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Military.com Forums Air Force Discussions It's All About The Flying switching FE airframes from fixed wing to rotory...|
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New Member |
Hey all,
I was wondering if it's possible for fixed wing flight engineers to switch to different airframes during their career, or do people get stuck on one particular airframe for a long time? I want to apply to become an FE but I want to go rotory wing. I know you can't retrain into the 1a111B afsc now that FE is it's own general afsc. I figure that since I am at Pope, a C-130 base, that I will probably stay on that aircraft. However, I would like to try and switch over to a base that has helicopters sometime after becoming an FE. Does this ever happen to folks? Just trying to get as much info as I can.... Thanks Bon |
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Member |
Short answer is yes, you can move between helo and fixed wing. The fact of the matter is that it is becoming more common these days to see a helo FE go to a fixed wing aircraft. In contrast though we are not seeing that many fixed wing FE's leave the cozy confines of the flight deck. All this said, change is in the wind...in as little as five years, gunners and flight engineers will be in one AFSC. For HH-60 and MH-53 FE's this won't be that big a change, as FE's man a weapon as part of their job on those aircraft. For the rest of the AF FE cadre though is will be something new. |
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Your required to spend 3 years on an airframe before you can switch. Just remember that you'll have to go through all the training again.
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Also remember a huge chunk of helo FE jobs will be going away when the PaveLow retires next year.
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New Member |
And a larger number will be added back in -- whenever they decide on the CSAR-X helicopter. We've got 40(?) MH-53s going to the bone yard and they (plan) to add 141 CSAR-X to replace the 100 HH-60s. |
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New Member |
how set in stone is the joining of gunners and FEs? is that more of a rumor right now, or has it been stated by officials? |
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As they don't even know what aircraft will be the CSAR-X, I wouldn't use it as a basis for trying to crosstrain. He is looking in the next few years for a job. CSAR-X is at least 5-10 years from operational. Not really a factor in his cross training. |
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Wow. The CSAR X still isn't even thought of yet and look at the dates. The dates on these posts are evidence of that.
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New Member |
There is no CSAR-X. Not anymore.
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New Member |
What the F word are they doing about that, these days? It's been a while.
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Mike model -60's..we hope.
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Wow..your "Hoping" for a acft that meets next to NONE of your requirements? Boy aren't you easy to please! LOL |
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It beats NOTHING at all. They are exploring the option as we speak. What are our requirements again now that CSAR-X is dead? |
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Something that can fly up, down, left, right, forward and backward...can carry PJ's...and isn't broke on the ramp when it should be out picking up the IP.
That's good enough for me at this point. We can build on it from there. |
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Ugly rumor is with CSAR-X canx so will ACC rescue. Pentagon isn't happy spending $$$$ to have guys sit alert in HOA. Not many return bangs for the bucks coming to them from the current rescue situation.
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New Member |
I would think the guys on the ground in Afghanistan would beg to differ. We are doing MEDEVAC and helping out.
The first time a fighter tool finds himself under canopy, he will hope for rescue. Where does that leave the HC-130? |
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HC-130 still sitting on the ground in HOA. If any rescue helo thinks it will make it to a crash sight to pick up a down pilot/crew before the firty or so other Army helos flying that day and seeing a bronze star on the ground pick him up you are dreaming. Even more so in Iraq. Rescue airlift is a great thing when we don't have 500 helos in the AOR and they need to cover bad guy land to get the crew. Once the army is on the ground in country, they are just another airlifter.
With Rescue probably losing CSAR-X and letting AFSOC have the first 30 HC/MC-130J instead of splitting them as planned, the writing sure seems on the wall. Why would you give up that many new aircraft and keep your aging fleet? Why would congress allow that to happen if Rescue is such a high priority? |
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New Member |
Interesting....
We have provided a lot of "lift" when the Army could not go or refused to go due to aircraft capabilities. I see us returning to AFSOC and picking up a more SOF mission in addition to providing CSAR alert functions. ACC always takes assets that they do not know what to do with...remember when they took slick C-130's? It will be interesting to see what the future holds...I got five years left before I can pull the handles. |
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And then be relegated tot he miserable life of flying Yaks and BizJets...you poor, poor man. I feel for you...I really do.
Y'all think I'll make it out of Kirtland before they canX my mission that I've spent the last 9,347 months training for? (ok...slight exaggeration, but it feels about that long). |
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New Member |
If the USAF wants to save money, shut Kirtland down. What a jacked up place. In all my time in the AF, I have NEVER seen a more unorganized and mismanaged program as the gunner course. The FE's have it worse. I have heard the -130's are just as bad.
Happiness was Kirtland in the mirror. I like the town and the state, but you can have the base. |
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Oh...I've definitely got some stuff for the critique at the end of all this (hopefully next week or the following one). The instructors are good guys, and really try to make it work, but the system here makes it all but impossible for them to expedite ANYTHING, no matter how altruistic their motives.
And it would be nice to have airplanes that aren't broke for the same shiz-nit night after night after night. I'm starting to think that CND (Can Not Duplicate) in the forms really means "Mx needs to go to bed instead of troubleshoot this issue, but you can go ahead and fly the plane again...no worries" |
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A caveat to my complaining:
To be fair to anyone just coming in the pipeline who is reading these threads...Kirtland is NOT the horrible place I heard about...the place where they are hard on you and try to wash you out. Of all the schools I've been to in both the Army and the Air Force, I will say that the aircrew instructor staff in ALL crew positions here at Kirtland are some of THE MOST helpful guys I've met. They kick butt and go the extra mile to help out the students and to NOT set the students up for failure. That will also go in the critique. There are several guys here I wouldn't mind being deployed with, and for those who have deployed, you know that is a big thumbs up (nothing worse than being stuck downrange with a bunch of doochbags) |
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The problem with the planes IMHO is they never leave. They fly the same lines night after night without a break. The same maintainers work them day in and day out, which you would think is a good thing. The fact they never go TDY leads to complacency. They are in cruise control. They show up from tech school and stay for their career it seems. The "been there done that" attitude is horrible in their maintenance section.
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We just imponded one of the remaining 2 King tails we had left on flyable status. Now there is but 1 on the line...
But at least it isn't trying to kill us every night like 829 has been. 100% loss of comms on a low level with zero illum (3rd time that happened, ICS just gave out completely...no way to get out even on U-1)...and then in a rainstorm with helos on the line the Nav equipment started to go haywire, and the compasses and SNS all did their own thing. 2 days later, my buddy flies it, and gets un-commanded autopilot inputs when the Autopilot is OFF. I suggested less Mx Troops, and more Exorcist types. |
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Do they contract MX? The -60's have it and seemed to do a decent job of giving us good airplanes. Now...having said that, when it would have made sense to get more than 3 helo's up to get some training done...not available. When the AETC commander shows up, they launch the fleet!
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New Member |
From what I understand, CV-22s are waaaaay worse. I have some buddies up there in initial qual. They never fly. I hear MX is the worst up there for all of you guys. Can't say from experience, though.
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New Member |
They need to get those -22's up and running. Don't they know we are in the middle of airshow season!
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New Member |
Dude. I just re-read your post. You couldn't even get out on Uniform 1? That scenario is exactly why you have that radio wired to the battery. WTF?
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I can understand why maint on the CV-22s is slow, they're "new". You can't really know what is going to go wrong them. I know this statement is vague, but i think you guys get my point. |
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I had that comm issue when I flew gunships. It was in the local pattern at Hurlburt. The pilot was going to just do comm out procedures for the approach when I walked on the deck and handed him a survival radio from a ML-4 kit. He forgot we had 20 radios on the plane that could transmit on 243.0 in the seat kits.
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I brought up that same issue...that we had handhelds that could Xmit on guard, but they said it wouldn't get out of the aircraft until we were over the field. Being a former AVO guy, I said "Bullsheeat", but nobody listens to a student.
To Jimmy: It wasnt' the radios, it was the Interphone system, which is also on the Isolated Bus, but without access to the ICS, you can't patch to the U-1 on the Isolated/Battery bus. I want to know if I can patch in a mic somewhere outside of the ICS circuit and get out on U-1 anyway. I knew how to do it on a helo in my Army days...so I'm pretty sure it could be done (illegal as Hell, but if I'm screwed and stuck over the pond, I'm not concerned with AFI's). Control head interfaces to the main radio in the back above the scanner seat, and interfaces through ICS. Where in that path can I patch in a headset, and is there a spot where it is impedance matched, or does that matching happen in the ICS box? I know there is nowhere to "plug in", but any FE worth his salt should be able to MacGyver it in an actual emergency by stripping the plug cables. Things that keep me up at night pondering... |
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Or, if it's only an ICS failure, and everything else is working, can a single headset be patched in to get into SCNS? Then, all this is a moot point.
I asked the Mx kids, but, as usual, they looked at me with a deer caught in the headlights look, and couldn't think outside the box. Not their fault, I suppose...they aren't encouraged to think outside the box in that world (as I recall) |
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Military.com Forums Air Force Discussions It's All About The Flying switching FE airframes from fixed wing to rotory...
