She's an 88M at Ft. Campbell who talks of getting chaptered out because she "hates her platoon" and is emotionally upset and angry all the time, misses home (and the boyfriend she left), oh yea, and doesn't want to deploy to Afghanistan this January (not that I blame her for not wanting to deploy, but she signed up knowing this). Mind you, she...WE all fought like hell to help get her IN the army, and now she wants out. I'm very upset about her wanting to break her contract and the commitment she made. At 20 years old, it's time that she learn not to quit when the going gets tough. Fact is, I can't control her adult decisions. I could sure use a few words of advice if there is any to give on this topic. Thanks...

First off this is an Infantry forum and this has nothing to do with the Infantry.

But your new and upset so no biggie.

For your daughter to want to get chaptered because she misses her home and boyfriend. Is Dumb. We all missed home and our loved ones, The reason we serve is to protect them and our way of life. Even if it means sacrifice of our own.

Remind your daughter that the decision to be chaptered out will reflect on her the REST of her LIFE.

If she does what she signed up for she'll reap the benefits.


You said yourself you can't make her decisions for her and I know you're concerned.

All you can do is offer advice and hope that it sinks in.


Good Luck

quote:

Originally posted by 14851202:
She's an 88M at Ft. Campbell who talks of getting chaptered out because she "hates her platoon" and is emotionally upset and angry all the time, misses home (and the boyfriend she left), oh yea, and doesn't want to deploy to Afghanistan this January (not that I blame her for not wanting to deploy, but she signed up knowing this). Mind you, she...WE all fought like hell to help get her IN the army, and now she wants out. I'm very upset about her wanting to break her contract and the commitment she made. At 20 years old, it's time that she learn not to quit when the going gets tough. Fact is, I can't control her adult decisions. I could sure use a few words of advice if there is any to give on this topic. Thanks...

Gosh, I was just at Ft. Campbell about a month ago for Week of Eagles, just visiting though.

Your like the fifth or sixth Parent with a problem like this in the last year or two. I think the last one was from the UK orginially. Maybe if she is still around reading posts you two can compare notes. Don't think this is just your kid or it is abnormal or indicative of a lack of responsibility. It's probably more a normal adjustment process to Military life then you realize.

I suspect this is just homesickness which is normal the first year of a Army enlistment. Especially at this age. So answer these questions please:

1. How long has she been enlisted?

2. Is this her first assigned unit and if the answer is yes.....how long has she been there?

3. Has she approached her Chain of Command at all about this problem or wanting to get Chaptered?

So answer the above three questions please. Also remember she is still serving and is only talking about breaking her contract. She is not living in your home after having gone AWOL.....that says something.

First of all I don't think that there will be any repurcussions if she leaves . When I was her age people asked about draft status so a truthful answer was called for . Today it is a non issue . I was told whan I went in to NOT judge the Army by the first 6 months . My first 6 months was "full". Basic , AIT and then Jump School . After I joined my unit and "settled in" things were different . As far as deployment , that would be a big plus . On the front lines or being behind the lines sharpening tent pegs it shows a committment was completed . She will have the GI Bill so she can do something she wants . Hating her platoon is petty and missing her boyfriend is juvenile. Perhaps and only PERHAPS she is truly afraid of deployment . On that note she had better go home as she might be a problem to others over there . Consider it as she has not as yet found her "niche" and should look elsewhere .

Is she really sure that Mr. Special is really all that special.
I will almost guarantee he is probably running around on her.
She won't find a job with the benefits she has right now.

To airdiablo6: I can easily repost elsewhere on the site...it's confusing with all the headings. Tell me where, I'll repost. Thanks.

ErichG2, thanks for your response...here are some answers

She enlisted Dec. 2008. She loved BCT and AIT, and saw the army as her life career and having finally found where she belonged.

She was very psyched when she left for Ft. Campbell, her first assigned unit. She got there May 28 and likes her MOS. She incurred a hip injury of sorts, but is not allowed access to medical help because of continual field exercises. Med appointments are cancelled on her, or missed. She's in pain, and they don't seem to care. How do they deploy someone who's already injured? So, we're talking a med chapter out.

Combine her hip pain with issues with her platoon. (Missing family and BF is very secondary; she said if she could transfer to a new platoon or base, she would happily continue to serve). There's a lot of drinking and drugs by those in her platoon--neither of which she abuses, and she's fed up. Of course she needs to learn how to constructively deal with the BS (we all have BS in our lives) but how can they refuse her medical help with her hip?

She has talked with her Platoon Sargent about chaptering, but not to the CO (I think).

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ValCT,

quote:

Originally posted by ValCT:
To airdiablo6: I can easily repost elsewhere on the site...it's confusing with all the headings. Tell me where, I'll repost. Thanks.

ErichG2, thanks for your response...here are some answers

She enlisted Dec. 2008. She loved BCT and AIT, and saw the army as her life career and having finally found where she belonged.

She was very psyched when she left for Ft. Campbell, her first assigned unit. She got there May 28 and likes her MOS. She incurred a hip injury of sorts, but is not allowed access to medical help because of continual field exercises. Med appointments are cancelled on her, or missed. She's in pain, and they don't seem to care. How do they deploy someone who's already injured? So, we're talking a med chapter out.

Combine her hip pain with issues with her platoon. (Missing family and BF is very secondary; she said if she could transfer to a new platoon or base, she would happily continue to serve). There's a lot of drinking and drugs by those in her platoon--neither of which she abuses, and she's fed up. Of course she needs to learn how to constructively deal with the BS (we all have BS in our lives) but how can they refuse her medical help with her hip?

She has talked with her Platoon Sargent about chaptering, but not to the CO (I think).

ValCT,

Sir, having just left command, I have some mixed emotions regarding your daughter's situation. I know that alot gets lost in the translation between what is actually going on, and what Soldier's tell their parents... so, what I am reading may not be the ground truth, but here are some things to consider.

First, there is a huge difference between Basic/AIT and life in a combat unit. Basic and AIT are all fun and games by comparison. Since she arrived at Campbell, I am sure that she has come to realize that this "war thing" is real. Very REAL. She has likely been told stories by those who were on the last deployment and those stories (true or embellished) may have effected her desire to serve.

Now, my guess is, as an 88M she is either in the Brigade Support Battalion (BSB), or more likely, in one of the Forward Support Companies (FSC) that is actually within an Infantry Battalion or Cavalry Squadron. If she's in an FSC, she will be expected to toughen up, be physically fit, exhibit professionalism... basically, she will be expected to grow up and grow up quick.

Next, actual medical appointments cannot be canceled by anyone but the Soldier or the Clinic. When the Clinic does it, they reschedule and typically, they call the Soldier to inform them of the change. If a Soldier misses a scheduled appointment, typically the unit Commander is notified and is generally not happy about it. Soldiers are admonished NOT to schedule appointments when the unit is going to the field without consulting with their chain of command first.

Now, prior to going to the Clinic, she is probably required to go on Sick Call with her Battalion PA. That's where things can get a bit grey... If her supervisors (and the PA) think she is gold bricking... well... they will likely "discourage" her from going on sick call, especially if she has been on Sick Call several times in the past... more especially when she goes on Sick Call right before field exercises. If they see a pattern like that, it raises questions and they will perceive her as: untough, a shammer (someone just trying to get out of work), someone who needs to grow up, etc. If she is genuinely hurt, the PA should be representing for her.

Having Chaptered many Soldiers over the last year, I can tell you that the process CAN be quick (it's set up to be quick), but seldom is. Moreover, a medical chapter requires a Medical Evaluation Board (MEB) and approval will require a no-****e, well defined, diagnosed, and documented medical problem. "My hip still hurts after I bruised it" probably won't cut it. Typically, the Battalion PA will put her on what we call a "Profile" for a few days or even up to a week so she can heal. The Profile will excuse her from doing PT and potentially from going to the field. Being on continuous profile is not good, especially if she is missing field exercises. (see the perceptions above)

Unless she is seriously injured, she will deploy. If her injury makes her temporarily non-deployable, they may place her on Rear Detachment until she heals and then deploy her. If she is permanently non-deployable, then the MEB comes into play. Bottom line: if you can't deploy, you're likely on your way out of the Army.

As a unit gets ready to deploy, patience with wayward, uncommitted Soldiers will grow short. If she is injured, but motivated and committed, any chain of command would bend over backwards to help her (and hold her in high regard for toughing it out). If she is not really that injured and continues to show poor performance, they will seek to Chapter her. There is just no time left to screw around. Bear in mind that there is the potential for disciplinary action along with it. i.e. reduction in rank, loss of pay, restriction to the Company area, and extra duty after normal work hours (nature of work determined by the 1SG or potentially the CSM, but its most likely to be something manual laborish) until she departs.

You may wish to get in contact with her chain of command to find out what is really going on. (this could be a leadership issue, or an issue with your daughter, or a little of both) Contacting her chain would not be uncommon. In my unit, some commanders wrote letters to parents informing them of their son's arrival, and we often called parents when they were misbehaving. It may sound absurd, but if the Soldier was worth salvaging, it typically worked. If she is in an FSC, I'd recommend talking to the Commander via phone or email. If he or she is worth a darn, you should get some answers.

Finally, if your daughter sticks it out, I highly recommend that you get involved with her unit's Family Readiness Group (FRG). Getting into that loop will keep you informed of what the unit is doing, and can link you in with other parents, wives, etc. The commander or your daughter can give you contact information.

Hope this helps.

Respectfully,

SSM
Captain, Infantry

Thanks, CPT_SSM. I just got off the phone with my daughter and have more details.

She injured her hip in BCT after falling down a flight of stairs, landing on her hip/back. She ignored the injury and pushed through because she didn't want to be seen as a complainer. No problems in AIT with her hip since PT (running) wasn't a part of their daily training at Ft. Leonard Wood.

Now at Ft. Campbell in the Brigade Support Battalion (BSB), daily PT, which starts a 4am, the hip pain really kicked in. Her platoon works until 7pm.

In June, she was put "on profile" for her hip (no running, rough marching, sit-ups, wearing full gear). A hip x-ray in August showed no fracture. Two bone scan appointments were canceled due to field exercises. Her platoon sergeant forbids physical therapy or med appointments during training weeks, and field training is very frequent these days. She's had physical therapy only twice since she's been there. Tomorrow, she heads back to the hospital to reschedule a bone scan appointment. She has been asked to cancel her scheduled med appointments or has been told to no-show at least 5-6 times so far. She's feeling angry that "they just don't give a sh*t about her."

I agree that a lot probably gets "lost in the translation" between what is actually going on, and what I'm being told. Yes, she is hearing war stories of those who have been "blown up" and of course it has had its effect on her desire to deploy. Like many, she's scared. I found out that this January, she goes to Louisiana to for a month long field training exercise (JRTC), but is set to deploy in May.

Since I'm new at all the military jargon and chain of command, who should I contact within her chain of command? I'm glad to hear you say that contacting her chain would not be uncommon. I don't want to come off like some over-reacting Mother. Instead I am trying to do what I can to help her fulfill her commitment. I would surely hope she was worth salvaging.

quote:

Originally posted by ValCT:

She enlisted Dec. 2008. She loved BCT and AIT, and saw the army as her life career and having finally found where she belonged.

She was very psyched when she left for Ft. Campbell, her first assigned unit. She got there May 28 and likes her MOS. She incurred a hip injury of sorts, but is not allowed access to medical help because of continual field exercises. Med appointments are cancelled on her, or missed. She's in pain, and they don't seem to care. How do they deploy someone who's already injured? So, we're talking a med chapter out.

Combine her hip pain with issues with her platoon. (Missing family and BF is very secondary; she said if she could transfer to a new platoon or base, she would happily continue to serve). There's a lot of drinking and drugs by those in her platoon--neither of which she abuses, and she's fed up. Of course she needs to learn how to constructively deal with the BS (we all have BS in our lives) but how can they refuse her medical help with her hip?

She has talked with her Platoon Sargent about chaptering, but not to the CO (I think).

Defer to CPT_SSM on most of this because he is serving now.

However, drug and alchol abuse is common in the Enlisted ranks of the Army even during President Reagans reign, can't stamp that out completely, probably worse with the wars running.

If she just got to her unit in May 2008 give her more time, in the other cases that came up prior to yours this was a first unit assignment type thing. What CPT_SSM says is correct, things are tougher with the first unit, in the area of PT, training, and punishment when you don't absorb the training. So with it being the first unit she is still learning if it is just month #5. Informing her Chain of Command is positive, IMO because that allows them to monitor the situation and watch to make sure she is not harrassed.

Had this offline conversation with one of the Army Mods who ETS' in November, he had problems adjusting to Active Duty. I had problems my first year. Not uncommon. So while you should monitor the situation, don't lie awake nights worrying about it.

Dealing with the druggies, boozers, etc. I can tell you from being stationed at the 101st to a Parent this sounds terrible but the 101st is different. The Drug and Booze chapter cases in the 101st are trustworthy in a lot of cases (not all cases), some of them will watch out for your daughters safety and are pretty decent during the Duty Day. It's after the Duty Day where they are irritating. She has to learn how to deal with them. If it is really bad they will grant her wish to move to a new Platoon but I can tell you from experience no Platoon in the Army is free of this. If I were her I would stay put and try to deal with them and wait for the Chapter process to work in their respective cases. She will slowly gain seniority that way as the Chapter attrition process works......just a suggestion. I'm not sure how that works in todays Army with looming deployments but back in the day it was like CPT_SSM said. 6-8 months to Chapter someone from a Infantry unit. They make an exception and speed it up if the person is viewed as a danger to themselves or those around them.

On the Medical appointment. It's a hard read there and I agree with CPT_SSM. Very rare for someone to cancel one of those. What happened at Ft. Campbell when I was there in the 1980's is the 1SG would walk down the sick call line and ask what was the reason and he would pull folks out of the line if he felt they were faking. A lot of the 19-22 year olds fake illnesses because they know they can get away with it sometimes and it gets them out of duty. Unfortunately, it means those with real medical concerns sometimes have to run the gauntlet of scruitiny (this is where calling her 1SG would help set your mind at ease....if your concerned here).

My 1SG yanked me out of a Deployment with my unit to Honduras after he saw me limping in pain and I mentioned my leg was infected. He first thought I was faking but then called the PA, overheard that conversation and I was two rooms down. He was screaming at the PA on the phone for not writing the profile to be clear enough. Anyhow, he waited until the very last minute to yank me off the deployment, my platoon was boarding the C141 (which I kind of thought was cool at the time because I got to see how the whole deal worked). I was restricted to my barracks room for 2 weeks bedrest, had to take anti-biotic and painkiller....and checked in on by the rear detachment CQ to see if my conditioned worsened.

So medically speaking the Army is pretty careful if you have a legitimate condition NOT to make it worse.

quote:

Originally posted by ValCT:
Thanks, CPT_SSM. I just got off the phone with my daughter and have more details.

She injured her hip in BCT after falling down a flight of stairs, landing on her hip/back. She ignored the injury and pushed through because she didn't want to be seen as a complainer. No problems in AIT with her hip since PT (running) wasn't a part of their daily training at Ft. Leonard Wood.

Now at Ft. Campbell in the Brigade Support Battalion (BSB), daily PT, which starts a 4am, the hip pain really kicked in. Her platoon works until 7pm.

In June, she was put "on profile" for her hip (no running, rough marching, sit-ups, wearing full gear). A hip x-ray in August showed no fracture. Two bone scan appointments were canceled due to field exercises. Her platoon sergeant forbids physical therapy or med appointments during training weeks, and field training is very frequent these days. She's had physical therapy only twice since she's been there. Tomorrow, she heads back to the hospital to reschedule a bone scan appointment. She has been asked to cancel her scheduled med appointments or has been told to no-show at least 5-6 times so far. She's feeling angry that "they just don't give a sh*t about her."

I agree that a lot probably gets "lost in the translation" between what is actually going on, and what I'm being told. Yes, she is hearing war stories of those who have been "blown up" and of course it has had its effect on her desire to deploy. Like many, she's scared. I found out that this January, she goes to Louisiana to for a month long field training exercise (JRTC), but is set to deploy in May.

Since I'm new at all the military jargon and chain of command, who should I contact within her chain of command? I'm glad to hear you say that contacting her chain would not be uncommon. I don't want to come off like some over-reacting Mother. Instead I am trying to do what I can to help her fulfill her commitment. I would surely hope she was worth salvaging.

Contact her Company 1SG. Ft. Campbell should have the phone book online via their website.

Nobody should be telling her to cancel her medical appointments for something legit, so you need to get to the bottom of that business by calling the 1SG. My guess, if it is happening is her Section SGT and he isn't doing it with permission OR the medical issue is not deemed legit. Can't tell you about 88M but with Infantry Companies there is usually a Medic on duty in the Company area (usually with some EMT training).....in addition to the local clinic. So, if she talks to him and gets him on her side....another option.

A call to the 1SG would tell you whats happening there. Typically, they are pretty honest with Parents because they all know what happens when a Parent gets angry (lol).

Wow, I took AIT at FLW and we ran every frikken day.

Don't let these Infantry guys run you off. 88M's add class to this thread. They just hate to admit it.

If I was her, I would try to get moved to a differant Company. Tell her to try the 372nd. They run the DAEG missions. Very little field time when I was there.

Oh yea, remind her, if she gets out, she can kiss any GI Bill benefits goodbye! Sounds like she had quite a bit of growing up to do still.

She does NOT want me to talk to her 1SG (she nearly flipped on the phone when I mentioned it to her). So, I'm in a holding pattern until tomorrow when she goes to Nuclear Medicine again to schedule another appointment. Found out it was the Brigade Surgeon who put her on profile. He was angry that her chain makes her cancel med appointments whenever there is a field duty conflict. They are in the field a lot.

She needs to go to her 1Sg on the "Open Door Policy" if her PSG is refusing to let her seek medical attention. her PSG will not be very happy with her, but if she is for real, this is her first option.

quote:

Originally posted by ValCT:
She does NOT want me to talk to her 1SG (she nearly flipped on the phone when I mentioned it to her). So, I'm in a holding pattern until tomorrow when she goes to Nuclear Medicine again to schedule another appointment. Found out it was the Brigade Surgeon who put her on profile. He was angry that her chain makes her cancel med appointments whenever there is a field duty conflict. They are in the field a lot.

Use BlueFlameCoupe's advice if you talk to her again or she calls back.

What you posted in this post tells me a LOT. They are about to do a CAT Scan on the hip. "Surgeon" in Army terms means Major or above usually. So holding pattern is good for now, see what they find out.

I really appreciate everyone's input, all the way around. FYI, she didn't want to speak to the 1SG and call attention to herself. "He doesn't know what's going on with the soldiers in our platoon... unless they're in trouble, or getting chaptered out. I'd rather see him because I'm getting promoted." Now that she knows that I'm involved, maybe it will make a difference.

She needs to see her 1SG anyways. If that Doctor makes a call to the Battalion CoC, chit will be rolling onto more than her Plt Sgt. She needs to stand up for herself instead of calling it quites.

I agree that she needs ot see her 1SG as sson as possible. If she is not being allowed to make her medical appointments, her 1SG and Commander need to become involved. They can make sure she gets the medical attention she needs, so she can continue to serve effectively.

If she also chooses to bring up the issues with her platoon sergeant and the drugs in the unit, thay can fix that as well.

quote:

Originally posted by ValCT:
FYI, she didn't want to speak to the 1SG and call attention to herself. "He doesn't know what's going on with the soldiers in our platoon... unless they're in trouble, or getting chaptered out. I'd rather see him because I'm getting promoted."

Like the other guys said, the 1SG wants to know if things like this are going on in his company. That's why a chain of command is there.

If her PSG is interfering with medical treatment she needs to be an effective Soldier, she should talk with her 1SG. He (or she)'d rather hear it from your daughter than from the doctor.

I will defer to CPT SSM- not only is he serving as a CDR, but he has his head screwed on right. As retired NCO I have to ass to the comments- PSG's do not cancell Theraphy or Dr Appt's- not if they want to stay in the Army long. They may encourage the Trooper to cancel them, but can't force the isue. Times will be tough, pace will be fast, and one thought of as a shirker when prepping or training up for a deploymant noramlly gets the short end of the stick. A good PSG discuss any personnel problem with the 1SG, who is not only the PSG administrative Boss, but also his mentor. In turn it is the duty of the 1SG to keep his finger on the pulse of the unit and keep the unit Cdr informed of glitches, problem etc that effect the unit. Even when I was acting as 1SG, I demanded updates from the PSG on personnel troubles and problems and woe be to any PSG if one of our troops came to me under the "Open Door"Policy with a problem and I found that the PSG had been ignoring or stone walling the troop! Somewhere it sound like there is a disconnect between your daughter and the enlisted chain of command- bottom line she needs to talk with and get both the PSG & the 1SG invovled and on the same sheet of music- so she gets the health care she needs in order to function as a member of the unit!.

I have to agree with with most of the advice above. If she is really hurting and not Profile Ranger then her 1SG would definetly want to know. A 1SG's and Commanders job is the welfare of the Soldiers. They both serve as the command team and if something wrong is going on they will want to fix it now and not later after the damage is done. 1SG's are not monsters although we can act like that when Joe /Jane step on it.