I ran accross something the other day about authorized Army badges, and found one called a Ram's Head Device, that according to the site was only authorized for certain units, and I believe ARNG states.

I found the link, no picture...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramshead_Device

Looked around on the Internet, but never was able to find a picture of what it looked like or exactly who wore it.

Just curious, any one have more info?

SGT US.ARMY, Infantry Sniper, Iraq Combat Veteran

This message has been edited. Last edited by: FloridaScoutSniper,

quote:

Originally posted by FloridaScoutSniper:
I ran accross something the other day about authorized Army badges, and found one called a Ram's Head Device, that according to the site was only authorized for certain units, and I believe ARNG states.

I found the link, no picture...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramshead_Device

Looked around on the Internet, but never was able to find a picture of what it looked like or exactly who wore it.

Just curious, any one have more info?

SGT US.ARMY, Infantry Sniper, Iraq Combat Veteran

It's is awarded to graduates of the Vermont ANG "Mountain warfare" course.

The Ramshead itself is rather elusive, no one has been able to find or post a picture of it.

Here is a thread that you might be interested in:
Ramshead Device thread

Some of the links posted in there don't work, but there are some that do and have pics.

Also, at the bottom of the wikipedia article, under the "See also" header is a link to an image of the award.

The Vermont Army National Guard runs the Mountain Warfare Course, but all soldiers (Active, Guard and Reserve) can attend it. If you graduate both the Summer and Winter phases of the course, you are awarded the Ram's head device. Currently, it's still not authorized for wear on the uniform (DA and NGB keep bickering back and forth on it because the school is National Guard-run, but DA approved).

I remember when I was army b4 I cross decked to the Corps same sort of thing was going on with the JOTC patch the one from Panama. I saw some people wearing it and nobody said a word, other bases/places they said no you can't wear it have no idea why or what the regs were I never wore it after we went but I always wondered what the hell was up with that. anyone know?

Like her's an example say you go Marine corps from the Army and you went to Air Assault school right? Well you can't wear that on your Marine Corps uniform but if you went to Jump School you could wear that something about there has to be a comparable school/award. Now here's the really weird part you get say an AAM right, well you wear that on your Marine Corps uniform not the NAM because they are corresponding awards, make sense? know what I mean?

I have my Ram's Head and have the old BDU style patch fitted with a Velcro backing, Velcroed to the underside of my collar on my ACUs. I served in the 3/172nd Infantry (Mountain) for 12 years and heard the 'What badge is that? It will/will never get approved' debate constantly.

I have my Ram's Head badge as well. I attended both summer and winter courses in the early 90's when I was with the 10th Mountain. One of the better schools without a doubt. That and the food was outstanding!

Badge was not allowed and if it is I see DOD making it look more "military" instead of something that you pickup at the local zoo gift shop.

quote:

Originally posted by garbent:

Badge was not allowed and if it is I see DOD making it look more "military" instead of something that you pickup at the local zoo gift shop.

Numerous discussions on that topic.

The most common was to duplicate the mean-looking Dodge Ram icon, but that would be copyright infringement.

Then there's the guys who say, 'They should just award a Mountain tab the same way they award an SF, a Ranger, and now a Sapper tab.' This usually sparks a very huge, heated debate. SF and Ranger are the cream of the crop. Sapper is more of a skill, as is mountaineering. The former is about 10 weeks in length. The latter, Mountain school, is 28 days to complete the basic summer and winter POI. And another 20 days to complete lead climber, summer and winter (ten days apiece).

Nah. Let 10th Mountain keep the tab to honor the actions of the original WWII 10th and let the old 3/172nd Infantry (Mountain) battalion keep the tab as keepers of the flame. Going to Mountain school isn't the same commitment as completing SFAS and "Q" course or the Ranger course. Enough about tabs.

In my research, a 2nd Division combat team, the 38th Regiment, was known as a mountain and winter warfare specialty unit. I found a website maintained by a former officer in that unit who'd be in his 80s or 90s by now. The website had an image of a badge that was promised to these men as recognition for being mountain warfare experts.

Interestingly, the badge was a facsimile of a CIB at first glance. In lieu of a blue enamel shield, there were a pair of horizontal skis. Instead of being superimposed on a wreath, a coil of rope lay behind it. Emblazoned on the top ski was the title '38th US Rangers'. Maybe the term was used more loosely back then. They never received their badge, I learned, after e-mailing the webmaster.

A modern US Army badge usually consists of a wreath to signify something, stars, and other things (like wings found in airborne, air assault, pathfinder, and HALO, but I wouldn't associate wings with mountaineering). Plenty of symbolism around to make it cool looking, like rope coils, ice axes, skis, ski poles, Rams, throw an M16 or a bayonet in there maybe.

Anything's better than the Edelweiss flower power badge that the Germans and Austrians continue to wear.

Posters are correct, the school is in Vermont and run by the Vermont National Guard. Many of the instructors are National Guard SF. SF and Rangers regularly attend the course, along with Special Ops soldiers from other countries. The badge is currently pending authorization but is allowed to be worn by a few select National Guard units from Vermont that are specialized in Mountain Warfare. The school has been cut from two phases to one.

I heard that the school has consolidated into one phase. I think what stopped the Army from awarding the Ram's Head as a TRADOC badge was the fact that the school required completion of two two-week courses, summer and winter. Considering a Regular Army's training schedule and deployment tempo, a soldier would be lucky to get one phase at one point in his enlistment, let alone two.

This way, troops can go to the course, pass, and get the badge. One shot deal, just what the Army wants.

In the past 20 or so years, I'd say more Guard soldiers have been able to get Ram's Heads than Regular Army soldiers. The 3/172nd Infantry (Mountain), my old unit, guaranteed Mountain Warfare School to members. I did my summer phase in the summer of 2000 and the winter phase in February of 2001. Some guys I know did a winter phase one year and maybe summer phase two, three years later. When we went to Iraq in 2005, well over 50 percent of my unit had Ram's Heads.

I think 10th Mountain should take advantage of the consolidated Mountain Warfare School. Jericho, Vermont isn't that far from Watertown, New York. True, the 10th constantly deploys, but I think key leaders, like platoon leaders, platoon sergeants, and squad leaders should be Echo Qualified as Military Mountaineers and get that Ram's Head. It's a good school.

I tried for the ram's head. Completed summer phase but couldn't get back for winter thanks to funding. And another poster was absolutely right.......food was great, although I had the ****'s for a few days while my stomach adjusted to pork everything.