how many times have you hear veterans' preference only gets you in the front door? Once you get in the front door then what? Does your boss feel slighted because his friend or relative didn't get the job and you did? So they take their anger out on you to make you quit the job so their friend can get it in the long run.
I would like to try and get veterans to be a protected class like women, gays and the disabled. If anyone deserves we sure as hell do.
I would to hear about your discrimination not matter how minor it may be.
I especially would like to hear from those who employed by the federal government. I hear of so many cases of veteran discrimination from federal employers.
my email is
<< Mod Note - Email removed - >>
I have found that many veterans, especially disabled veterans are being discriiminated against in the work place whether federal or not. Employers are scared off by hiring veterans because they always think of the worst possible situation. You're going to flip out on someone in the workplace and hurt them. What they don't realize is the it takes alot of self control not to shoot everything under the sun. Veterans are more disciplined in the way they act. Someone do have problems but when they are in the system, they can be helped.This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dave_M,
Ruptured Duck-Derelict Vets
Interesting comment..Are there not Women Veterans? Please read your whole post again..and then repost..You then might get someone to answer your "Discrimination against Veterans post" Maybe even read about the Major problems women Vets have today.
Sometimes veterans preference doesn't even get you in the door.
Ultimately what I would like to see is people actually following the rules that are in place. Honest and ethical behavior is something that should be encouraged in federal service. But from a lot of news stories, and posts on the net, it almost seems like those virtues are discouraged in some federal agencies.
As you can see from my posts in this forum, even when confronted with evidence that someone has been less than honest, nothing will usually happen to those people. That failure to promote honest and ethical behavior, indeed even encouraging the opposite, speaks to a problem with the very foundation of how our government is run.
The real question is what can we citizens do about it?
Ok sorry for the miscommunication is was trying to write this post in a hurry...
I was not try to leave out women veterans, Sex is considered a protected class under federal law. But women veterans would doubly protected if veteran status was to but included. Like an african American Homosexual is protected under both Nationality and Sexual preference.
Under this statement you're saying that honest and ethical behavior is not rewarded in the federal work place. I tend to agree. I use the work for the federal government and my wife still does. We have found that management would rather do something their than the right way. But you can blow the whistle and than be protected under the Whistleblower. Sometime that doesn't stop them from firing you first than the management will ask for forgiveness after their actions. But you can get your job back under Whistleblower protection.
If you have any other questions [EMAIL]
<< Mod Note - Email removed - >>This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dave_M,
USERRA and some state laws protect veterans from discrimination. If the employer is found to be in violation of the law, they will not be happy! Tort claims filed in the area of the discrimination would also benefit veteran(s.
Veterans are considered a protectd class in fact Employers that hire veterans can ge tthe same Work Opportunity Tax credit as they can hireing Welfare Tranistion, Ex-Offenders, disabled and other "hard to place" job seekers.
Veterans Preferance is not understood by most employeers and it does nto help that the Federaly funded Privatized WorkForce Board System which has replaced the Federaly funded State run Employment services. The Employers you will find the most in violation of Veteran's Preferance and other DOL Fair Business and Labor practices are on these Workforce boards. Why well because there is a lot of money being taken out of job readiness, job seeker training and Veteran Employment Assistance programs (a little more than half of every program dollar). The businesses "running the Workforce boards" have them selves set up to get OJT money for people when they hire them (we aren't talkign OJT programs as they are MENT to be run we are talking about OJT programs as they ARE being run.
OJT - supposed to a company agrees to hire someone that might not have all the skills needed for a position. So the company gets half the person's salary paid for 6 months and they get additional training. Can also be used in having a person with disablities allowed the extended training time with or without a job coach.
the way they are doing it... Company has an opening and they go through thier normal hire process hire the best candidate and then go over and fill out a paper saying it is an OJT and they get half the salary paid for 6 months on someone they were going to hire anyway.
Employed Worker Training - Supposed to be to allow companies to train lower skilled workers that will be laid off if not able to move to a higher level or without a required certification to allow those workers to have the training paid for. The company is allowed $1500 per worker up to a max of $20,000 per year.
The way it is working well lets just say not sure how the $36, $25, 17.50 an hour managers at a Board member company really get away with the $100 CPR class taught by a Board Member's spouse earning them $1,500 tot he company each????
Humm lets see the Workforce Boards have had a major good time with the Recovery act money.. A few more people are getting training but you also have the hire your friend to be a "customer advocate" and all the Boards have had some major "job creation" of 6 figure positions for the spouses of CEOs to fill.
As far as discrimination in violation of the FEDERAL DOL VETS program which I work under I was told today to REFUSE services to Veteran's that do not have thier DD214 with them! This is a violation of the Federal law and sorry but I'm serving my Veteran clients with or without it and the overpaied NON VETERAN Buddy system Board can kiss my tushy! I've put them in front of the DOL before when they tried to jump at me for recending a job offer to a veteran because he has scrapnel wounds. And the DOL has had problems in the past not having the teeth to make the laws stick but they are starting to have a little bite again had a few companies lately that for the last 7 years totally ignored everythign I said and now they call me monthly to check in since they had 6 figure fines in recent audits!
Want to make Vet Preferance stick. Write the White House tell them Clinton did the worst thing for the job seeker possible may makign the Workforce services under Workforce Investment Act and Wagner Peyser privatized. All that has been created is a sieve for half of every program dollar and a Kick Back bounty for companies that are on the Workforce bords.
State Run Or Federal run tell them make a choice cause we are sick of paying for a losing system and those of us on the frint lines are sick of not having the program resources needed to help our clients!
|You know when you're a redneck when your limited to once a day on the UFO sighting hot line!|
This is the very thing that has me worried. I'm planing a transition out after my PhD program, and if the economy does not come back, and let me tell you the jobs at every level simply aren't there, then what does one do?
Worst Case and True,
I am 51 years of age, Senior Electronic Engineer and experienced global manager. After service in 1979 (2/75th Ranger Battalion, I spent more than 10 years attending schools. Worked for corporations such as GM, Hughes Aircraft, contract work (manager) for projects for Honeywell, BOEING Aircraft and others.
I worked abroad for a number of years in Asia, Operations and Technical Director 6-7 years, working with companies from around the globe, I returned to the US in the summer of 2007. I spoke with a manager from one company that performs projects for The FRA and they immediately hired me, but said it would be a remote job. They would only hire me as a Senior Engineer, but I was an experienced manager - 17 years. I had to drive 500 miles to work on Sunday and drive back 500 miles Friday night to go home. This wasn't appropriate, they wouldn't relocate me. I knew with my skills and experience I would be promoted within months. I was asked to manage and advise for some projects they had problems with that were incomplete for over (3) years. I already had extensive experience with these types of systems. But there were problems, the VP of this specific division (50 people) wouldn't give me access to the server for documents to study the projects and technical issues, nor would any of their project managers. I was the only person in the company denied access, even younger people hired the same time were given access. The VP said he didn't trust me yet, he had other plans. I had to go around and ask people if they could get information for me, some would and some wouldn't. Many of the employees though this was funny, I did not. However I performed the work to a high standard. A company I worked with in Asia contacted this company and some strange things accorded. The VP later said he was going to start his own company and before he started the company he terminated me for no reason. He said your work was very good, you just don't fit into the company. The reason was clear to me, I had influence in Asia and the other company didn't want me working on projects in Asia for this company. Thereafter, I contacted the HR Manager at the corporate office and they investigated, she said were changing the termination to layoff. The VP was going to be spoken with because this was inappropriate. I told the HR Manager I was going to contact an Veterans Oversight Commitee to investigate, she told me that wasn't necessary they were bringing me back. That wasn't the case, the VP however started a small software company and started marketing the company that contacted him to terminate me. I sent this information (brochure) to the HR Manager and they didn't reply. They had all employee's disconnect communications to me. Two months later the VP was given a management position with The FRA, two months earlier during my discrimination case the company that did this to me recieved an award for best place to work in Washington DC, and for the company providing the best working environment to employee's. Now the company can't bring me back, because the VP that discriminated me is now an official for The FRA and determines whether of not this company gets contracts from the government. So the VP that discriminated against me was promoted into a Federal position, and the company kept my case quite so they could get their award. What happened to me? I contacted many Federal Departments and no one would provide assistance, I contacted a State Senator and he told me he wasn't getting involved. The other company that contacted the VP did this so they could maintain a monoploy in Asia, and they knew I had influence there. I am now unable to get work anywhere in the US. Have tried since the summer of 2008 when this company did this to me. The problem is many of the employee's are related to FRA Officials so no government office will investigate. The VP that discriminate against me, no Federal Office will investigate the new Federal Official.
That's what happens to Veterans, there were few veterans that worked for this company. Mainly people with relatives to officials.
This company destroyed my entire professional career in (5) months. However they collected much information from me for contracts in Asia, business cards, and solutions to some of their projects. The other company obtained their monoply and obviously helped the VP with his Federal position.
Not even The Veterans Administration would provide any assistance.
Worst Case and True, continued for Veterans ONLY
More of my back ground, while serving in the 2/75th Ranger Battalion was under the command of Lt. Colonel Downing (later General Downing, later Presidential Advisor for counter terrorism). We developed counter terrorist teams in the late 1970’s, and that’s how Delta Force was created.
The company that worked with this VP to get me terminated? (What he doesn’t know about this company) There’s more to this story then the Asian monopoly. I worked with this company about (6) years ago, for about a year and one-half until they partnered with Asian Weapons Development Company. A company called “502”, a secret government company (not an agency US companies work with, communist country). After the partnership, I departed this company because their new partner provides weapons technology to the Middle East. I am an experienced Senior Electronic Engineer, and aware this technology (instruments) can be modified for missile technology, both stability and laser guidance. Thereafter, some things occurred and I worked with a Federal Department to assist them with an investigation of this company and component exports. They started an investigation prior to my departure, and wanted me to assist them after departing the company. I decided to perform work for European Company, different technologies. However, I assisted the Federal Agency for several months until one day they came to my house when back in the US, and told me they can no longer investigate due to business in this country? They were told to turn their heads and ignore, bottom line. I knew there was trouble coming.
How did this company stop the investigation? The investigation stopped after the company hired a relative of a Federal Official (about 2005). Thereafter, information was leaked directly to the company about my work with The Federal Agency, so people from this company started telling people in this country I was a US Spy. This was a small US company, only 15-20 employees. Things started to get dangerous, especially when people from this company started telling Asian people your (US Veteran) was a spy for the US? Yes, there are business people in the US that believe there’s benefit and rewards for telling people in a communist country you’re a US Spy. Do you think these business people care if the technology is used for developing missiles and sold to Middle East, absolutely not. Why would they tell Asian people, you are a US Spy? It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize why.
I reported this several times, but the Federal Agency wasn’t allowed to do anything. That’s the other reason the company continued their pursuit after I returned to the US. Just before returning to the US, I attended a meeting where they promoted their instrument technology as being similar to that used for missile technology. None of the managers from this company were veterans; they wanted quick money regardless of application. And this Asian country performs projects in Iran (Military company building underground subways?), with history of assisting Middle Eastern countries with weapons technology. Another is Pakistan and for what technology? That’s easy.
Message to young soldier’s, this is a true story…so remember.
Regardless of what you do in life, always remember those soldiers on the battlefield. There’s a difference between business people (veterans), and business people that do anything for quick wealth, regardless of the technology and possible threat to soldiers on the battlefield.
Myself, I was shot in the back. But that’s OK. I would sacrifice my life to watch over our soldiers in the Middle East (Army Ranger, once Ranger always Ranger). War is always greater then the battlefield, just remember to watch over the backs of those soldiers in the fire fight.
Now the (4) business people involved in the technology transfer, they got very wealthy.
That's my last story.
|Highly Experienced Member|
^^^ Well, I kind of agree with what your saying and this is reason #1 I have stayed away from any company involved in Defense Contracting. I heard of stories from former Hughes employees that got fed up and transferred to General Motors HQ. One of them, a female was actually chased around a desk by her Neandrathal Male boss.
Same deal with a local DFW but large Defense Contractor for the Air Force. Heard some stories there as well.
So anyhow, made the choice a long time ago to avoid Defense Contractors and never regretted it since.
Never worked for a defense company, when working for Hughes was plant launch engineer and manager consultant to GM. GM owned Hughes during this time. I have never worked for a defense company. No company I speak about above were defense companies with exception of Hughes, but I was not in this division. Was in the GM Division.
As a women and Vietnam disable veteran, and current federal employee - I have of lot of disadvantages in the workforce including my current age factor - over the hill.
I have been passed over for many years many non veterans or street hired contractors in the department. I've been told my place was to go get supplies or a food run. It's a guy thing!
In the service I was a key supervisor managing 12 people, copying morse code, and relying message traffic about enemy ship approaching in the bay.
It's been a long journey in the Federal Government workforce. I have been in the so call realignment struture twice where the govt got out of utilizing the RIF laws to protect Veteran rights and time in service. I lost my time in grade and had to re-apply for jobs else where.
Our country hides behind the laws they create for themselves. The rules are made to protect anyone but those seems to make the sacrifice. I would never put myself in harms way to defend any of these vultures again. They flock in packs against us and pick at our bones every day without mercy.
I am researching how well veterans with disabilities understand and are able to apply their legal rights as people with disabilities in the workforce. Your participation will provide valuable information intended to help improve employment services for veterans with disabilities. I posted a few questions below and would love it if people would discuss some or are all of the questions I posted below. Responses can be informal.
What do you know about the Americans with Disabilities Act?
Are you disabled? If so what is you disability?
Do you have a VA disability rating? If so what is you rating?
How likely is it that you will tell your employer that you have a disability after you are employed? Why?
How likely is it that you will ask for (an) accommodation(s) (a change in work equipment or practices) for your disability after you are employed? Why?
Do you fear disability discrimination (worse treamtment because of your disability) after you are employed? Why?
As a veteran with disabilities do you feel that there are unrealistic expectations from employers as I learn to navigate the world with your new acquired disability?
Are you prepared to advocate for your rights in the workplace as a person with disabilities?
Are you concerned that your disability will prevent you from obtaining many jobs?
Do you have concerns that your disability will prevent you from performing the essential job functions of many jobs?
Do you have a good understanding of what type of accommodations you will need to be effective on the job?This message has been edited. Last edited by: jsw274,
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OP must read user agreement found at the bottom of this page and agree to follow the rules.This message has been edited. Last edited by: OldArmyLove,
Who are you researching for? How will it help us? You have very thought out questions that seem very corporate and no information on what help organization you represent.
Being a DV that has faced and is facing workplace discrimination has left me cynical on "I want to help" groups that are not spelling out who they are and their agenda.
People do not understand veterans preference.
Back in the day of civil service tests it made a difference, where points were taken from a test.
Today they assign points based on subjective factors; job experience and specific educational and job skill training. Then points are added. Since it changes from position to position, you need to make sure your qualifications are exactly what are spelled out in the job description.
Since military people do not have specific job experience if they have never had a civilian job then you are screwed.
Concerning protected classes. That is also misunderstood. Disabled is the only protect class where affirmative action is allowed in hiring. And guess what, it is pointless as well.
Most employers hire through the ticket to work, so if you are a veteran and not getting ssdi, you are really at a disadvantage.
Plus if you are a totally disabled vet you probably have serious gaps in your employment history. Which pretty much kills any job prospects. Unless an employer is specifically looking to to a solid for a disabled vet.
The other issue is that the ADA gets in the way with seriously disbled. Anyone who can get a note from their doctor concerning karpels tunnel is technically disabled.
Look at it this way. Your local veterans post does not hire veterans to tend bar. They are usually the friend of someone with political clout in the organization. So if veterans organizations won't hire vets first, why should anyone else?
Now the vocrehab and career counslers at the VA do have some programs that will help. The VA goes out of its way to give jobs to vocrehab vets.
There is also the Veterans recruitment authority. Though that program is poorly thought out and they need to really change it. Something I having been pushing with my Senator.
These are the type of issues that Veterans organizations should address, but they don't. Because the majority of their membership are not the disbled. They instead are representing the older vets who want the VA to cover medicare gaps.. I only wish my issues in life were that trivial.
Sad to say discrimination for women are bad in the federal work place. Male or female it is hard to be excepted if you are military and your boss or supervisor is not. There is and was discremination in the military for women. And women are instructed to rise above it and that how great they are for doing so. In the federal employeement being discriminated because you know the rules of not discrimating toward women is harmful. The male structure like women that do not have knowledge of this, so they can pray on them for promotions and such. The military women are ignored because they know the law and or regualtions in the federal system so that do not want to have anything to do with you if you are assertive or have a head on your sholders that may work. Also other Vets that are supervisors that were junior enlisted and now are supervisors at there job because they did not retire or spend anything but short time in the military and you have 24 year. They just have to put you down and try and make themselfs look good and then argue with you on how the military is today. Only what they know back in the 70's, not 2011 so as a female retired officer other vets and people with a college degree that has been her before the 90s' either sexually harrass and still have a good ol' boy system with vets. So when a supervisor chases you around a desk do what any female soldier/sailor/marine/airman/would do.......
Welcome to the club, I work in the Northern Cal Healthcare System and being a male veteran counts double against you; if you’re disabled it is even worse. I am a SGM in the Army Reserves, Iraqi combat wounded, with 30% service connected disability, over 20 years of nursing experience and have a Master’s Degree in Nursing, but I am constantly told I don’t qualify for a job because I lack leadership or management experience, but the job is filled by a younger Asian female without an advanced degree and no experience. When I first applied for a job they completely ignored the SF 15 and my Purple Heart. I’ve had Congressman Daniel Lungren write letters to the Hospital Director asking about the Disabled Veterans Affirmative Action Plan (DVAAP) and the director has no idea what it is or what to do about it. The problem is there is no support or enforcement of the DVAAP that is intended to help recruit, hire and advance disabled veterans. The DVAAP is a congressional mandate not an option. It applies to title 5 and 38 employees. I had to sue the VA just to get a job off the floor after I injured my neck while lifting a patient, because they refused to resign me after my second injury on the floor. Their motto is **** the male Veteran employee mostly hire underqualified female Pilipino nurses.
|Moderator, Veteran's Education|
MSG, USA (Ret),School Certifying Official
Please do not reply to a DECEMBER 2010 post. Most of the people who contributed to this discussion are long gone. We ask that you only reply to current (last 30 to 45 days) posts or start a new discussion.
All opinions I express on this web site are as a private individual. I am not representing my employer in any shape, means, form, manner or in any official capacity.
I’m a US Armed Forces Combat Disabled Veteran that honorably and proudly served his country. I use to work for the United States Postal Services. I was accused of stealing postal property that never left the room. I picked up the items from a work table I was asked to work at and place them on an open shelf that was six feet away. The property was still there a month later when the OIG interrogate me for the items.
I was also accused of sexually harassing a female (something I did not do). I was removed from my work location and ask to report to a building that was around 10 miles away and place to work with the female’s husband. I was also told by the union that the husband was informed by management and the union that I was the one that harassed his wife. I was asked to write a statement explaining my actions regarding sexually harassing the female. I refuse and as a consequence I received two suspensions. At one point I was given by the USPS the options resign or retire. I was asked by the Veteran Affairs to submit my retirement package. I did and management sent documentation to the Office of Personnel Management documentation showing that I received two suspensions for sexually harassing a female coworker and stealing postal property. Both issues are false and now they became part of my permanent record.
This is not the only thing the USPS did to me in one occasion my manager call my VA doctor gathering information that he shared with HR and Personnel and later they try to use against me. I was placed off work although I had no medical restrictions just because the maintenance manager believed I was unfit fiscally and physiologically. The APWU Union as well as the USPS their OIG work together to violate my civil rights, I’m not the only one they are doing this to. My Congresswoman Kay Granger refuses to help me. I ask her to conduct an inquire, her office informed me that the USPS refuse to corporate. At that point I respectfully requested that her office conducts a congressional investigation on these issues. I have not heard back from her office. Because the USPS is a Federal, it’s hard to find an attorney that will take my case. Now I will not be able to get a City, State or Federal job because I’m burn.
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