My unit just posted change 2. I had to remember to turn the generators back on during the thru-flight start. They have always been on in the past and am not yet conditioned to turning them off during the shutdown and back on again.

quote:

Originally posted by Hawk166:
What did you think of formation flight in the 60? You are well along in your training. How much longer do you have at Rucker?

Flying straight and level in staggered was fine, I got the hang of that after a a little while at the controls. Landing in the LZ in staggered formation was tricky but then landing trail on the runway at the airport was pretty difficult, I was not comfortable with that at all.

I have about 2 weeks of BCS left, 3-4 weeks of Nights, 3 weeks of SERE and 3 weeks of BOLC 3B then I'm out of here. Seems like just yesterday when I was on this board trying to get selected for WOFT.

quote:

Originally posted by Hawk166:
My unit just posted change 2. I had to remember to turn the generators back on during the thru-flight start. They have always been on in the past and am not yet conditioned to turning them off during the shutdown and back on again.

Anyone know why we have to turn the generators off now?

I was told it was to increase the service life of the generators. By turning them off first the GCUs don't have to put the component through the changeover from mains to the APU generator. I have no reference for that, just what I heard.

I have read that lots of our chapter 5 limits are from service life issues vs actual structural or part limits.

quote:

Originally posted by yalepilot:
Anyone know why we have to turn the generators off now?

I don't have the system in any of the aircraft I fly, but according to some of the guys on Hawkdriver's forum, it is most likely due to a new MWO. MWO being AHRS (attitude heading reference system) and FOGS (fiber optic gyro system--replaces five of your gyros with two). If your aircraft has the above (know by the nose compartment and supposedly some digital cards -vertical or horizontal I'm not sure). This goes along with a new chapter 8 note about pedal movement when going from mains to APU.

Of course I'm in Alaska and we are pretty much at the bottom of the totem pole for pubs...I'll see (and post) an Army issue change 2 sometime this summer I suppose.

Anybody in FSXXI have a definite answer on posting change 2 yet? Those of us on hold have heard both.

I'm in BCS and we are using Change 2. It's mostly just AHRS which doesn't apply to us. The only noticeable changes that apply that I can think of are turning the generators on and off during startup/shutdown and ENG IGNITION SWITCH(ES) - OFF was changed to ENG IGNITION SWITCH - OFF for EMER ENG SHUTDOWN. Still looking for that second air source heart start switch though.

What is the emergency procedure presented here?

Take it that you know the answer and are providing it for discussion...good enough. If anyone finds it (or a generator bearing caution light) in Chapter 9, let me know...I'm obviously on my arse.

Yale--or any other Hawkdrivers currently at Rucker,

Is the above the mal-anal from the Systems Branch's IMI program? If so, have they come out with an update/fix to make it work with Vista?

This one isn't and I'm not sure about the Vista.

As far as the EP, I was actually looking for help because I can't pinpoint it. I was thinking alternator failure but I didnt understand why the low trq on eng 1, high rpm 1 & R and high tgt on eng 2.

Okay,

Yes, it is an alternator failure (#2 specifically). Engine is still generating power, but the # 2 ECU has lost power.

Starting top to bottom, then left to right.

1. #2 Eng out--NG alternator winding lost, so signal fell below 55% NG--here comes the light and audio.

2. TGT Limiting--this aircraft has lost #2 TGT limiting (because the ECU is the TGT limiter). Aircraft has not hit where TGT Limiting starts (but is inop in this scenario) because NP overspeed has limited it already.

3. Lost #2 NG signal because of the alternator (one of the windings/signals/functions of the alternator)

4. #1 NP is up to approx 103%. Function of the #1 ECU's load share function (I know, two "functions" in the same sentence--I'm in Alaska and IT IS still early--give me a break). Anyway, an ECU will allow NP to share UP 3% from its reference (100%), but not decrease/share DOWN. Went from 100 to 103 accordingly.

5. RPM-R followed #2 NP up to 106 (explanation of how I know 106 without seeing #2 is next).

6. #2 went to 106% NP. Remember that the ECU has redundant/backup airframe power for two things in the event it's respective alternator fails: NP overspeed protection and history recorder. So #2 high sided to the NP limit of 106%. We have plenty of power (we didn't anywhere near 843 on TGT), so we did not get a low rotor situation, but instead the rotor is isochronous with the #2 NP.

7. Torque on one isn't hardly anything...because #2 is pulling the load as the higher revving engine.

Have no idea if I hit what you were asking...but I did explain everything shown on that malanal slide

If you have further questions tonight, perhaps one of the guys can answer it...I've got 1st Up at my hangar tonight (and mil.com discussions are firewalled at work).

First of all, the pop ups with image shack or whoever you used to post that picture sucked. Smoke yourself for that.

Also be prepared to flush that EP when you go to L and M model aircraft.

But that is indeed what it is.

I believe the P underlined steps are:
1. EXT POWER SWITCH- ON
2. OAT GAUGE- MONITOR

I had a #2 SDC Channel Fail once, and it presented a similar picture. (This was in a L model so I wasn't expecting [nor did I see] any high side failure).

The SDC channels are rarely discussed and I had a hell of a time diagnosing it. Luckily the PC kept a cool head and didn't respond to engine out light/audio.

I'm not sure if this situation can be replicated by pulling a circuit breaker, but it's worth seeing. Once you know to look for the "channel" light it's pretty simple.

I think the GEN bearing is in chapter 2, page 2-70. You have 10 hours avialable on the aux bearing after the caution appears. It is not mentioned in chapter 9.

This is good stuff guys.

quote:

Originally posted by icarian1:
Take it that you know the answer and are providing it for discussion...good enough. If anyone finds it (or a generator bearing caution light) in Chapter 9, let me know...I'm obviously on my arse.

thanks

quote:

Originally posted by Autorotate:

Also be prepared to flush that EP when you go to L and M model aircraft.

You know Auto, I was hoping for that, too. I DID get 11 years from flight school before I got swallowed back in an Alpha. But sometimes **it happens

I actually have a certain affinity for my birds--my pilots can actually relate to tab data work / power management a lot more than if they were flying an L or M.

Uh, that's a silver lining I suppose?

Icarian, glad to see you causing trouble over on this website also...j/k
Here at Rucker, we are all using change #2. Here's the question for everyone. Are you turning on your #1 and #2 generators on the thru flight? If you are then that means that you're not following the checklist!!! Whoever recommended that change for their "top block" didn't think about a thru flight. Also, what's up with the "collective, from full down position, raise no more than 1 inch" on cockpit equipment checks but on parking and shutdown it still has "collective raise no more than 1 inch"?
Just something to ponder on I guess.

Icarian, you hit the nail on the head as to the EP of the #2 Alt failure. You explained exactly the way it needed to be.
As far as dumping anything that you'ver learned, we all do it to a certain extint I guess you could say. Icarian brought up a good point about being out of "A" models for awhile and then going back to them. Myself, I've never flown a "L" model. 2,000+ UH-60 hours have all been in an "A" model (been MEDEVAC for 12 years out of the 14...UH-1 MEDEVAC also).
Stay in the books and learn what systems do what and you will have a much better experience while you're in FSXXI/AQC.

quote:

Originally posted by uh60dustoff:
Are you turning on your #1 and #2 generators on the thru flight?

My IP is already claiming submission of that correction.

And to change the subject... Apparently, they are already working on an upgrade to the 60M. From this month's Army Aviation magazine..

"In an effort to provide greater capability to the warfighter, we are working to upgrade the UH -60M Black Hawk. The UH-60M Upgrade aircraft leverages the development efforts of the UH-60M Baseline Program and integrates fly-by-wire flight controls, full authority digital engine control (FADEC), common avionics architecture system cockpit (common with the CH-47F and ARH), and a composite tail cone and driveshaft." etc... the article goes on to talk about plenty of other interesting stuff.