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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Point-Counterpoint Our youth is out of control. Have parents forgotten the ancient methods of discipline|
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20 days off 23 Jan 09 Fin  |
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''Dance like no one is watching" |
Dang! Your parents beat you with those toy train tracks?
 I'm a belt generation(dad used the belt), and back then it wasn't called abuse. "It is the weak who are cruel. Gentleness can only be expected from the strong" -- Leo Roskin |
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Banned by admin |
because the nanny state created by the liberals have made it illegal for parents to do just that...
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Experienced Member |
Our youth are not out of control, they are simply victims of bad parenting.....
Personally, I do not believe in whipping children and I never was spanked as a child...To me it is just lazy parenting, looking for the quick fix.... There are plenty of more well-thought punishments you can give your children, than spanking...Eventually they will become immune to the sting...Then what? Children who are spanked tend to be more aggressive and violent as well.... |
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Member |
Like time out?? |
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20 days off 23 Jan 09 Fin |
like sending them to face the corner? Or time out? Or taking their xbox away? or sending them to their room?  Spanking is the most effective way of punishment. When I was a kid I didn't care if you took my Nintendo away, or sent me to my room... but grandmammas belt, now that's what made me shut the hell up |
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Experienced Member |
------------------------------------------------ If children can learn the wrong way, they can learn the right way...Children also needs structure...daily structure...So with my children their is a time for everything, play, homework, quiet time...Which takes alot of patience on the parents part, but it can be done without spanking... |
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Experienced Member |
You are never going to be able to prove that spanking is the best form of punishment for children...Since so many parents, have parented without spanking and have raised non-violent productive children...
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Experienced Member |
THere are many inmates in prison that have never been spanked in their lives (their own words), maybe that is part of the problem for them being in prison (lack of discepline), and you are just not realizing that spanking in some cases is the best scenario. . .All those I know that were spanked as children when they were really bad tried to do better the next time around as well as they turned out to be decent human beings who cared about themselves as well as others, not savage beasts as some would have you believe! Texas is a pro-spank state as long as it is used in a reasonable form of discelpline, but Texas does not tolerate child abuse which is different then that of just a spanking on the buttocks. I think in California you can spank as well, but it is under challange to make it illegal (last I heard), so it depends on each state to whether or not it is allowed, allways best to check first. I would like to see proof that spanking actually turns people into violent human beings, for I have only seen the opposite of that. I have also seen parents fail in raising decent/good children by not using the proper discelpine (spanking) when they had the chance early on(once the child is to old it is too late to try to fix). All one has to do is look at society nowadays to see that our younger generation comming out of the no-spank era, are turning out lazy, disrespectful, selfish, and violent towards others (sad). |
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If you can read, write and speak ENGLISH ~ THANK A VETERAN! |
LOL! I remember switches from the trees!  There were 5 of us and when one got in trouble, all got in trouble. NOT FARE!  Kind of like boot camp! GOD BLESS AMERICA! GOD BLESS OUR MILITARY! |
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Member |
LMAO... The proof is in the papers and in our governement everyday.. I don't know WTF you're talking about..LOL...  |
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Experienced Member |
------------------------------------------------ Actually, most of what you see in prisons today are people from broken and dysfunctional homes or physically or sexually abused children... Our prisons are also populated with generations of the same families in and out of jail...I doubt whether or not to discipline their children was ever on the table,,,yes people do raise their children in total disregards of them and structure...Structure is discipline as well, the best kind...Self-discipline. |
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Member |
All children are different, as we are different as adults.
What works for one will not work for another. I have raised 2 boys, now men, and two stepchildren, now adults. My boys were spanked. There were certainly other punishments used and sometimes there was none. They were proud there was a variation. LOL My stepchildren on the other hand rarely got spankings, except by me and that too was rare. My stepson would fall down at the thought of a spanking. My stepdaughter hardly got one and needed them. Both eventually got into trouble. My children did not...actually, they were probably very lucky, as was I. My parents used a variation of punishment, from switches to belts to man dad's hand (and he had big hands). My mother would get mad and wouldn't speak to me for days....that was worse than a spanking. She would also talk you to death, also worse than getting a spanking and getting it over with. Other times, we had a great switch bush outside. She was paralyzed and confined to a wheel chair, so we had to go and cut the switches ourselves. If it didn't appear that it would last through the punishment, we got sent back outside to get another. My brother and I, when we were younger, were made to "hug" and make up. That was yucky to say the least. Or, we were put in a really big closet, I mean big, together with nothing to do but look at each other. That normally lasted about 30 minutes and we were ready to behave. To say a child should NEVER be spanked, I think, is wrong. People react to PAIN. It should be as a last resort, but when grounding, nose in the circle, quiet time, time outs, etc. fail, red marks on the a$$ will definitely get their attention. There were times when I got a spanking from my dad and I didn't do anything wrong. Problem? Nope, that just made up for the 100 times I didn't get caught. |
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Member |
Physiologically, the most fundamental reflex/response loop is the startle-response. It pulls fingers away from lit matches, it makes eyes blink when the dimwit in the other lane hits his high-beams. It instantly bypasses the conscious control systems of the brain and tunes it in to the perceived threat. A loud yell, the snarl of a wild cat in the brush, the scratch of the puma's claws on the rock, the sting and smack of the palm of the hand on the cheek of the butt. They all gather the attention in a profound and intimate way. |
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Member |
I am 55 and had an only child who is now 32. I never beat her, but I did take the time to play with her when she was little and I always took an interest in her life. She turned out great, no jail time, no drug or alcohol problems, graduated, has a good job and married to a really nice military man for over 4 years now. Her only marraige. I got on my hands and knees and played with her when she was tiny. Took her swimmin, campin, raftin and fishin as she got older, got involved in her schooling (it doesn't stop when they leave the school house)an tought her that honesty, above all else is what is most important.
I truthfully feel that the problem with todays youth is that parents don't spend enough time with their kids. Daycare, nintendo and tv are not the answer for raising kids and neither are deadbeat divorced parents. |
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Experienced Member |
------------------------------------------------ Exactly! My parents always spent alot of time with us, involved in our school activities...Our weekends was spent doing things together as a family...None of my siblings nor I was spanked, slapped, punched or stuck in the corner...None of us have been to jail, we have families, healthy marriages and children we can afford...All of my siblings our college educated.. I do not spank my children and never will...But, I do spend time with them...I do participate in school activities and after school activities...We take plenty of family trips and weekend getaways together...My son has a computer and x-box...However, between school, homework, afterschool activities and time spent with his family...Rarely does he plays with those items during the week...I have no problem with TV......So perhaps daily structure and involvement in our children lifes, will make the difference.... However, that would be more time consuming for a parent than a couple of spanks, slaps or punches... |
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Member |
 My lad is almost twelve, been following this train of thought and it's working well. I told him at an early age I don't believe in spanking, but I'll put ya through a concrete wall if I have to.Ain't never had to even come close. As a boy who grew up fatherless, the only thing I ever wanted, was a Dad to pay attention to me. When I decided to hatch a young'un, I simply remembered that...oh and it gave me a great oppourtunity to bring out my box of Hotwheels and enjoy a second childhood.The hotwheels are his now and I have to ask permission to play with em now, go figure. |
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member "Ride the Lightning" |
Pomelesk--It is people like you who have taken away a parent's ability to discipline their children with out fear of having them taken away by a society that believes IT knows better how to raise your children than you do. It is DEFINATELY why we have an entire generation of disrespectful, uncontrollable, spoiled teenagers and young adults who have never been required to take responsibilty for their actions or themselves.
My mother used the West Virginia method when i was real young for punishment. I cut the switch from the tree that she would use to whoop me with(pants down, of course). Later it graduated to those big 1970's belts. After she remarried it was my stepdad's paddle that was a gift from his fraternity brothers in college. There were other methods used as well, but these were the main ones. I am a firm believer that boys in particular only respect pain. You may get to a girl by way of her emotions(I.E. tell a girl she hurt mommy's feelings and the girl may break down and cry), but most boys really don't give a crap about feelings and emotions. If you were to tell me that my punishment was going to be a grounding or something, i would be smiling and thanking God it wasn't a belt coming my way. Groundings were easy and made no difference in my behavior. Fear of corporal punishment kept me in line nicely. It is the way i was raised and i believe it is the right way. It will be the way my son will be raised, as well. I believe if half these kids were bent over and whooped a few times in their lives, we'd all be better off for it. |
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Experienced Member |
Whether to spank or not would seem to depend on the Child and circumstances. As a "routine" method of behavioral control, I would think it would be a poor one. HOWEVER, for the children who simply won't LISTEN, who "blows you off", it is a real attention getter. I would use it very sparingily and again depending on the child and circumstances. Pain IS of course a very effective teacher, but observe the effects of unending pain on people generally. After awhile, it simply gets either blocked out or the person "adapts" to it in some manner. This is of course CHROINIC pain. Intermittant pain however, avoids the adaptation or blocking for most parts. Thus, as a tool for discipline, it should be used SPARINGLY, if you chose to use it at all. For some children, it would just be a waste of time. For others, once may be enough.
You have to LEARN what works for your child. Also, you should realize that the INTENT is to GUIDE and encourage SELF DISCIPLINE in the youth. External FORCE applied, does not usually help the process of self discipline. Either it is RESENTED and fought against or the person gives up and passivly resists. It also creates a poor self image in the youth. We are here as parents to protect and ASSIST the child in finding their path in life and to encourage them in expressing the gifts they carry within themselves for the World. (And they all have one) The very concept of "punishment" does not seem to be in harmony with that principle. We are not here to PUNISH our children, but to love and guide and encourage them. However you discipline your child, you must ask yourself the question "Is what I am doing loving and does it help to bring out the gift my child has to give"? Far too often, "punishment" is simply an expression of parential anger and frustration and NOT very concerned with the childs wellbeing. It is a SELFISH or indolent attitude in the parent (but not always of course) because the parent will not take the time to find a better way(or HAS not found such at that point), that is more loving and effective. It is the lazy parents way out of the challenge that the youth presents to them. This message has been edited. Last edited by: alcyone, |
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Super Member |
Most parents I know who don't believe in spanking have kids who are out of control, or kids they can't handle.
My sister is one of these no spanking parents. It is funny to watch a grown adult try and reason with a three year old who doesn't want to do something, or stop doing something. Bed time is like this hour plus long affair with them. When she is really serious she'll say "I am going to call your father". "Quis custodiet ipsos custodies" |
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The Spanking Monk "That'll Butter Your Parsnips" 2542 posts as usmc_lovebug  |
Become immune to the sting??? What??? If you're spanking them every time they take a breath, maybe...what kind of people do you think we are? Sheesh...Parents who believe in spanking as a disciplinary tool do not walk around beating their kids with a switch all day long...that is abuse and wouldn't work, anyway...it would be self-defeating. As to spanked kids being more violent as adults, that has not been proven...as a matter of fact it has been very much unproven...think of all the people you encounter here who, every time we have one of these conversations, mentions they were spanked or switched as children. Most of us, actually. Are you saying that we're raving violent lunatics? There is a proper way to apply spanking and an improper way. One is discipline and it works and produces respectful, responsible, and polite children...the other is abuse in which case the kids could go either way. My grandfather had a system...I had to go pick the switch he would use...better not pick one too weak or he'd pick one twice what I would have...I was switched twice. I had it coming both times. I was switched for two completely different offenses because I only had to be told once that each behavior was unacceptable. I am not a violent person, wouldn't dream of being. I applied spanking to my daughter when she was younger...it broke my heart all three times I had to do it...but she corrected the behavior and never showed it again. She is one of the most well-behaved 6-year-olds out there and people tell me so all the time. |
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pending ban Nemesis |
A very interesting subject and one very dear to my heart. I think I'll wait until a few more opinions are in before I add my two penn'orth.
MsG |
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The Spanking Monk "That'll Butter Your Parsnips" 2542 posts as usmc_lovebug |
My ex-husband's new wife doesn't believe in spanking, either...she's a time-out, reason with them forever type of parent...those kids are the most out of control, rude, disrespectful, mean, wayward bunch I have ever had the misfortune of meeting. My husband and I spent the day with them once...a big family outing or whatever...that was all I needed...we'll never do it again. |
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Experienced Member |
Have you been to one (prison)? You should go visit one before throwing opinion about what causes a criminal to be a criminal. Some are there do to disfunctional families, but that is just an excuse they use (pitty me), because many children grow up in the same ways combined with discelpline that end up just fine. Enough excuses, these people are what they are usually by their own choice and actions, caused by the lack of guidence, love, and proper discepline (the legal consequences of crime are not enough to deter alone, proven throughout history). Untill you have been there, done that, you really have NO CLUE! Structure is not discepline it is what it is, structure. Self-discepline does not work for many (again society shows us this daily) and any obtained is usually obtained through proper discepline combined with a structured environment, some need guidence constantly to stay on the right track even as adults (of course some more than others, each is needing on an indavidual basis). |
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Experienced Member |
You are never going to prove that spanking is not the best form of punishment for children.....Since so many parents, have parented with spanking and have raised non-violent productive children. I used a combination of both in a progressive manner with explainations at each step as to why. I have heard over and over again from other parents and teachers that my children are very well behaved and they wish their children would act like that. Wishing had nothing to do with it. My oldest is 12 now and still, when he is doing something he is not supposed to, all I need to do is catch his eye and shake my head and it stops. Forget the dog, Beware of Owner |
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Experienced Member |
One of my grandsons is just the opposite. He constantly runs around , tearing stuff up and does not respond to verbal commands. My daughter is constantly yelling at him or switching him. He a pretty tough boy and has a high pain threshold. Seldom cries and then only for a few moments. Then he is off again. I DID find another technique that worked with him, I simply give him a "time out", BUT the timeout consists in just holding him and not letting him run around. He really hates that and struggles and cries conmtinuously when I do it. I am FIRM with restraining him, but don't do it angrily. After 20 minutes of "time out", wonder of wonders, he LISTENS to me and does what I tell him. (At least for awhile) I feel that with more interraction with him in this manner, that he will come around. (Try to feel LOVE for the child while doing this if you can as that helps in the process. They then don't feel you are an enemy, even if they don't like what you are doing) |
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Member |
That sounds rather sadistic. From my own observations from friends I grew up with, that kind of parenting only raises violent anti-social types who end up to be failures in life and at least half of them will grow up hating their parents. Ironically enough, all the people I know whose parents believed in politically-correct lovey-dovey approaches to parenting with "talking" rather than "spanking" ended up with not only very successful, happy children, but children who had a very loving relationship with their parents. When you raise your kids with a harsh hand, thats just more reasons for them to rebel against you and they'll turn delinquents. |
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Member |
Yeah, there are millions of parents that have spanked and their children have turned out responsible and productive. As for me, after a certain age, my mother quit spanking and started grounding. And I'm not talking about "the go to your room for two hours" grounding, I mean I sat for day and weeks with nothing to do but read a book. The worst murderers on death row have it easier than me, when mom was pissed. So there are several ways to punish kids, both with harsh measures, or not, but in the end if you go out and commit a serious crime, then your parents failed, and I do see a lot of out of control kids today, because their parents are failing. The average punishment today is a "don't do that again", and that's the end of it. And that alone doesn't work at all. |
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Experienced Member |
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Experienced Member |
------------------------------------------------ Yes, I have vistited a prison before? Riker's island...Whether they are attempting to use pity or not, doesn't take away from the fact that their stats are almost identical in their upbringing. |
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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Point-Counterpoint Our youth is out of control. Have parents forgotten the ancient methods of discipline
