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Military.com Forums Air Force Discussions It's All About The Flying Basic Flight Engineer (BFE) School|
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Basic Training |
Hey guys, I am currently putting some serious thought into cross training into the FE world again. How is the BFE course now? When I went thru the BFE course at Kirtland for helicopters it was definitely not a walk in the park(that was back in 2001). So I figured it hasn't really changed that much. Is the BFE course a combined fixed and non-fixed wing school now? How do you know what airframe you will be going to after you have finished the course and who makes the decision? How many blocks are there in the course and what is the typical class size?
If I am able to cross train again, I will put forth every effort to succeed this time. A couple of days ago while I was cleaning out my garage, I came across some of my studying materials and books from when I attended BFE down at Kirtland. It definitely brought back some memories. As I was going thru some of the course material, thats when it hit me, I should try to cross train again. I posted a similiar response on another discussion thread as to cross training again in at which to get opinions from other people. I will more than likely give it a shot again once I graduate from school this year. Also, where I am stationed at, the maintenance community isn't really looking promising anymore (i.e. on and off 8+4 hour shifts for several weeks including the weekends). Time for a change. |
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Basic Training |
I was in the first class taught down at Medina Annex, we had some issues being the first class....we were in a "Validation" phase the entire time, it kinda sucked because they were constantly changing the data in the study guides daily. We were taught propulsion for fixed and rotary, weather, TERPS etc...we are also taught TOLD (Takeoff and Landing Data) for 3 airframes.....C-130, HH-60 and CV-22. The class was challenging, but we only had 1 guy fail out (out of 13). It sounds like you stumbled on your old material for a reason, like I said before........Apply!!!!!
Good luck |
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Basic Training |
Hey richards its keck i heard you where here asking questions about becoming and F.E. well if you are sick of hellsworth and want to do a job you enjoy everyday you should cross train already. Im not going to lie this is the best job in the airforce. Yea the school is hard but if you want it bad enough you will pass. All the schools are different for each jet but as long as you put in the time you will do fine. yea we may not work 12 hr shifts but we are gone alot TDY but its alot of fun. just depends on what you really want, if you want to stay in hellsworth working the line everyday getting nothing out of it i say stay but if you want to have one of the best jobs in the airforce where you get the respect you earn i say come on over to the real air force. ops is great! hope to see you soon
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Member |
Dude...put the paperwork in ASAP.
Get out of Mx...if you fail out, you will still have a job in Mx...(likely) BUT...you won't fail. You've been there, and done that. You will probably smoke that school. You won't do the BFE curriculum that used to be at Kirtland...you'll go to Lackand (Medina) and do the Fixed Wing/Helo/CV-22 combined course. It is a beeatch...but it can be done. It isn't taught to a rocket scientist level. I did the same course they teach there, but I did it at Little Rock...we got HAMMERED with C-130 info, and when I got to my airframe specific FIQ course, I realized that I had been REALLY prepped well. We had 2 washbacks in our class in BFE. One was a former TI at Slackland (sorry...that's what we former Army guys call San Antonio...kind of like "relaxin' Jackson" for Fort Jackson, where many of the non combat MOS'es do their Basic Combat Training). Anyway...the TI failed out on academics, and the other washback was a commercial pilot who used to fly with me in the Army in CA. He was Blackhawk crewchief (same as an FE in the Army). He is a commercial pilot by civilian trade, and he flies Falcon Jets and Citations. His A$$ failed out of BFE. It CAN happen. He is in initial qual for the KC-10 at present. His 2nd time at BFE was good to go. No worry about failing. If that cat can smoke it...if the former TI who is ALL ABOUT study and discipline can smoke it... You can roll it up and smoke it too. Puff, Puff...Pass. Drop the papers...get on the flight deck. That being said...it is the hardest school I've EVER attended in my decade of Military service...and I've held 5 Mil. jobs...all with a formal school attached to them. Show up with your game face on...("Show me your War Face...You gotta War Face? !!!!) |
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Basic Training |
Keck, get off the computer and do your TOLD card....LOL!!! Don't wait until 9:30 tonight!!!! Hey, call me on my wife's cell today....the number is almost the same as mine, except the last 4 is 3044. I hate having the early morning sim, except for the fact that I'll be home for good at lunch. |
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Member |
Don't feel too bad...I just got out of the Box here at Little Rock a while ago. My show time is 2200, and I don't leave until 0300. Makes it easy to stoke up the BBQ in the afternoons, but I have to do it without the beer.
There's something just un-American about BBQ without beer. Either that, or stoke up the -Q- at 0330 and wake up everyone in billeting with my drunken guitar playing (have to give that a shot tomorrow...see how it goes...) Of course, if I was going Gucci instead of Herky Bird, I'd pass on the BBQ and wait until I went operational. 4 star hotels tend to have better chow than even I (the master of the grill) can muster up. Seeing as how I'm going to Shadows...I'll keep up the grill-skill...as you can still grill outside a sandy floored tent. (I speak from experience) |
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Member |
That is funny. Maybe they will finally get the Rescue guys engaged a little more in a few months in the AOR. I will PM you and let you know what I mean. Your timing could be perfect it seems.
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Member |
Got the PM...perfect is a relative term. I've had my fill of the kitty litter already...but if I gotta go, at least I know the ropes already (unlike most of my Squadron).
I would be game to bring myself up to speed in a non training environment, though. In the green suit, we always would repeat the mantra "train as you fight". Even better to train again...where you fight. Until then, I won't have a clue if I have my job nailed down (and BOY do I have a ways to go on THAT), or if I am blowing smoke up my own keester on the confidence end of things. Proof is in the pudding. I thought I was a good Infantryman back in the day, but I never deployed as a Grunt, so who'se to really say? BTW...the 0300 grill (Kebabs with bell peppers and onion) went well...chowing down right now. The guitar, however, didn't endear my battle buddy and I to our new neighbors here in billeting. Apparently they think that 0300 is time to keep quiet and sleep...not time to butcher "Over the Hills and Far Away" by the Mighty Led Zeppelin...(okay...butcher is a pretty strong word to use here...I thought it sounded OK). So...we won't be invited over to room 2107 any time soon... Whodathunkit? |
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Basic Training |
Out of the box already? Man, you were a couple weeks behind us at Medina, I guess the Mighty Herc is a quick learning airframe huh? Well the "Gucch" is an tough animal to learn, we've been in the school since the end of Feb and we haven't even started flying yet, we are on sim 7 of 21....a long road ahead. Good luck with the flying training!!! |
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Basic Training |
Hey - I just wanted to brag on my son. He just got mission qualified as a FE on 60s. He was the last group of pipeliners to go into a FE position straight from basic. So to all of you that are currently in school, keep up the hard work and you'll make it through.
Gsmithok |
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Member |
If you think the Gucci Bird is tougher to digest than the Herky Bird...you need to talk to some people with more gray hair than I.
I have been just about ready to quit no less than 5 times in the past month or so...and it took me well over a year to get into this school slot. I am the highest scoring guy in the class, academically, and performance wise...and even I have had to talk myself out of self-eliminating and going back to Sunny CA. My school started on 7 JAN, and I won't be finished and mission qualified back home until early 2009. 7 months at Little Rock, and 5+ months at Kirtland (4 months if the Gods shine upon me and I get to do everything on time...which has not happened yet for any of our guys...more like 6 months at Kirtland). Then I go home to get local qualified. That is 3 months. 1.5 years of training (this number includes EAUC, Fairchild and Pensacola as well). Quick learning my A$$. I'm ready for a weekend off...no manuals...no homework...no airplanes of any kind (at least, none that don't have a tailwheel). I haven't seen my kid since New Years Day...I haven't been to the bar since I graduated BFE...haven't even left the county since BFE. Saturation point is imminently close. However...I hear the -10 has it's own quirky issues, and that it's no piece of cake either. You are involved in enough of the flight environment in that airframe that if you Gucci FE's don't pursue your civilian FAA ratings while crewing on -10's, your flat out nuts. What a headstart you have over other folks... I expect to hear you guys all went out and earned your CFII or ATP before this enlistment is up...the instrument written will be a piece of cake for you. |
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Basic Training |
so yeh....i'm sitting in AFC, formally EAUC, and I think all of us cross trainees are in AETC shock.
today was day two, pretty easy so far, but man AETC sucks. oh well, hopefully it gets better. |
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Basic Training |
LOL, remember that class well, it's was a walk in the park compared to BFE. We were the first BFE class there at Medina, things were out of wack for a while with them "fine tuning" the course. All but one graduated in our class, we all had over 95%....it's doable, just make sure you study and apply yourself....don't party every night like our fallen engineer did. |
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Basic Training |
yeh, AFC is pretty much cake right now.....i'm just ready to get into BFE.
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Member |
EAUC was a walk in the park...I doubt AFC is much tougher.
BFE was tough, but they didn't set you up for failure...they set you up for success...It was up to YOU to figure out how to take the setup they gave and make good grades. I agree full well with mtmccormick...do NOT go hit up the Riverwalk or the clubs during BFE. Maybe on a Friday night, with a 1/2 Saturday recovery period, but your butt had better stay in the books for ALL of Sunday unless you are a rockstar. I missed top grad by 1 test question (0.2%) out of 14 guys, and I can count the number of nights I went out during BFE on 1 hand. Some other guys didn't have the same work ethic, and came in reeking on Monday. They were the re-testers...and the "2nd trip around" cats (washbacks). Don't get me wrong...I drank, BBQ'ed and had plenty of fun, but I kept it close to home, and under control. You ain't gonna make it out of Engineer school if you don't learn that early on. I'm flying now, and I take my Initial Qual checkride on the 22nd (in a few days), and I am SOLID in the books every night (as are ALL my classmates). Class just gets harder, and harder, and harder. More intense as you learn more, because they expect more out of you in the interrogations (I mean, the 1 on 1 instructional periods). You damned well end up memorizing a lot of your -1 manuals...wish I had done that before I started the course. When you get to the BFE stage, try to find someone a few blocks ahead of you, and make friends. You'll get some heads-up intel on what to focus on. In the initial qual and mission qual portions, that isn't all that hard to do, as many students are staggered a few weeks or so between each other...definitely true for the C-130 guys. No problem getting someone to break you off some intel who is senior to you in class. I'm still rock solid #1 academically out of my classmates, but only by a gnats a$$. This is a thinkin' man's AFSC...so get ready to learn you sumthin...(I still love the $hit out of it...don't get me wrong) |
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Basic Training |
Yeah, I'm also #1 in my class at KC-10 IQT........although, it's a 1 on 1 instructor/student curriculim....but one can be happy right? |
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Member |
mtmccormick, if you were #2 in a 1 man class, I'd be worried for you.
We have a lot more guys going through this course...bigger fleet, more bodies needed. It's a production line, basically...every 12 days, fresh bodies arrive for the beatings. After a certain point, we go 1 on 1 here too...same civilian instructor for the sim phase, and then different instructors for the flight line (military). Flying is much more enjoyable than sitting in a classroom...I can tell you that. I was about to throw in the towel back in that classroom...starting to wonder just how much I really wanted the job...when it was DAY, after DAY, after DAY in class...taking tests every other day. It wasn't so tough when I was a young buck (I went to some really long Army schools), but now that I am an older dude with a kid and a real life back home, 2,000 miles away, these 'super-schools' really start to wear you down. If anything goes wrong and my classes get postponed for even a few days, my butt is taking leave and getting on the next jet back home for a few days...I don't care WHAT the airfare is. So for you new guys reading this and thinking about crosstraining into the FE field, I'll say it's a really rewarding job...probably the best enlisted gig you can get...but BE PREPARED for school to be exactly as all of us have described it on these forums posts. It ain't a cake-walk, and it's gonna take forever to get through. Of course, once you are done, I'm sure it won't seem so bad. |
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Basic Training |
I'm sure you miss your kid, but at least you can focus when you are studying. I'm here at McGuire busting my *** in IQT, fortunately my family is here with me, but at the same time it's hard as hell to get my studying in at night with 2 kids running around and a wife that needs her time as well. We have the Flight Safety guys here (civilian, but all retired Air Force) guiding us through the sim phase, we too have the zipper suits taking us through the flying phase. I know the Herc community is hurting for bodies, I have a good friend that just started down there at the Rock the other day, and even one of my old dorm residents (back when I did the Dorm Manager gig) starting there shortly. Good luck to you in your Herc training, I'm sure you'll be home with the lil' one in no time. |
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Member |
Updates requested...how y'all doin?
I just got off a DNIF stretch of 11 days (not of my doing...I assure you), and am tracking that check ride again. Shooting for a Form 8 by the middle of the month, or earlier. Lemme know how goes it for the rest of you. |
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Basic Training |
Q1 yesterday on my checkride, flight line here I come!!!! |
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