So I was BS'ing with some guys at work and got to talking about how the Soldiers coming in from Basic don't seem to be as good as they used to be. That led us to thinking that maybe there should be some kind of Training at Brigade or Division level where new soldiers and Re-class soldiers come in and get more indepth training before they report to their unit. Some kind of halfway between OSUT and Unit School. thoughts?

Personally I think Soldiers aught to start training with their units as soon as possible. Thats whe you learn the real stuff.

I don't know much, but I think that is what the British do and seems like a good idea. Only problem is how do you plan to conduct it? Are you going to do it OSUT part 2 or are you going to assign soldiers from the battalion or brigade to it as trainers and use a small student to teacher ratio (for example, perhaps assigning the SPC (P) to it and have them train a few (3-5) soldiers at a time and use it to simontaneously train the new guys and the SPC (P) to be a NCO).

I just dont see a point to it. Why would you delay a Soldier beginning to train with his unit? Advanced training, no matter what it is, is not as valuable as training with the people you will go to war with.

I'm with Run on this one, get those troops to their unit and let the NCOs shape them into Soldiers, No use letting some REMF at Division jack those cherries up any more then they already are.

quote:

Originally posted by GeraldM:
I don't know much, but I think that is what the British do and seems like a good idea. Only problem is how do you plan to conduct it? Are you going to do it OSUT part 2 or are you going to assign soldiers from the battalion or brigade to it as trainers and use a small student to teacher ratio (for example, perhaps assigning the SPC (P) to it and have them train a few (3-5) soldiers at a time and use it to simontaneously train the new guys and the SPC (P) to be a NCO).

this seems to be a good way of going at it. But I think so far the reasoning is get the joe to their unit.

AIT is only meant to be to skill level 1 or 2 I thought. So in that respect it is just a baseline. Above that level units vary in what they emphasize is important or what tasks are important, IMO.

So I would vote for training with the unit as soon as possible. The other members of the platoon that they are assigned to are supposed to bring them up to speed.

That is the way I lean too, my one and only problem with joe when they come to me is it seems like I have more issues to deal with from them and less time to train them because of this. don't get me wrong, my job is to take care of joe, but it is freakin ridiculous these days how many problems these kids have nowa days. All it takes is 1 dirtbag to suck all my time up and leave no time to train the soliders worth a f*** all because it is so hard to get that one dirtbag kicked out.

Perhaps once the current conflict is over it can be trialed, perhaps making it two or three weeks of advanced training/improving existing skills and see how those soldiers fare compared to those that go straight to the unit.

There isn't progress unless we try new ideas, even if they don't work.

so when can we get rid of the idea of 2LT's?

quote:

That is the way I lean too, my one and only problem with joe when they come to me is it seems like I have more issues to deal with from them and less time to train them because of this. don't get me wrong, my job is to take care of joe, but it is freakin ridiculous these days how many problems these kids have nowa days. All it takes is 1 dirtbag to suck all my time up and leave no time to train the soliders worth a f*** all because it is so hard to get that one dirtbag kicked out.

OK, I see what your saying. I agree on that 6-9 months to chapter when I was in. Ridiculous.

quote:

Originally posted by gruntpain1775:
so when can we get rid of the idea of 2LT's?

In about 3 years and 8 months, make that 4 years just in case...

gerald, unless you get hard stripes you just won't be cool man......lol

Damnit...

Well I guess I'm ****ed, but eh I'll live being uncool...

maybe one day one of your squad leaders will let you touch his stripes and you might luck out and have some of the badazz rub off on you.

teach them the basic basics at... basic, and let them get to their unit asap. we need to learn the unit SOP because those are the ones we will be following when we get deployed.

quote:

Originally posted by ErichG2:
AIT is only meant to be to skill level 1 or 2 I thought. So in that respect it is just a baseline. Above that level units vary in what they emphasize is important or what tasks are important, IMO.

So I would vote for training with the unit as soon as possible. The other members of the platoon that they are assigned to are supposed to bring them up to speed.

The only problem is that sometimes are soldier fresh out of AIT goes straight to a unit in Iraq or Afghanistan. In many of our past wars, soldiers went straight from training to combat.

I understand why the Army trains the way it does. Marines love to talk about how long their basic training is. The Army can't always run it that way because it is much larger and because it is much more diverse. An Infantry soldier can be sent to a mech, stryker, light, air assault, Ranger, or airborne unit. That unit might focus on fighting (in peacetime) in Korea, the desert, jungles, mountains, etc. Different Infantry units have different weapons, vehicles, equipment, numbers of soldiers, and SOP's. So it is pointless to spend too long training soldiers for generic roles; as we all know most Army training takes place at the unit level.

But, I think basic and at least Infantry AIT could be longer. I thought OSUT was partly a joke because we did not practice with weapons and advanced tactics as much as we probably should have. One day on the SAW, 249, Grenade, and other ranges is not enough. Soldiers should have to qualify on ALL basic Infantry weapons, not just grenades and rifles. I've heard that in the last few years Basic and OSUT have changed for the better. When I was there we didn't touch M-2's or MK-19's. That's bad.

In short, I think that at least for the Infantry the training should be extended by 2-4 weeks. More weapons training and qualification. Work on getting more soldiers qualified Sharpshooter and Expert. Work on more MOUT and basic tactics and battle drills. And for God's sake let's teach soldiers a little bit of history so they have some pride in who they are and what they do.

quote:

Originally posted by gruntpain1775:
That is the way I lean too, my one and only problem with joe when they come to me is it seems like I have more issues to deal with from them and less time to train them because of this. don't get me wrong, my job is to take care of joe, but it is freakin ridiculous these days how many problems these kids have nowa days. All it takes is 1 dirtbag to suck all my time up and leave no time to train the soliders worth a f*** all because it is so hard to get that one dirtbag kicked out.

Thats why its so important to have good team leaders.

I think that infantry soldiers ought to get the basic stuff in OSUT. Then at the unit be aggressive about sending them to schools. Not Airborne and Air Assault (useless if you ask me). But Squad Designated Marksman, Small Arms Master Gunner, Javelin, Combatives 1-4, US Army Marksmanship Unit CQM course, Ranger, Pathfinder, Combat Lifesaver, EMT, Anti Terrorism Evasive Driver, FBCB2 Class, and maybe even 25U MOSQ for a select few.... just for starters. This little outline teaches a guy how to operate.

I took EMT on the Army's dime. Great course but I wish it were more oriented toward the battlefield. I think we should get more battlefield specific training in EMT rather than just going to the civilian course and having the Army pay for it.