Alright folks, now that I have spent the last three hours playing catch up, I will try to answer some of the issues.

I have read the post that started it all and for the original poster , yeah that is screwed up. He praises you but in the last breath disapproves your request. Now , whether or not he or she is supposed to do that , it sounds like its a feature that covers two retraining programs and cannot differntiate between FTA and NCORP so the feature is still accessible to the commander. Having said that, what I saw from non of the posts is the discussion about MANNING levels. The reason that the commander may not have approved is because manning in his or her unit may be so bad, although they love you in a non sexual manner, they cannot in good conscience cut thier own throat and allow someone to leave when thier manning is so poor. (Disclaimer: I don't know the manning in your unit or AF wide, nor do I care ! LOL )
Understand that commanders must answer to someone over them, when they see retrains on thier number sheets, they get hammered over why are you letting people go ? Why is the Morale in your unit so poor ? if it was good they would not want to leave ! Why are you not marking the blocks for disapproval ? Sir, I'm not supposed to mark those according to the reg. BULLS***, its there , it works, so you must have to mark it ! Are you telling me some knucklehead at MPF made this site with a feature that you are not supposed to use ?

You all catch my drift here , right ? The commander of POL nationwide doesn't care what the commander at BF whereever thinks and doesn't have the time or care to go and research if this is really a mistake or not and in the mean time, DENY DENY DENY. Its the ugly game we have all seen, hated and are forced to swallow over out careers.

Now, having said all of that, lets move onto AFWifey and her comments. (Boooooo, stop throwing tomatoes at the screen LOL ).

It has come to my understanding that some do not like wifey, but the issue is not about like, its about the information she passed. I AM GOING TO USE CAPS BECUSE THIS IS IMPORTANT FOR EVERYONE TO SEE, IF YOU THINK ITS YELLING, YOU NEED TO GO TO YOUR CUPBOARD AND GRAB A BOX OF LIFE AND HAVE A BIG BOWL !!!!! ARE WE READY ???? *****WIFEY WAS WRONG ******

HOLY SMOKES A MOD SAID SHE WAS WRONG !!!!! Now, I know that all want to send her to the Guillotine and chop her head off, but there is more that has to be said first. What needs to be said is that she is the wife of an O-6, who is a commander and she is unique around here. Does she lend lots of third person advice, sure she does. But folks, how many O-6 Commanders do we have here posting on this site and at our fingertips ? All of us NCO's have learned that line of communication causes a break down in the way the info gets to its final resting place. Once info changes hands over and over, by the end , the story has its changes. But more often than not, her information is pretty good, just in this case it was bad. But she meant well, she saw the question, it involved a CC and seeing she had one she decided to ask him. Him , being a CC that had just worked about 3 days straight. Him being the guy that had promised his family that he had not had a real vacation or any sort of decent off time, that he would crank the boat up and go out for a couple of days of what was R and R to him, but for the family some time with the husband and father that is rarely seen due to his workload. Yet if we look down deep, her involvement which we think is way to overboard here, still resinates so strongly through her, that she bugs her Col hubby while he is trying to get the boat ready (and I know boats, so cursing was surely involved). The same Col, that just got home from working just a couple of hours earlier and got what was more than likely a half hearted answer from a Husband who partially had his selective hearing on.
Did Wifey go into, this guy is a FTA ? Who knows, but the point is that she tried and its more than can be said for most.

But I will add that if you folks that are in , don't think a CC can make a call to the Career Field manager and say don't let this guy crosstrain, you are wrong. Sometimes that is not even needed. I had multiple packages for crosstrain denied, not by all the bottom levels to include my CC, but ALWAYS by the Career Field Manager due to AF wide manning levels.

Continue....

The only officer around here that lends advice is Major Wargraham ( I know I spelled your SN wrong, cut me a break , its now 2300). Lets cut wifey a bit of a break, she tried, was wrong and its been beaten to death.

But my next point is the attitude of "spouses should be seen and not heard" sort of mentality. Listen , I am the first to correct someone, I am not the big fuzzy sort of guy. I run the joining the military forums atop this detail of the AF boards. I get guys and gals that will throw thier two cents in and they know nothing. They lend thier "oh my cousin joined and he said" garbage and I correct them and ask them to stop passing bad info. They continued and I warn somemore and explain to them why thier info is bad and what it can do to potential applicants that don't know better than to regard or disregard you information based on information in thier profile. Lets face it folks, I'm a mod for the Joining the Military Forum, I think you can trust my information, but as for the poster with just numbers for a SN and no profile, you would think they might be cautious and seek out other info, but they don't. Hence why its so critical to make sure you information is correct or at least clearly state, "this is what I heard from a recruiter" or "I spoke to a Capt today and they said..", especially if you are not 100% sure that this is the right answer. And lastly , even when you are wrong , as we all have been and will be in the future, own up to it and say so, realize your mistake and press on.

I have a LT.Col medical officer that has never been in recruiting and yet provides valuable information about medical conditions all the time. But from time to time she is wrong and I tell her without fear and she understands her role. Although an expert in the medical field, she is not one in recruiting, thats my job. But in the end, posters that keep posting wrong information after being warned will eventually be stopped by suspension or ban. This is because it causes more work for the VOLUNTEERS of this site to keep correcting these folks with NO real knowledge and they refused to listen.

I don't think Wifey falls into this and this part is a dead issue.

What is not a dead issue is the point about the number of posts, which I do find comical. Especially for all of you that are coming over from that website that I reviewed and see that all your members get RANKS based on the number of thier posts ! Her amount of posts have nothing to do with taking sides, the real matter was the attacks against her. She wasn't even around for 3 days and the posts just kept on coming.

Some of you are correct, some of the other posters and one in particular was fanning the flames, whether he realizes it or not. I will expound on that a bit later.

As for the newbie thread, its more of a guideline for posters and what will get them flamed or possibly suspended later. Its not formal , but some good rules of thumb. We were having a rash of new people , wearing thier newness on thier sleeves and acting all a fool. You know, those girlfriends left at home while boyfriends went off to basic and talked marriage before they left. Those young folks that come to boards and talk like they know it all , but still have a few questions. But those young folks start spouting off about being told one thing from the boyfriend and then get angry when the reality in the answers they get make them angry because they feel as though posters are not being NICE ! Not being nice would be the way I really want to tell them in my own words "Honey, you man left and I have heard your story a 100 times before. 99% of those girls left behind get tossed like last weeks trash and they will never hear or see from thier man again", now to something like that I can understand thinking of me as mean, but deep inside we all know its true most of the time. But before that happens, posters are just telling the young person the reality in a nice way and they just don't get it and turn on the flame machine and get banned. The Newbie thread was an attempt to quell that down and it has stuck, but it is not gospel.

TOS is ! And its left up to the discretion of the mods and for the most part they do a good job. Now I don't know if I am coming off half way decent or not, but the only thing I have beef with is that other LEAD mods are coming to this side of the tracks and cleaning my house and leaving this mess for me to handle. Not one single email, or else most of this may have been avoided. But having said that, don't argue with the mods, we don't get paid, we are 100% volunteers and argueing with us is not tolerated. Like a cop, don't argue with them, argue with the judge. The more you argue with the cops, the more charges you will get.


Cont.....

The site is not Private, its a public site, but it does have rules. We are not against argueing here, heck I love a good fight !!!!! LOL

But doing it in a manner which stays in the guidelines of this site is non-negotionable.

For all the new folks from the other website, it looks pretty cool, might join myself if you will have me. But having said that , things that I saw there, just don't fly here. The four letter bombs, the threats like wanting to slap someone or hitting somone with a brick are labeled as threats here. Not saying myself or military.com is going to do this, but if your site is a public one, threats like that can lead you into hot water with legal issues.

Also, lets use some common sense here. How many of us are married ? Have significant other ? How many are females ? All of this I ask because we are calling someone a Thunder C*nt. If this was your wife, would you want to kick my butt if I said this ? If this was the wife of an O-6 you could see in person, would you say that to her ? If you are a woman, do you appreciate that language even though its not you they were talking about ? If I had the ability to find those that said this, I would and come knock someone out and I would probably bet most husbands would do the same. But we talk about professionalism throughout this post and in this melee, I saw either new people of others that have been here for awhile and are now disgusted at what they have seen and may be gone for good. Alot cited thier reasons for what they say is the mods being unfair and dragging this site down. I say its those that are claiming to be NCO's and using that sort of language in regards to any female. It doesn't bring a bad light to this forum, it brings a bad light to the AF as a whole. If you think that me , a mod is being to tough and yet you make no comment about someone being called a C*nt, then perhaps your priorities are screwed up and you really don't belong here.

And lastly, most of the suspensions are going to stick, there is a few in the heat of the moment that I will reinstate, as I was bonkers when trying to tie all this together. But the one point that I said I was going to come back to was in regards to a poster that I think has crossed the line. BlackMagix, of all the talk of baiting and trapping , you were right along with it. From an elder NCO, here is a phrase you need to learn young Jedi and it goes like this "Don't wrestle with pigs, you will only get dirty".

All the crap of find people on the global and questioning service and prove this and that, had I seen it earlier, I would have stopped you then. As I read and reread your posts it reminded me of " OOOOOOO, I'M TELLING !". Your posts along with others are disruptive and I find you to be a fault for instigating this fight beyond its end. In the future you just need to leave it alone.

As for Duke, what really floors me is that you are a mod for your site , at least thats what it seems to be listed under yor SN. For you to condone your folks to come over and start this war is really a shock. I would think a person in this position would not egg this on, but instead try to squash it. But instead you use your site to post things like " I just went over to thier boards and did this....HEHEHEHE"

Listen, we welcome all to this site, we are all brothers and sisters in the same force. We would love to have you on the forums, but there is rules. Yeah , its pretty uptight versus your forums, but I don't see the need for **** this and SH*t that every other word.

I want to leave you all with my email, I can be reached at Yukondogg2008@yahoo.com

For those that really want to talk further issues on this matter, feel free. If you want to email and tell me to go F myself, then you can save your email and you suspension sticks.

Warning, I will leave this post open for further discussion, just keep it intelligent, peaceful and it will go smoothly, if it turns into a flame fest, I will kill it in a heartbeat.

Respectfully,

Yukondogg, Military.com Air Force Forums Lead Moderator

One last thing, its now 0001 hours , my brain is mush and I am sure there are both grammar and spelling mistakes. If you comment thats fine, but cut me a sprout ! LOL

I too went to the other website. It was simply embarassing to see Air Force members behind the annonymity of the internet acting like that. Utterly disgraceful behaviour. Would you really act like that in front of that person. I highly doubt it. To come in and complain about post counts when their site rewards post counts with an Air Force rank as well as special ribbons for doing something. Hmm, sort of hypocritical. The real shocker was seeing one of our members here dog piling on with the others on their site. Even used the same avatar.

Paint me stupid, but, what's the other site? I'm having a bit of trouble finding the thread that has the address.

PS, I think I said her SN was AFwifey, it should read TheWifey, please make corrections and submit accordingly all.

As for the site, we don't promote other sites here and for anyone that may link this site, its a TOS violation.

Many thanks Yukondogg!

Then, somebody, PM me.

quote:

Originally posted by GeneSchubeck:
Paint me stupid, but, what's the other site? I'm having a bit of trouble finding the thread that has the address.

The "other site" isn't important here. We don't want to join any "site wars". Their site has it's own rules and we have ours. Theirs just seems to be a bit more laxed, although their normal topics pretty much mirror what we do here and have some great information. I've even seen some of their members who joined here help out with good information on other forums here. Deep down regardless of what anyone says we're still USAF brothers and sisters and will continue to work together.

The sad thing is I took the time to look around the site. The fact it is public is amazing. I actually have found three of them that work in same group as me. I am still debating if an inperson meeting might be in order. See if they talk as much BS in person.

Sorry, posted email as Yukondogg, should be Uconndogg2008@yahoo.com

quote:

Originally posted by caninedale:
The sad thing is I took the time to look around the site. The fact it is public is amazing. I actually have found three of them that work in same group as me. I am still debating if an inperson meeting might be in order. See if they talk as much BS in person.

You should. My bet is they would.

Regardless, I want to make the determination for myself. I am an adult, and I don't need someone telling me what is, or isn't important. I didn't say anything about a "site war".

quote:

Originally posted by Weasel_Keeper:

quote:

Originally posted by GeneSchubeck:
Paint me stupid, but, what's the other site? I'm having a bit of trouble finding the thread that has the address.

The "other site" isn't important here. We don't want to join any "site wars". Their site has it's own rules and we have ours. Theirs just seems to be a bit more laxed, although their normal topics pretty much mirror what we do here and have some great information. I've even seen some of their members who joined here help out with good information on other forums here. Deep down regardless of what anyone says we're still USAF brothers and sisters and will continue to work together.

quote:

Originally posted by GeneSchubeck:
Regardless, I want to make the determination for myself. I am an adult, and I don't need someone telling me what is, or isn't important. I didn't say anything about a "site war".

If I could PM you, I would.

Info you seek

If you scroll down towards the bottom of that page, you will probably find what you are looking for.

Hope you don't get in trouble for it, Bro.

quote:

Originally posted by caninedale:
The sad thing is I took the time to look around the site. The fact it is public is amazing. I actually have found three of them that work in same group as me. I am still debating if an inperson meeting might be in order. See if they talk as much BS in person.

We got back in town this afternoon after being in a remote area with no cell or Internet service, started unpacking, and I took a break to check emails and knew something was up. I have just now been able to get my arms around this feeding frenzy.

I'll explain both my and his answer in detail tomorrow.

I hope some of you sad excuses for AF members had your fun at my expense while you knew I was away. One thing's for sure...I wouldn't want to be any of you bandwagoneers after 30 pages of the disgusting CRAP I just read through.

quote:

I hope some of you sad excuses for AF members had your fun at my expense

I thought this was supposed to be over? I guess we'll see how this gets handled.

Good morning folks. I have been a member of mil.com for quite a while now and have been lurking around in the background, enjoying the latest email updates about the various issues that affect our lives as soldiers. I hate it to be this way, but the first post I make is in response to this flame war topic.

I noticed a lot of dissention is about one of the members spreading bad information and when she was called out on it, people were suspended and even banned. These people are our brothers and sisters who were making corrections, even though some were very harsh corrections, but corrections none the less which would have saved our others brothers and sisters the time and trouble of going through the processes if they really knew what to expect.

I have to severly disagree with the OPs comments

quote:

What needs to be said is that she is the wife of an O-6, who is a commander and she is unique around here......If this was the wife of an O-6 you could see in person, would you say that to her ?

I absolutely disagree that a commander's wife is a unique gem of an individual based soley on the fact that she married into the "position". If I were to see her in person I would absolutely call her out if she was indeed wrong on a topic. Look how many people called out our own President and scream for impeachment, yet they aren't punished for their opinions.

I will give you a little bit of background on why I am against letting a spouse off so easily and not holding her accountable when as human beings we should be held accountable for our actions and all of our statements.

I am an Air Force member. My dad is an O5. Many times I have gone with him to functions (pre-enlistment) and have experienced the Officer Wife Rank bullying. Some, not all, of these women believe that they ARE special because they happen to be the wives of people with rank. They throw their opinions around like it was the absolute word of God and the truth no matter who else it may harm. I was at a dinner table for one event with my dad (mom was never really interested in that sort of thing so I went as his escort ) that my dad and some O4-6's were talking about their specialties/degrees. My dad mentioned that I was thinking about joining the Air Force and would be going in within a few months. The O's congratulated me on my career choice and we started talking about career fields and what kind of job I wanted to do. They asked me if I was going to be enlisting or going to ROTC. The O6's wife opened her mouth and started bashing enlisted folks because they were "too-stupid" to get degrees and that I probably wasn't going to be one of those dumb enlisted folks. One of the O's looked at her and said, "That's funny, I was prior enlisted and I'm doing pretty well." My dad looked at her and said, "No, she is going in enlisted cause she wants to actually work for a living and I will support my daughter's decisions." The wife's husband just put his face into his hands, he was so embarassed. She tried to backpeddal and say that she didn't mean it like that but wouldn't I rather be an officer so I could make more money? The civilian contractor who was sitting at our table told her that he was "prior enlisted as well and right now he's making good money with the tax breaks (in this area)." She then said "Well it can't be that much since you're just a civilian." He said "Lady, its 120K good enough." Her mouth dropped open and her husband told her "Honey, shut up." She didn't say much through the rest of the event. Was she wrong to speak out? I do believe so. Were the other people right to put her in her place? I do believe so. Even her husband saw it.

Many times in life wives are put in their place and it should be so even with a simple message forum. Like the ones who expect you to salute them-sorry but I will NOT salute someone who has not earned their own rank. I have seen wives kicked out of clubs for acting up. Who has the power in these situations? The badly behaving O's wife or the Security Forces troop tasked to do his job and uphold the peace and safety of his fellow Airmen? I think perhaps we should not start confusing rank with authority.

I don't condone any of the blatantly violent language, much of that is very uncalled for, however, if someone has to be put back into their place, it should be done and they should move on instead of getting a Moderator involved because they feel that they somehow outrank and are more important than everyone else. We all play a part and all of our parts are equal in that if it was not for each other we would never get the mission done.

I apologise for the long post, but after reading the traffic on this/these topics I really had to say something about it and hopefully, any further posts are going to be much much more lighthearted!