Seems some folks are really starting to over think this stuff.

We've had a lot of stupid/dumb things happen with this program (centralized test, tucking shirts in, etc) but now folks worrying about rank on PT gear so we know who to and who not to salute is way off the ranch.

==========

Leaders want more guidance for PT wear

By Bruce Rolfsen - Staff writer
Posted : Sunday Oct 18, 2009 10:36:22 EDT
In or out?

The debate about whether you should tuck your physical training T-shirt is still going on — and will until the Air Force issues its new PT uniform wear rules.

Major command leaders agreed in June that airmen need “to reflect a more professional image” when they’re in service-issued workout clothes. Four months later, though, the mandates are still in rewrite.

The leaders said the current Air Force instruction addressing uniform wear, AFI 36-2903, leaves too many PT uniform decisions up to airmen: The shirt “may be tucked in or out”; the jacket “may be zipped or unzipped”; and socks must be white, though “any length” is acceptable.

The AFI — to the commanders’ dismay — tells airmen they’re not required to salute more senior service members in their PT uniforms because the outfit has no rank insignia. Some higher-ups want that bit of etiquette restored.

A few commanders haven’t waited for the new rules.

At Spangdahlem Air Base in Germany, base leaders issued new PT wear rules in August.

Now, airmen there must salute when approaching an officer whose rank is shown on his uniform, as well as tuck in their shirts — untucked is OK for training events with the permission of the squadron commander — and zipper their jacket at least half way.

There's ALWAYS room/time/energy for a little more insanity.

This always happens when you start wearing something other than cotton. The chemicals get absorbed into your skin and make you do strange things.

When all is settled, the final question will be the preferred way to tie the shoe strings for conformity.

gag!

Bottom line, yes, it can get dumber. Never ask that question in the air force because they will never cease to amaze you.

Who knows, we may have to
tuck in our shoe laces
have a certain color of shoe
sew air force rank on PT shirts (they have a PT patch so it's not too far fetched)
no headphones on (it's a uniform after all and unless everyone has an MP3 player then it's not uniform)
Reflective belts required to be worn

etc...

There is a billion and one ways to make it dumber...

Ugh, the only constant in the Air Force is change...

It could always be worse, if we want to keep getting that pay check I guess we just roll with it. I'm sure come Jan 10 and the new program alot of folks are going to be rethinking there stay in the force,especially those that are "unfit" It's great seeing the changes that have happen, some good some bad in the past 8 years of being in. If there isnt changes than things become stagnant and people become bored,complacent,etc. It is sad though to see us eventually realigning with Army standards, but I guess that is the nature of the beast with the joint environment's we work in today.

With the weather changing and people moving to the pants, the real question becomes, to blouse or to tuck?

With all the things that are really wrong with the AF....this is probably the stupidest thing to ***** about. You don't want to salute officers? You don't want to display a military image in a military uniform? Get out then...you can wear your clothes however you want. I think this type of change is seriously needed. I see tons of Airman who manage to look like morons in the PTU by sagging their pants or buying XXXXXXXL shirts when they should be wearing a medium. I think this is a positive change for the AF. There are too many new Airman coming in these days who have no sense of discipline in the way they wear the uniform.

quote:

With all the things that are really wrong with the AF....this is probably the stupidest thing to ***** about.

Perhaps so. However, this type of thinking is what leads to all the other things that "...are really wrong with the AF...."

Perhaps if we stopped fixing things that weren't broke maybe folks could tend to things that were.

My point was that there is actually a need for a fix for this problem. As stated in my previous post.

quote:

Originally posted by Six_Foxtrot_Zero:
With all the things that are really wrong with the AF....this is probably the stupidest thing to ***** about. You don't want to salute officers? You don't want to display a military image in a military uniform? Get out then...you can wear your clothes however you want. I think this type of change is seriously needed. I see tons of Airman who manage to look like morons in the PTU by sagging their pants or buying XXXXXXXL shirts when they should be wearing a medium. I think this is a positive change for the AF. There are too many new Airman coming in these days who have no sense of discipline in the way they wear the uniform.

Unfortunatly the new standards dont address the points you make above about the sagging and the large t-shirts. It has always been against the rules. It's up to NCO's to enforce the standard. if you dont think your airman is presenting a professional military image, councel them. If you dont feel they are meeting the standards associated with the dress and appearance AFI's, councel them.

No matter what the standards are people will try and get around them. it's the way things are (just like laws in the civilian world). It's up to the NCO's to enforce the standards.

quote:

My point was that there is actually a need for a fix for this problem.

With a policy signed out by the SECAF (as are all AFIs)? Your points/issues couldn't have been fixed at a lower level?

quote:

Originally posted by 15713302:

quote:

My point was that there is actually a need for a fix for this problem.

With a policy signed out by the SECAF (as are all AFIs)? Your points/issues couldn't have been fixed at a lower level?

Apparantly(sp) not....and that is sad.

quote:

Originally posted by Hobie819:

quote:

Originally posted by Six_Foxtrot_Zero:
With all the things that are really wrong with the AF....this is probably the stupidest thing to ***** about. You don't want to salute officers? You don't want to display a military image in a military uniform? Get out then...you can wear your clothes however you want. I think this type of change is seriously needed. I see tons of Airman who manage to look like morons in the PTU by sagging their pants or buying XXXXXXXL shirts when they should be wearing a medium. I think this is a positive change for the AF. There are too many new Airman coming in these days who have no sense of discipline in the way they wear the uniform.

Unfortunatly the new standards dont address the points you make above about the sagging and the large t-shirts. It has always been against the rules. It's up to NCO's to enforce the standard. if you dont think your airman is presenting a professional military image, councel them. If you dont feel they are meeting the standards associated with the dress and appearance AFI's, councel them.

No matter what the standards are people will try and get around them. it's the way things are (just like laws in the civilian world). It's up to the NCO's to enforce the standards.

Well those were just some examples. I think the new standards do fix problems we do have. Unfortunatley the new standards will not make NCOs do their jobs and hold subbordinates to the regulation...

Maybe it's just that I had my MTI rub off on me a little too much, but I don't see a problem with wearing the uniform how we were taught in basics.

I am fairly fresh out of boot camp, but I wouldn't wear my pt gear untucked, my blues without my garder straps and looking crisp, strings off my uniforms, or anything else.

I like looking good in my uniform.

I'd be happy if they would just make up their minds either way. But no, the AF is considering "new" ideas....again. The AETC/CC has mandated tucked shirts/half zipped jackets/full zipped pants, and my SQ/CC has mandated saluting. I think I'm going to mandate reflective belts, Lackland lasers, and heavily starched and ironed t-shirts to the troops in my section. After all, what kind of leader would I be if I didn't add my special touch?

Please if one of you start suggesting "liquid starched" jock straps, I quit!

There's a few issues here:

- fit and function
-- needs to be address by Uniform Board (uniform right!)

- standards and practical wear
-- leadership issue

Leadership (Schwartz) needs to reel in all the cowboys and determine the practical and rationale for a standard. Is saluting wise? Can all be ID with rank or is this a officer issue of not being saluted.

What's the purpose, PT fitness or making that one in a thousand officer feel good?

with all this constant change and ever increasingly rapid new ideas, we could be heading for a uniform singularity...

quote:

Originally posted by ChefRubio:
Maybe it's just that I had my MTI rub off on me a little too much, but I don't see a problem with wearing the uniform how we were taught in basics.

I am fairly fresh out of boot camp, but I wouldn't wear my pt gear untucked, my blues without my garder straps and looking crisp, strings off my uniforms, or anything else.

I like looking good in my uniform.

I hear ya, but the thing that kills me is that your crisp uni that your wearing(i.e blues,heavy starched BDU or nicely pressed ABU) you wont be running 3 miles in and sweating up a storm. There really isnt anything about the PT clothes that screams professionalism especially after 30 minutes of cardio.

quote:

There really isnt anything about the PT clothes that screams professionalism

Which actually brings up an interesting point.

How exactly does one look professional in PT gear?

If you're doing it right, when you're done, you should look like pounded sh#t. Personnally, I can completely sweat out a set of gym clothes in under 30 minutes.

Somehow we've worked out no salute and no hat areas in our AF. Why do you suppose we've having such a hard time worrying about rank, saluting and god knows what else when it comes to PT time/gear?

If I've sweated out my clothes and still have x miles to run before my workout is done the last thing I want is having to worry about who I do or don't need to salute or have someone bust my b@lls because they don't think by shirt is tucked in properly or by zipper is adjusted right.

This stuff just isn't that hard to figure out.