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You can still 'have it all'- just have HALF |
What does this job/responsibility or whatever it is mean in enlisted terms? Or, does it vary?
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Basic Training |
Top 3 is an association of the Top 3 enlisted ranks. We focus on improving the quality of life for junior enlisted troops. Activities may vary from base to base.
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Basic Training |
When one gets selected for promotion to E-7, the Top 3 immediately demand money from them for dues. Then they start with organizing burger burns.
I can't wait to retire. "Enlisted men are stupid, but very cunning and deceitful and bear considerable watching," 1894 Officers’ Manual |
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You can still 'have it all'- just have HALF |
Are they in any way akin to Booster Clubs (fundraising) or more just the morale/activity stuff?
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Basic Training |
SOmething lik e that buyt more money grubbing! |
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Basic Training |
They are more for fund-raising to support junior enlisted. |
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Basic Training |
In the past I've seen them throw Christmas parties and the likes for the junior enlisted.
Here, they just raise money, though I don't really know what they do with it. |
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Basic Training |
I know almost all my money goes where it belongs: to the junior enlisted. I can't speak for other bases/units.
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Basic Training |
Aren't Booster Clubs supposed to be fundraising for morale/activity stuff? |
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Forum Lurker |
Well... Supposed to be for morale and welfare for whatever squadron they represent. Generally, from my own experience as being a member of the Top-3, it did work that way for the two that I was actively involved in. We would "support" the junior ranks in their endeavours for morale and welfare (ie... manpower support for activities to raise funds, donate monies to an organization for whatever reason). We had "voluntarily" dues but we raised a truckload of money from some of our own activities. Our Top-3 paid for our squadron's Christmas party. It can be a good thing if it is operated well. The idea is to encourage support but not to demand support. Honestly... I sure got tired of those damn carwashes every other week. |
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Basic Training |
JUST morale/activity stuff? Sorry, but that one little word places those two items in a lower priority than they should be (IMO) Actually, "morale" is the job of not only SNCOs, but also NCOs and "O"s, and also civilian supervisors. It's all of our JOBS to take care of morale of our troops, and fix what we can. Are you talking about the Top-3 RANKS or the Top-3 COUNCIL? Not all in the top-3 ranks are involved in the council. Most don't even attend the meetings. The Top-3 ranks are the Sr Enlisted members in squadrons, groups, and wings. These are (usually) the subject matter experts in their various career fields (except for retrainees like me) THEY are the ones the CCs come to for technical expertise/advise. They are usually in "management" positions instead of "worker bee" postions. The Top-3 Council advises the Command Chief, along with the Shirt's and the Chief's Councils. Top-3 and/or the Shirt councils run the promotion ceremonies, quarterly awards, and other ceremonies for the wing (normally) They also teach the Professional Development Seminar classes. Some bases have very productive Top-3 councils, others just flounder. Top-3 DOES have fundraisers/funds that are used toward enlisted functions like PDC, wing-dings, etc, just like the Chiefs and Shirts councils. But NO the Top-3 does not take the place of booster clubs. |
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Member |
Ok, if there is a Top 3, why is there a Top 4, also? Seriously, why not just make it "Top 5" and get it done and over with?
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Basic Training |
I was in an 80 person squadron that had the booster club and Top 3 competing for fundraising events. The booster club would want to do something and it was shot down because the Top 3 was already planning something similar. Of course, the Top 3 never let anyone in on it, they just attended the booster club meetings to make sure everything was kept in check. I don't really understand why there needs to be 2 such organizations. Why create division within the unit? Why not just work together?
"Enlisted men are stupid, but very cunning and deceitful and bear considerable watching," 1894 Officers’ Manual |
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Experienced Member |
Promoted from the enlisted ranks, all noncommissioned officers are charged with duties that assist and compliment the commissioned officers. In this regard the noncommissioned officer has legal authority to issue lawful orders that the civilian spouse lacks, no matter who or what rank the military member has that the civilain spouse is married to.
Some NCOs having 5-skill level or 7-Skill are battlefield airmen warriors having great responsibility of chain-of-command authority of leading tactical elements into the hardships and hazards of combat. As much importance and authority as the civilian spouse may believe they have, the civilian spouse holds no military rank or military authority. More importantly the civilian spouse has no required compulsory military duties to perform. I think this answers your question of concerning NCOs and specifically the top 3 NCO ranks contributing nothing more too daily operations and missions by primarily parti****ting in booster clubs and morale activities. In the Air Force it does. For most NCO rank is nothing more than higher grade which is directly connected to getting a a higher monthly income. It is also in many military jobs associated with being the higher skilled technician or specialist with supervisory responsibilities rather than being the lowest command authority (authority to issue lawful orders) level in the combatant chain of command. This message has been edited. Last edited by: johca, |
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Member |
At my last organization they had a "Top Four" because there weren't enough E-7's through E-9's available to be able to effectively accomplish anything. |
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Basic Training |
I think we're talking about different levels of Top-3 orgs.
There are Sq top-3 (or4), and Wing Top-3 There are also middle-2 or "rising 6" orgs within wings. Squadron Top-3s that I've been in did NOT do fund raisers; these folks were also members of the booster club that did it all. The Top-3 were used for "mentorship" within the squadron, and also had "leadership" discussions between the flights and the Sq CC. |
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Experienced Member |
The question-- "Top 3-What does this job/responsibility or whatever it is mean in enlisted terms?”—is referring to what contribution does the Top 3 NCO ranks in the Air Force makes to daily operations and to accomplishing military missions. The Top-3 council and the Top-4 Council has purpose to be a dynamic, proactive, and visible organization having primary objective is to enhance the military professionalism, development, and quality of life for all enlisted personnel. It is just one of the parti****ting opportunities that differ very little from the communal social welfare purpose of the Company Grade Officer Council. Focus on council activities weakens understanding, when placed in charge by commanders, NCOs have the authority to issue lawful orders appropriate for mission accomplishment. Failure to obey lawful orders violates Article 92 of the UCMJ (duty status determines Air Reserve Component authority). It is the NCOs who are in-charge of the routine daily business of enlisted airmen, soldiers, marines, and sailors. The answering of the question involves disclosing how, why, where and when reasons NCOs are considered the backbone of the uniformed armed services. Military units are constituted to do the fighting or directly support the units and assets doing the fighting. The fundamental fighting purpose of the NCO is to provide on-the-spot small tactical element leadership. This directly contributes to the other NCO fundamental purpose of the NCO to ensure the enlisted in the unit are properly trained, equipped and functional fit to perform military duties. This is some of the primary essential ways the NCO has responsibilities and duties that assist and compliment the commissioned officers, specifically the unit commander or mission commander as this is who delegates in-charge authority to the NCO. |
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Experienced Member |
There sort of is, a Airmen’s council has existed on at least one base at one time. There are other similiar types of organizations that may be active on a base such as Air Force Association, Air Force Sergeants Association, and Noncommisioned Officers Asociation. Such group mechanisms exist to give a meaningful way to talk about things in away that should yield some sort of results rather than the problem, deficiency, or impairment festering emotionally until it exaggerates in to being a more disruptive harder to fix or correct problem or concern. Typically such groups have some sort of charter, elected officers and meetings are run using a set of rules for conduct at meetings that allows everyone to be heard and to make decisions without confusion. Introduction to Robert's Rules of Order |
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You can still 'have it all'- just have HALF |
Thanks for the great explanations. I am familiar with Booster Club activities and used to work closely with one and attend some of their meetings. I knew the Shirts and Chiefs had their own networks so that didn't sound right either.
An AF wife attended an event where 'Top 3' was talked about and it sounded like a big deal but she didn't really understand it. What I know to be Top 3 in a flying SQ is completely different than she was describing, so I figured I'd ask you guys. Top 3 in, at least a fighter SQ is defined by the Ops Group in the WG. Top 3 started off as being, by default, the CC, the DO and the senior ADO. That changed over the years to expand to consist of any Ltc or Maj who were graduated flight CCs. Even Capts can sit a Top 3 shift if they are graduated flight CCs IF prior approval is obtained from the OG/CC. Regardless of who the 3 are, at least one of them must be immediately accessible and available to respond during flying operations. Totally different animal. Learn something new every day! |
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Experienced Member |
No Top-3 or Top-4 or even Chiefs Group enlisted organization on any base has ever demanded money from me or any other NCO I know. There is something terribly wrong in your unit. Your description of Top-3 activities and actionswith-in your unit has me hanging my head in shame. |
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