of Owner |
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New Member |
I think you've confused "Capitalism" (an economic policy) with "Democracy". They are not the same thing. FREEDOM OF SPEECH is a tenant of Democracy - and has nothing to do with Capitalism. China has Free Market Capitalism, but it's a Communist (politically) country. Saudi Arabia, Qatar, UAE and other Middle Eastern countries have Free Market Capitalism, but they are Monarchies and Dictatorships. On the other hand, many countries have political Democracy and lean towards economic Socialism. New Zealand, Canada, Norway, Sweden, France, England...for that matter most of Europe have much more "socialism" in their government economic policies. More than America - they have more government regulations and, they all have universal healthcare. I'd like to think that it's Democracy that is the American way of life, not Capitalism. |
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Member |
So yer saying this great country was founded on socialism and democracy? How odd. |
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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Point-Counterpoint Yeah, let’s get rid of Socialism!
