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Military.com Forums Hot Topics & Current Events Point-Counterpoint Police Chiefs: Pass Assault Weapons Ban|
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40 day warning 30 july NEMESIS |
http://www.miamiherald.com/459/story/243073.html
The International Association of Chiefs of Police issued a report at noon Wednesday calling for, among other things, an effective ban of assault weapons, arguing that it helps keep police officers safe by reducing the ``firepower available to criminals.'' The report hits home for South Florida law enforcement officers the week after one of their own was gunned down by an assault rifle. Miami-Dade Mayor Carlos Alvarez, a former police officer and police director, can't hide his anger when he talks about the assault weapons his officers are facing. ''While I feel very strongly about the Second Amendment, I don't think that our founding fathers had AK-47s in mind,'' he said. ``There's absolutely no reason I can see having these weapons out on the street.'' ----------------------------------------- I'm a supporter of the 2ND Amendment, and happen to be a liberal that owns a firearm. Will some on here join me in calling for some "reasonable" legislation? This is not whacked-out folks that are advocating this, it's the Chiefs of Police organization. I have to agree with Mayor Alvarez. I don't think the founders meant for Uzi's, AK-47's, Rocket Propelled Grenades, or .50 cals to be on the streets. Some 2ND Amendment "Dead-enders" want to ignore that "well regulated" portion of the amendment. |
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Experienced Member |
Guess what, genius, AK's, RPG's, Uzi's, etc. are all already facking illegal.
 This is the most worthless thread I've seen all day, which is saying a lot. |
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Member |
Per chance whofreak what are the FBI stats on actual Illegal usage of "Assault Weapons"?
any Idea? |
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Shoot low; The Sheriff's Ride'n a Shetland.  |
Yep, and others want to ignore the "people" part of the amendment. What's your point?
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Peace Through Superior Firepower |
No. Your "reasonable" legislation is unreasonable. "HOW DARE YOU COME INTO MY HOUSE, YOU SON OF A B----!" Susan Buxton, 66, heard over her granddaughter's 911 call. Arlington, TX 9 Nov. 2005. Aired 10 Nov. 2005, WBAP 820, Mark Davis show. She ended up shooting him in the leg when he tried to take her gun. Good shtuff! |
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Experienced Member |
Ok, just read the article, which WhoFreak erroneously interprets, and the Chief from Miami is acting off pure emotion, (always a mistake), with a very simplistic proposal in mind to address a complex problem. Lazy, irresponsible thinking on his part, nothing more.
If he's facing more "assault rifles" on the streets, he needs to arm his officers with superior firepower, which is relatively easily accomplished. Problem solved without creating more draconian federal laws that arguably violate the Constitution. |
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Peace Through Superior Firepower |
By the way, isn't it illegal to shoot police officers with ANYthing?
Or would it have been O.K. if the perp had used a Winchester lever action 30-30? Or a .38 Special? Or a Ginsu knife? What's the acceptable weapon to kill a cop with? "HOW DARE YOU COME INTO MY HOUSE, YOU SON OF A B----!" Susan Buxton, 66, heard over her granddaughter's 911 call. Arlington, TX 9 Nov. 2005. Aired 10 Nov. 2005, WBAP 820, Mark Davis show. She ended up shooting him in the leg when he tried to take her gun. Good shtuff! |
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Shoot low; The Sheriff's Ride'n a Shetland. |
Just another "Freakboy thread"  |
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Member |
Actually, Class III firearms (ie; AK series, Uzi with Full Automatic capability) are legal with Proper permits from the BATF. Destructive devices such as RPG's, are also well regulated. However lets takes whofreaks well-regulated Militia reference to its logical conclusion. Only Military Style Firearms should then be allowed as the Constitution says nothing about "Sporting Purposes" Deer Or Duck Hunting, but Miltia weapons. By his Logic only M16, M4, M14 style personal arms should be allowed. http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/index.htm |
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"Sarcastic Member" |
Yes it unreasonable.
As gets mentioned on most of the gun grabber threads, the 2nd Ammendment is meant to allow the populous to have military weapons. At the time of the ratification ot the Bill of Rights private citizens were allowed to own cannon. Yes, that is right. Private citizens were allowed to own artillery. I cannot thik of a clearer example of what was intended by the authors than that. |
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Member |
Well whofreak, were waiting, where are your statistics which show RPG-7's have been used in crime, or even on the streets of Our Country?
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Experienced Member |
You're right, linedoggie, but no one can stroll into the neighborhood gun shop and pick up a fully automatic anything simply by showing his ID; it takes a series of extensive background checks and most likely certified training to legally own one, that was the point I was trying to make. |
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40 day warning 30 july NEMESIS |
Originally posted by Shades of grey: "Guess what, genius, AK's, RPG's, Uzi's, etc. are all already facking illegal."
Your post is a bit "misleading" to say the least. Here are the facts, and how manufacturers got around the ban. True. An AK-47 off the rack is illegal. True. An AK-47 without certain features is legal. Therefore, your post that they are "already illegal" doesn't pass the smell test. From reports on the legislation. Once certain combinations of features were banned, manufactures complied with the law by removing such combinations of features. For example, the AB-10 was a legal version of the TEC-9, with barrel threading, and barrel shroud removed; the XM-15 was a legal AR-15 without barrel threading, or a bayonet mounting lug; post-ban semi-automatic AK-47s were also sold without folding stocks, bayonet lugs, and with standard or "thumbhole" stocks instead of pistol-grips. As the production of large-capacity magazines for civilians had also been prohibited, manufacturers sold their post-ban firearms either with newly-manufactured magazines with capacities of ten rounds or less, or with pre-ban manufactured high-capacity magazines, to meet changing legal requirements. The BATF technology branch determined in 1994 that muzzle brakes were not impacted by the AWB, and that muzzle brakes on threaded barrels were not an assault weapon feature, so long as they were welded or soldered in place. The law prohibited detachable magazines with a capacity to hold more than ten rounds manufactured after enactment of the law from sale, transfer, or importation. One effect was the increased importation of large quantities of magazines manufactured before the ban from other countries [citation needed]. Former Warsaw Pact countries had large quantities of AK-47 magazines of various capacities that could fit a variety of both pre-ban and post-ban AK-47 variants. Existing stocks of pre-ban American-made magazines were likewise exempt from the ban; this resulted in a brief surge in domestic manufacture of high-capacity magazines before the law took effect. With the ten-round limit on magazine capacity in effect, and some form of concealed carry of firearms legal in over 38 states, manufacturers had an added incentive to design smaller frames at or below the ten-round capacity, thus replacing the previously popular 9mm and .45 ACP "high capacity" pistols. Since they could no longer manufacture the popular 15- and 17-round magazines to consumers, continuing to market the large frames designed for such made less sense. Glock introduced their 10-round capacity 9mm semi-automatic pistol, the Glock 26, in August 1994, in apparent anticipation of the legislation. In 1995, the Kahr Arms company was founded; they debuted their ultra-compact 9mm pistol, the K-9. Smith and Wesson redesigned their small, "J-frame" .38 Special five-round revolvers to accommodate the powerful .357 Magnum cartridge, introducing the new models in 1996. In the years that followed, all manufacturers of semiautomatic pistols followed suit, developing a large array of concealable ten-round pistols in various calibers, including 9mm, 10mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP. In March 2004, Kristen Rand, the legislative director of the Violence Policy Center, criticized the soon-to-expire ban by stating "The 1994 law in theory banned AK-47s, MAC-10s, UZIs, AR-15s and other assault weapons. Yet the gun industry easily found ways around the law and most of these weapons are now sold in post-ban models virtually identical to the guns Congress sought to ban in 1994." Also, right in the article it tells you that in Dade County alone, murders by these type of weapons have gone from 4% to 20%. I'd say that's a trend, and a problem. Local police say the numbers of murders committed with assault weapons has been steadily rising since the ban expired on Sept. 13, 2004. Now that they're more readily available, assault rifles have become more common, Miami Police Chief John Timoney said. ''It's become fashionable if you will,'' he said. ``It's the weapon of choice.'' In the city of Miami, 20 percent of murders this year were committed with assault weapons, up from 4 percent in 2004. |
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Member |
Most definately, anyone legally purchasing such firearms goes through a thorough process. Who freak is typically ignorant
some facts about Firearms crime from the BATF http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/ycgii/2000/index.htm and the DOJ http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/guns.htm |
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40 day warning 30 july NEMESIS |
Your missing the point. It's the Police who are advocating this ban, because of the firepower they are now facing on the streets. There is no acceptable weapon to kill anyone, unless your life is threatened. By trying to muddy the waters with that stupid post, it cheapens all of us. |
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Member |
Whofreak, you've fouled your hawser on your screw son.
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"Sarcastic Member" |
You mean the government is afraid of its citizens. The weapons being used in crimes were already obtained illegally. Making more weapons illegal will not get weapons out of the hands of the criminals who will already have them. And how will it keep such weapons out of the hands of those already planning on violating the law anyway? |
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Member |
I have several "so-called" assault-type rifles, they are all semi-automatic but if you know how to "BUMP FIRE" them you can have loads of fun and they sound like full-auto!
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40 day warning 30 july NEMESIS |
Not sure how your post forwards the debate, but "whatever floats your boat". |
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40 day warning 30 july NEMESIS |
You mean that police officer that lives next door is not a "citizen", but the 'gubmint'?? That sounds like something a "liberal" would say. I've never understood that "well, the criminals will find the guns anyway" argument. Is it your point that we should make it easier for them to obtain these weapons? Hell, if that's the case, why have any laws at all. I mean, afterall, the criminals are just going to break them anyway, so what's the point?. |
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