Leaving Sat the 21st for 21 day AT at Shelby. We'll head back there in SEP when we MOB. I'm sure the weather is great this time of year. My first couple of days I've got to put my team together for my new battle roster job as NCOIC of the Bn Cmmdr's PSD.

quote:

Originally posted by XAbnInf:
Leaving Sat the 21st for 21 day AT at Shelby. We'll head back there in SEP when we MOB. I'm sure the weather is great this time of year. My first couple of days I've got to put my team together for my new battle roster job as NCOIC of the Bn Cmmdr's PSD.

Well, Jackson, MS is only a 6 hour drive East from Dallas.

There is just nothing major in MS, South of Jackson until you hit the coast. I can see why they have a training area there.

Nothing really in Hattiesburg, but if youre broke there is a club or two. Gulfport and Biloxi less than an hour, both have a bit of gambling. New Orleans is 2 to 3 hours away.

I just left Camp Shelby on the 20th, I'm in 1-112. I thought the entire 56th was down there at the same time, who are you with?

Honestly, I thought the training and the ranges were a bit disappointing. The M4 qual range is great, and the MOUT/room clearing was pretty good, but that't about it.

We spent 3 days in the field practicing dismounts, bounds, and room clears, and it was very very bad. 3 days, 8 iterations per squad. 2 day, 1 night. We'd dismount, then bound as teams over an open field while our Stryker just sat there, then we'd arbitrarily clear two rooms (each team), then lay down and make noise while the SAW fired. After the first two times, you pretty much learned all you could.

After 11 days on ranges, we had 8 more days of classroom work, which was also pretty shoddy.

Too bad we have to go down there again.

Oh, we also had 14 heat casualties the first day on the ranger, 2 were evaced by helo. The weather is nasty, routinely over 115 with humidity. When you add the body armor with sideplates and inserts, you're looking at something like 130.

i am a mgs platoon sergeant with 4th bde 2 id. i am scheduled to come down to camp shelby to assist and talk with you mgs crews during the gunnery phase. i am looking forward to meeting both the tankers and grunts. i have a lot of lessons learned that will really help both

You are just going to love your MOB training at Shelby. That place is so F'f up it made the Hurricane Katrina relief effort appear very well orchestrated.

I hate to tell ya, but your training will probably be third rate and barely reach the 10 level for the most part. Get your NCOs in gear now to train yourselves.

Our cadre (all but maybe three or four instructors overall) were for the most part uneducated, incompetent, unmotivated, inexperienced, arrogant, condescending and just flat out unprofessional. They need to disband the organization and start from scratch.

The whole MOB training experience was a joke. Even the privates who didnt even know any better were like, "WTF is up with this place? Basic training was higher speed than this?"

Anyway- get ready to do it all yourself. Not that that is a problem, but they will promise you the world when you get there and deliver absolutley nothing or at least very little your will be appreciative of.

DISCLAIMER- Obviously things could have changed since late'06, but knowing the Army it is either the same or even worse.

Hopefully, they have fixed the situation there.

Good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by DiabloSix:
You are just going to love your MOB training at Shelby. That place is so F'f up it made the Hurricane Katrina relief effort appear very well orchestrated.

I hate to tell ya, but your training will probably be third rate and barely reach the 10 level for the most part. Get your NCOs in gear now to train yourselves.

Our cadre (all but maybe three or four instructors overall) were for the most part uneducated, incompetent, unmotivated, inexperienced, arrogant, condescending and just flat out unprofessional. They need to disband the organization and start from scratch.

The whole MOB training experience was a joke. Even the privates who didnt even know any better were like, "WTF is up with this place? Basic training was higher speed than this?"

Anyway- get ready to do it all yourself. Not that that is a problem, but they will promise you the world when you get there and deliver absolutley nothing or at least very little your will be appreciative of.

DISCLAIMER- Obviously things could have changed since late'06, but knowing the Army it is either the same or even worse.

Hopefully, they have fixed the situation there.

Good luck!

well i have know some weak training but that a platoon sergeants job to create training for his super troops and get his soldiers minds right. hopefully when i get there i can assist them as best as i can.

MGScommander14,

"well i have know some weak training but that a platoon sergeants job to create training for his super troops and get his soldiers minds right."

I agree 100% in regards to PSG taking care of business. That is what we did and it worked very well. problem was we had to participate in their training, un "F" it and re-train virtually everything. ALLLLL on out own time after going through their lanes.

Shouldnt be something we have to do except for brushing up and refining some issues. I recall my days on AC and our plt alwys did some after hours stuff, but we never had to undo everything we learned and retrain it. The group Shelby had was unbelievable.

The trainers they had at the time were almost all MOB'd reservists who had either never been to combat (some had) and / or not even working in their specific branch. Instructors fought with each other in front of my troops, yelled and screamed at my troops for stuff they didnt do and so on. I never thought as an LT I would ever lock up an E-7 in front of any Joes if ever and I had to twice while there. One of them was even pulled off the lane for being unprofessional / incompetent. They thought I was one crazy LT, but 15 yrs as an NCO and former 11B I wasnt letting some retard be an A$$ to my guys. Anyway... I never got called on the carpet for it

I read your profile-looks as if they are shipping in AD guys on TDY or something like that to run lanes or whatever. That would be a refreshing change. We couldnt get competent help half the time and like I mentioned earlier- most training was ridiculous.

Well have fun and hopefully they will turn you guys loose at Shelby to help out any way poss. Anything would be better than what they were doing.

quote:

Originally posted by DiabloSix:
MGScommander14,

"well i have know some weak training but that a platoon sergeants job to create training for his super troops and get his soldiers minds right."

I agree 100% in regards to PSG taking care of business. That is what we did and it worked very well. problem was we had to participate in their training, un "F" it and re-train virtually everything. ALLLLL on out own time after going through their lanes.

Shouldnt be something we have to do except for brushing up and refining some issues. I recall my days on AC and our plt alwys did some after hours stuff, but we never had to undo everything we learned and retrain it. The group Shelby had was unbelievable.

The trainers they had at the time were almost all MOB'd reservists who had either never been to combat (some had) and / or not even working in their specific branch. Instructors fought with each other in front of my troops, yelled and screamed at my troops for stuff they didnt do and so on. I never thought as an LT I would ever lock up an E-7 in front of any Joes if ever and I had to twice while there. One of them was even pulled off the lane for being unprofessional / incompetent. They thought I was one crazy LT, but 15 yrs as an NCO and former 11B I wasnt letting some retard be an A$$ to my guys. Anyway... I never got called on the carpet for it

I read your profile-looks as if they are shipping in AD guys on TDY or something like that to run lanes or whatever. That would be a refreshing change. We couldnt get competent help half the time and like I mentioned earlier- most training was ridiculous.

Well have fun and hopefully they will turn you guys loose at Shelby to help out any way poss. Anything would be better than what they were doing.

i agree lanes can be the least realistic training. as a mgs platoon sergeant i took my crews and scheduled my own traning on contingencies that i thought could occur. grant it it was mostly armor related but luckily i trained on some dismount actions in the event we had to dismount and sure enough an ied took out all eight tires on my mgs. i will not be running any lanes but i will be workiing with your mgs crews, lt's, and commanders.

First time checking in since getting back....

Wow. Basically we conducted 1st Army "check the box" training - which allegedly we won't have to do again when we mob, but I'll believe that when I see it. Our tempo was pretty nuts the first two weeks averaging 14-18 hour training days which was pretty demanding for a bunch of Guardsman to jump right into especially given the weather. Overall our guys kept a positive attitude and trooped along checking their boxes and staying in their lanes.

As for the training... If you could keep in mind that it was "check the box" requirements, it was ok. The cadre were pretty pitiful however. I **** you not when I tell you many had a hard time speaking in an understandable manner. The overwhelming majority were not combat arms, and if they were they weren't infantry. Some of the live fires were pretty decent for basic level stuff. I was actually pleasantly surprised with the UO training. As a civilian SWAT instructor I was expecting to have lots of heartburn but the cadre crew at UO did a decent job of presenting a basic level intro to CQB. You have to keep in mind it was only meant to be a foundation and the section/platoon level leadership from your unit has to build your TTP's/SOP's from there.

MGS - some of our training was from our TSBn brothers and that was obviously different from the Shleby crew. But even there, we found some inconsistencies in what the OC's wanted/expected from us. There were also conflicts with what TSBn wanted to do what Shelby would allow - obviously not TSBn's fault.

Spizot - I'm in 1-111th. All of the battalions rotated through at different times. As for the heat casulaties - we had some, but I feel no sympathy for them. Drink water and eat, if your a heat casualty it's nobody's fault but your own.

We also experienced some problems because Shelby had never handled Strykers before and they were totally lost as to our doctrine, let alone physical needs for Stryker training.

I think what ****ed me off most was getting "Theatre Specific Instruction" from OC's who had never deployed!! Nuts. We also suffered through a few classes on convoy ops and similar missions that we won't be tasked with - we're going to be land owners. I understand 1st Army puts forth a big master pre-mob training plan but I wish it was tailored a little better for specific units. Having female wrenches tell a bunch of 11B's about Iraq just seemed wrong ...

i think i am going to push my tdy date up and attempt to unscrew some of this MGS training issues. i seriously hope that the senior nco's in this unit are thinking outside the box and conducting traing beneficial to the platoons

MGS - All three infantry bn's and the RSTA are already done at Shelby...The BSB is there now. Are you talking about going down for our MOB?

yes i am being briefed that your MGS crews will be shooting in september so i am going down to shelby to assist and to have a mandatory meeting with all commanders to brief them on how to use the MGS and dismounts together. the concept that we developed and implemented will increase the dismounts safety about 75%. i am trying to get commanders to not be afraid of that 105mm and to develope the MGS crews to combat effective......i hope

quote:

Originally posted by XAbnInf:
First time checking in since getting back....

Wow. Basically we conducted 1st Army "check the box" training - which allegedly we won't have to do again when we mob, but I'll believe that when I see it. Our tempo was pretty nuts the first two weeks averaging 14-18 hour training days which was pretty demanding for a bunch of Guardsman to jump right into especially given the weather. Overall our guys kept a positive attitude and trooped along checking their boxes and staying in their lanes.

As for the training... If you could keep in mind that it was "check the box" requirements, it was ok. The cadre were pretty pitiful however. I **** you not when I tell you many had a hard time speaking in an understandable manner. The overwhelming majority were not combat arms, and if they were they weren't infantry. Some of the live fires were pretty decent for basic level stuff. I was actually pleasantly surprised with the UO training. As a civilian SWAT instructor I was expecting to have lots of heartburn but the cadre crew at UO did a decent job of presenting a basic level intro to CQB. You have to keep in mind it was only meant to be a foundation and the section/platoon level leadership from your unit has to build your TTP's/SOP's from there.

MGS - some of our training was from our TSBn brothers and that was obviously different from the Shleby crew. But even there, we found some inconsistencies in what the OC's wanted/expected from us. There were also conflicts with what TSBn wanted to do what Shelby would allow - obviously not TSBn's fault.

Spizot - I'm in 1-111th. All of the battalions rotated through at different times. As for the heat casulaties - we had some, but I feel no sympathy for them. Drink water and eat, if your a heat casualty it's nobody's fault but your own.

We also experienced some problems because Shelby had never handled Strykers before and they were totally lost as to our doctrine, let alone physical needs for Stryker training.

I think what ****ed me off most was getting "Theatre Specific Instruction" from OC's who had never deployed!! Nuts. We also suffered through a few classes on convoy ops and similar missions that we won't be tasked with - we're going to be land owners. I understand 1st Army puts forth a big master pre-mob training plan but I wish it was tailored a little better for specific units. Having female wrenches tell a bunch of 11B's about Iraq just seemed wrong ...

About the heat casualties... no one was prepared for that. It happened on the first day out on the qualifying range. Our leadership and our range cadre were pretty much forcing us to stay on the range from 0700 - until you were done qualifying with little to no time to rest. For many of the guys, they fell out before lunch chow was even a thought. We weren't acclimated to the heat, and it just hit guys when they were out qualifying. They were just zeroing for the most part, and the next thing you know, bam, they're face first on the ground.

Normally I would agree with you about not feeling bad for them, but in this case I do.

Also, this forced 1st Army and our Bn to rethink the tempo of training. Once they saw how running us non stop all day in that heat would do, they gave us time after every training event to take our gear off, sit in the shade, eat some food and drink some water.

Camp Shelby.....

Where to Begin, hmmmm....

OK, If I ever get orders to go there again , I seriously will consider taking a Ballpeen hammer to my knees first.

I attended the 1st Army O/C-T academy there in March, to call it a clusterf_ck would be giving that base way too much credit for Organization.

We had Instructors that ran the gamut, from Professional (too Damned few) to Outright Imbeciles.

My Det. arrived on the specified day at Hattiesburg to find no Liason at the airport. The got our arrival wrong by a day. A call through to the school finally got us several Vans after about a 3 hour wait. Inprocessing was very Laid back affair, and on the school bus we went to FOB Blue Diamond, MS.

The first week was all classroom- Death By Powerpoint read in monotone manner by several NCO's who probably have "Goober" as a Given Name. Ben Stein could keep your attention moreso than these guy's. I could count on one hand the number of Professional Non-Coms instructing us that week.

One toothless(literally, no front Upper teeth at all) wonder regaled us with his stories of having been an USMC Captain, US Army Captain, and SSG. in Iraq as a "Sniper"

Did I mention his smile looked like hell, his Indian name was "Flosses with Rebar" guy was a Joke.

2 MSG's, and a SSG named Hambleton were thorough, squared away, Mentors. The SARG team there is Incredible. The SARG team chief looks like Bull from Night Court and knows Weapons like few others I have ever met. His classes were spot on valuable, His AI's patient, As some of the others had never handled M2HB's before.

We recieved Lanes training on TCP from some ancient duds though, for the life of me I couldnt figure out what a Spice Grip was, until they deployed the Spike Strip, D'oh!

Other Lanes included:
FOB Defence/ECP operations
MOUT
Patrolling
Mounted Combat Patrol

They were OK overall, very Basic in Nature. Mainly run to give the student O/C's something to notice for the AAR's that were graded.

The Small Group Leaders the 2nd week were fantastic, all Combat Vets, all Combat Arms

Oh Yeah, the after graduation festivities were running like hell to the shower tent to change into Civvies before the Buses left for the Airport.

The Original Idea of the FOB was Theater Immersion (which it wasnt) and I considered it a Joke as Most of the other O/C's (AD, USAR, ARNG) had Multiple tours of duty in Iraq, Afghanistan. No Place on the FOB to run PT and you couldnt leave the FOB except on Lanes.

Oh, and did I mention they found some Poor G.I. who had been dead a Year in one of the lanes? Still had a M4 next to the skeleton. Great search Job there 1st Army.

Final Analysis:

Shelby Needs to get it's ****e together quickly, As I've seen better Mob Training done at Drum, Dix, Smith, Hood, Sill than there.

Line Doggie - I'm with ya - I was trying to be polite and left out some of my observations...but they are certainly consistent with yours.

It was still active crime scene (where they found the skeleton) when I was down there.

seems i will be going to shelby for a week to....shall we say groom some of the leadership. i can not wait to hit the commanders with the cold hard facts of the mgs and dismount operations. no punches will be pulled. sorry to hear most of your training is not going so well

mgs - when you gonna be there? We're supposed to arrive on 23 SEP.

Shelby was an all around crappy expirience. I feel bad that they are sending PA to train there again after what a bunch of BS it was for the 05 deployment. It was all POG trainers and for awhile we were not even allowed to leave post. We had to carry our weapon every where but we were not allowed to carry it into the PX. I ran into some AF MITT team guys who were AD but did a train up there before taking over their mission in Iraq and they hated it as much as I did.