quote:

Originally posted by TennSlim:
The following is my opinion(Tenn Slim) about Freedom as it relates to how it is paid for via taxes:

Freedom. Are we as Americans completely free? No.(Agree, really never have been since the Founders set in motion the Constitution)

Are there various degrees of Freedom? Yes.(Agree, some are entirely philosophical, others are concrete, identifiable and valid)

As Americans, do we give up degrees of Freedom? Yes. Why? Piece of mind.(I would say some degrees of Freedom are given up by Citizenry Apathy, lack of Civic education, and erosion of moral values over time)

"The above begs the question. How much Freedom are you willing to give up for piece of mind?"
My Opine:
Freedom for me is not just piece of mind. That track can lead to serfdom, slavery and chains.
One cannot have true piece of mind, unless he and his family is secure physically, mentally and environmentaly.
Now. To achieve this levelof Freedom, some limited forms of Law, Authority, Regulations, Rules of Behavior have to be ACCEPTED. ACCEPTANCE is the key. AGREEMENT, after discussion, by the majority is the KEY to FREEDOM. PURE UNADULTERATED IMPOSITION is the opposite.
bt
Our Republic has always been Majority Democratic. Only, and only recently, are we reaping the whirlwind of neglect, apathy, and distorted educational disinformation (Propaganda and outright Lies, IE: Global Warming, Fiscal disaster looming, etal)to our dismay. We can now, actually see, actually visiulize the demise of our Nation, our manner of living and view the blatant process in front of our nose.
bt
Freedom, we can sense its departure.
Semper Fi
end

quote:

Originally posted by 14713742:
Freedom. The condition of being free; the power to act or speak or think without externally imposed restraints.

The following is my opinion about Freedom as it relates to how it is paid for via taxes:

Freedom. Are we as Americans completely free? No.

Are there various degrees of Freedom? Yes.

As Americans, do we give up degrees of Freedom? Yes. Why? Piece of mind.

The above begs the question. How much Freedom are you willing to give up for piece of mind?

1. Paying taxes from outside assaults; foreign and domestic?
2. Paying taxes on the common infrastructure of the community; e.g. roads, water etc.?

Given, the current state of affairs in America, and what lawmakers have already done and may be up to now. Given, that there are bad people irrespective of who they are and where they work. How much freedom are you willing to give up in the near future and let the government run even more aspects of the economy and your personal life?

quote:

Originally posted by Fightdirector:
The base problem of your question is that you are restricting the argument about freedom simply based on taxes.

Being free or not being free is much more than how much your local, state or national government taxes you.

Being free or not being free is much more than what your local, state or national government spends that tax money on.

Granted, local, state or national government cannot do anything, legal or illegal, right or wrong, without the funds derived from taxes - so I guess you could argue that putting Japanese-Americans in concentration camps during WWII (in my opinion a violation of the U.S. Constitution) could have been prevented if the American people refused to pay their taxes in 1941 and 1942.

And if the American people refused to pay their taxes in 1949-1950, Senator McCarthy would not have been able to use his Congressional sub-committee to falsely accuse American of being Communists, effectively destroying their lives.

If the people of Birmingham, Alabama refused to pay their city taxes, Sheriff Bull Connor wouldn't have had the funds to hire the police he used to illegally attack the voter's right protestors in 1963.

If J. Edgar Hoover didn't get the federal tax money he used to fund the activities of the FBI - the FBI wouldn't have been able to violate the Constitution and spy on and infiltrate the Viet-Nam Veterans against the War from 1970 until the end of the Viet-Nam War, in an attempt to falsely smear them as Communists.

If Bush and Cheney didn't get federal tax money, there wouldn't be the prison in Gitmo.

Maybe you're right - maybe everything local, state and federal government does that is illegal comes down to taxes.

quote:

Originally posted by SeaWitch1220:
Werd!

quote:

Originally posted by Fightdirector:

quote:

Originally posted by 14713742:
Freedom. The condition of being free; the power to act or speak or think without externally imposed restraints.

The following is my opinion about Freedom as it relates to how it is paid for via taxes:

Freedom. Are we as Americans completely free? No.

Are there various degrees of Freedom? Yes.

As Americans, do we give up degrees of Freedom? Yes. Why? Piece of mind.

The above begs the question. How much Freedom are you willing to give up for piece of mind?

1. Paying taxes from outside assaults; foreign and domestic?
2. Paying taxes on the common infrastructure of the community; e.g. roads, water etc.?

Given, the current state of affairs in America, and what lawmakers have already done and may be up to now. Given, that there are bad people irrespective of who they are and where they work. How much freedom are you willing to give up in the near future and let the government run even more aspects of the economy and your personal life?

The base problem of your question is that you are restricting the argument about freedom simply based on taxes.

Being free or not being free is much more than how much your local, state or national government taxes you.

Being free or not being free is much more than what your local, state or national government spends that tax money on.

Granted, local, state or national government cannot do anything, legal or illegal, right or wrong, without the funds derived from taxes - so I guess you could argue that putting Japanese-Americans in concentration camps during WWII (in my opinion a violation of the U.S. Constitution) could have been prevented if the American people refused to pay their taxes in 1941 and 1942.

And if the American people refused to pay their taxes in 1949-1950, Senator McCarthy would not have been able to use his Congressional sub-committee to falsely accuse American of being Communists, effectively destroying their lives.

If the people of Birmingham, Alabama refused to pay their city taxes, Sheriff Bull Connor wouldn't have had the funds to hire the police he used to illegally attack the voter's right protestors in 1963.

If J. Edgar Hoover didn't get the federal tax money he used to fund the activities of the FBI - the FBI wouldn't have been able to violate the Constitution and spy on and infiltrate the Viet-Nam Veterans against the War from 1970 until the end of the Viet-Nam War, in an attempt to falsely smear them as Communists.

If Bush and Cheney didn't get federal tax money, there wouldn't be the prison in Gitmo.

Maybe you're right - maybe everything local, state and federal government does that is illegal comes down to taxes.

quote:

Originally posted by 14713742:
May the strongest Liberal (Socialist-I want more of your stuff for me) or Freedom loving American Win!

quote:

Originally posted by Fightdirector:

quote:

Originally posted by 14713742:
May the strongest Liberal (Socialist-I want more of your stuff for me) or Freedom loving American Win!

I would suggest that a more accurate statement might be:

May the strongest Liberal (Socialist - I want more of your stuff for me), vsConservativeFreedom Loving American ( I know what's best for you - trust me and don't question me or I'll call you "un-American"a Socialist) Freedom loving American Win!

SadlyThankfully, Freedom loving Americans (compared to Liberals, Conservatives and those who don't care about anything except being left alone) are a distinct minority majority.

quote:

Originally posted by 14713742:
Freedom. The condition of being free; the power to act or speak or think without externally imposed restraints.

The following is my opinion about Freedom as it relates to how it is paid for via taxes:

Freedom. Are we as Americans completely free? No.

Are there various degrees of Freedom? Yes.

As Americans, do we give up degrees of Freedom? Yes. Why? Piece of mind.

The above begs the question. How much Freedom are you willing to give up for piece of mind?

1. Paying taxes from outside assaults; foreign and domestic?
2. Paying taxes on the common infrastructure of the community; e.g. roads, water etc.?

Given, the current state of affairs in America, and what lawmakers have already done and may be up to now. Given, that there are bad people irrespective of who they are and where they work. How much freedom are you willing to give up in the near future and let the government run even more aspects of the economy and your personal life?

quote:

Originally posted by xerello:

quote:

Originally posted by 14713742:
Freedom. The condition of being free; the power to act or speak or think without externally imposed restraints.

The following is my opinion about Freedom as it relates to how it is paid for via taxes:

Freedom. Are we as Americans completely free? No.

Are there various degrees of Freedom? Yes.

As Americans, do we give up degrees of Freedom? Yes. Why? Piece of mind.

The above begs the question. How much Freedom are you willing to give up for piece of mind?

1. Paying taxes from outside assaults; foreign and domestic?
2. Paying taxes on the common infrastructure of the community; e.g. roads, water etc.?

Given, the current state of affairs in America, and what lawmakers have already done and may be up to now. Given, that there are bad people irrespective of who they are and where they work. How much freedom are you willing to give up in the near future and let the government run even more aspects of the economy and your personal life?

What freedom have you or anyone you know lost in the last eight months?

What freedom have you or anyone you know lost in the last eight years?

What freedom have you or anyone you know lost since the 1950s “the happy days” when taxes were much, much higher than they are now?

quote:

Originally posted by 14713742:
How much freedom are you willing to give up in the near future and let the government run even more aspects of the economy and your personal life?

quote:

Originally posted by SignalSgtWilliams:

quote:

Originally posted by 14713742:
How much freedom are you willing to give up in the near future and let the government run even more aspects of the economy and your personal life?

NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

quote:

Freedom:What are you willing to trade for piece of mind?