Funny thing. I was sitting around having a grand ol drunken time with some friends of my fiance. We were just bullshltting and talking about this and that. As happens, since they knew I had been in the Army and had been to Iraq, the questions started. I don't mind talking about some things, and people asking me non retarded questions doesnt bother me at all.

However there are some things I came to understand that perhaps I didnt understand before. Beings friends of my fiance they knew I am deploying to Kosovo soon, and am seeking a deployment to Afghanistan, or a second trip to Iraq after I get back. They asked me if I loved my fiance, and if I cared about her well being. Of course, I wouldnt be marrying the woman if I didnt. Then why are you leaving her by herself again? Isnt she the most important thing in your life?

So I go into my rehearsed speal that I always give when people wonder why folks would want to go on deployments. Love of the Soldiers, love of country, duty, blah blah blah. They honestly couldnt understand these things. For these people love of a human being of the opposite sex was the most important thing in the world. And by their reasoning aught to override all other things.

I have always knew that being a Soldier, and especially being an Infantryman takes a different perspective from most people. I dont think I ever quite understood though how little ordinary folks really understand us. Its not that they dont care, or that they have no sense of duty whatsoever, its just that they really cantunderstand why we do the things we do.

That is in essence why I can never get out of the military. These are my people.

quote:

That is in essence why I can never get out of the military. These are my people.

Indeed. I have a great Army friend who lives in my home state. We talk about this a lot, because there are a lot of things we can't stand about the Army. But we both know that we couldn't be full time civilians.

Civilians have no idea of what we do or why. The military today is relatively small, the civilian populace is large and there is a huge gap. That's why I have a small group of close friends and don't talk much about the Army with people I don't know well.

Neither do I. You probably wouldnt even know I was in the Army if you came to my home and didnt know me.

Run, I wouldn't have posted this in the Infantry forum for I am a "cherry". However, I grouping us "ordinary people" in the "can't understand" category is not so in my case at least.

I, for one, do understand that you are bonded in each others mettle. Your love for your fellow soldiers forged on the battlefield. A bond strengthened during times of extreme mental, physical, and emotional stresses that ordinary people, like myself, could not possibly grasp without having gone through them.

Your love for your fiance is in a seperate category from this. The bond there cannot possibly compete, nor should it, with the bond between your brothers.

So to say "ordinary people" don't understand is a mistake in my book. THOSE ordinary people with whom you had that conversation just haven't thought about the details of it.

I'm not ranting at you, just my opinion.

Your wrong wannabe. You THINK you can understand. And one day you probably will. Your actually joining the Army. Your not the same as the rest of those people. But your not the same as us... Yet. Just the fact that you are wanting to be a Soldier makes you different in a sense. Even if you dont fully know what being a Soldier is yet.

quote:

Originally posted by runfuret:
Your wrong wannabe. You THINK you can understand. And one day you probably will. Your actually joining the Army. Your not the same as the rest of those people. But your not the same as us... Yet. Just the fact that you are wanting to be a Soldier makes you different in a sense. Even if you dont fully know what being a Soldier is yet.

I see your point...Meanwhile.....I'll just hang around in limbo till after BCT

I think the 'yearning to Soldier' is passed to us that accept the challenge, by people in our lives that have served.

A few do serve for economic reasons and because they seek adventure. Not anything wrong with that, but I think even those realize the spirit of the Brotherhod.

It seems Patriotism is no longer taught to the youth today. The concept of service and honor is surely missing from many souls that take up a desk in our schools. And parents don't help when they have never learned the concept either.

I think thats right. My parents were never in the military but my grandfather was. He was always a person I greatly respect and admire. Much of the reason I joined (though not the only reason) was because he had been in.

quote:

Originally posted by runfuret:
I think thats right. My parents were never in the military but my grandfather was. He was always a person I greatly respect and admire. Much of the reason I joined (though not the only reason) was because he had been in.

He handed you the torch and I would think he was very proud of you for grabbing it.

quote:

Originally posted by runfuret:
My parents were never in the military but my grandfather was.....

Cue the Twilight Zone music...I have a similar story. None of my direct relatives were in the military, but I was always literally consumed with it, especially the Civil War. Imagine my astonishment when, much later in life after I had already retired from the Army, I discovered my g-g-grandfather - Private, Company K, 31st Alabama Infantry. (Note the Latin phrase under my name).

And yes I do believe it is passed on - if not in the DNA then certainly in the spirit, and in my case going to my son currently on active duty in the USAF. I hope we are holding up the tradition as our forefather would have wanted.

Times change and opinions fluxuate with these sorts of things believe. For instance in our grandparent's time it was common place for many Americans to serve in the military, wether in war time or not. It was just something that many young men did. The average joe didnt stay in past 1 enlistmen. That was my grandfather. His children grew up during the Vietnam war when many people started to avoid military service so my parent's generation for the most part did not serve. And now we have an all volunteer military so the situations are once again very different. Its interesting.

I'm in the exact same boat; my parents weren't in the military but my Grandfather was. He was actually in the Army before WWII, after having tried to enlist in all the other services. He took part in some very interesting things and we still have his old rucksack. After he died by Grandmother gave me his folded flag and discharge papers. It was pretty neat. I've always been obsessed with the military as well, for me it was as natural as breathing.

Inevitable is a word I might use.

Yea, my parents never served in the military either. One of my grandfathers served in WW2 with the Polish Army/ later forced to join the Red Army, and my other grandfather served in the U.S. Army during the Korean War.

I've been a "civilian" since Dec 06, and I completely agree with you guys on how civilians act. I rarely bring my military experince up among civilians, and when I do, they look at you like your nuts for having served. We really are a "distinct" group of people. Thats why I'm looking into the guard.

My son wanted to serve right after 9/11 it was his choice which we were very proud to support.

Is coming home from Iraq/Kuwait [ 1st Tour ] 2BCT 3D ID "Spartans" in a few weeks.

I never served and I have regrets at times that I didn't.

My Father was in the Army as a Radio man and was Stationed in Germany, my Uncle was also in the Army.

My Grandfather was in WW1 in the Cavalry.

I can't understand nor do I expect I ever will, even though I'm his Father, I will never be a close as those whom he served next to in Combat.

I don't ask him questions about his experiences or things associated with the Army, they are deeply personal.

He has been through Hell.

I don't think it's impossible for a civilian to understand the experience of an infantryman. Civil War veterans loved THE RED BADGE OF COURAGE and felt it described their experience like it was written by a veteran, and the author, Stephen Crane, wasn't in the war. It's just that for the average veteran, it's no easy feat to describe their experience to someone who has none of their points of reference. People ask me 'You were in Afghanistan. What was it like?" and seem disappointed when I just say "Hot. Dangerous." Otherwise, how do I take a year of my life lived more fully than all the ones before it, spent in an alien land and culture on the other side of the planet from my home and life, and compress it into a few paragraphs for someone who has no idea of where I'm coming from or what I did? Maybe I should just write a book, then hand a copy to friends when they ask me that question.

quote:

Originally posted by BigPapi11B:
I don't ask him questions about his experiences or things associated with the Army, they are deeply personal.

He has been through Hell.

We have a online VA Officer (DaveBarker) should you want to talk to about how to handle this, IMO. Here is a link to his profile.

http://profile.military.com/member/view.do?memberId=2821837

I am not an expert on the subject but he has good info. He has two PTSD Forums as well located here that he is Moderator of:

http://forums.military.com/eve/forums/a/cfrm/f/247197221

I can tell you as a peacetime veteran I did not like my parents NOT asking about the Army. It bothered me. Maybe a combat veteran is different you would have to ask the OIF vets.

I have no clue how you handle combat as a parent but you should show interest in his garrison life, IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by simonferrer:
I don't think it's impossible for a civilian to understand the experience of an infantryman. Civil War veterans loved THE RED BADGE OF COURAGE and felt it described their experience like it was written by a veteran, and the author, Stephen Crane, wasn't in the war. It's just that for the average veteran, it's no easy feat to describe their experience to someone who has none of their points of reference. People ask me 'You were in Afghanistan. What was it like?" and seem disappointed when I just say "Hot. Dangerous." Otherwise, how do I take a year of my life lived more fully than all the ones before it, spent in an alien land and culture on the other side of the planet from my home and life, and compress it into a few paragraphs for someone who has no idea of where I'm coming from or what I did? Maybe I should just write a book, then hand a copy to friends when they ask me that question.

Im not sure writting good believable characters is the same as understanding though. I think it shows a lot of capacity for empathy, but not necessarily the same frame of mind.

quote:

Originally posted by simonferrer:
I don't think it's impossible for a civilian to understand the experience of an infantryman. Civil War veterans loved THE RED BADGE OF COURAGE and felt it described their experience like it was written by a veteran, and the author, Stephen Crane, wasn't in the war. It's just that for the average veteran, it's no easy feat to describe their experience to someone who has none of their points of reference. People ask me 'You were in Afghanistan. What was it like?" and seem disappointed when I just say "Hot. Dangerous." Otherwise, how do I take a year of my life lived more fully than all the ones before it, spent in an alien land and culture on the other side of the planet from my home and life, and compress it into a few paragraphs for someone who has no idea of where I'm coming from or what I did? Maybe I should just write a book, then hand a copy to friends when they ask me that question.

Thats non-military friends and casual acquaintances. What did you talk over with your parents?

Just curious is all.

I know this is not the same thing but somewhat similar to the returning home experience.

I saw my Nephew get pissed off after being 3-4 months in OSUT come back and get peppered with questions from relatives.

Eventually he just clamed up and gave high level answers or none at all. I remember that experience as well after OSUT returning home.

Eventually you get tired of answering so many questions in such a short timeframe......it should not be interepreted as you don't want to talk about it though.....more like Q&A fatique in a short compression of time. Family and friends that have never been through the basic training experience are curious though.

The thing that PO'd me is that I would say something and they would recoil in horror and say "Thats dangerous....I can't believe they did that". It's comments like that last one where you start to get the impression your wasting your time and the frame of reference is different.

Sorry I had to use OSUT that was my only returning home experience I had. After ETS I went into the workforce then college, not around the homestead that much as after OSUT.

Erich, thats very much the case with many Soldiers I think. It gives the troopers the impression that these people just dont get it anyway so they stop talking about it altogether.