I realize the chances are 0 if I were to not try to get in but I will provide you with some supporting background. I am 26 have very few college credits completed, never arrested or in trouble with the law for any reason, not any taxable job in the past 4 years or so but I do have all my flight ratings done short of my instructor ratings, and I can have 6 very good LORS written from prominent figures of my community including a Chief of Police, a head of a local labor union, a well respected business man and also attorneys if necessary. Any help would be appreciated seeing this is my first post ever after scouring the boards for some time now. I appreciate any input that can be provided.

What are your scores like?

If you catch any grief about the unemployment thing, ask if it would make them feel better if you took a job at McDonald's. I mean, sounds like you've been busy in the meantime. Any further grilling about the job thing is just insensitive, considering how hard it is to get hired anywhere meaningful at the moment.

Aviator material won't be happy in a min. wage job, I'm sure you know this for yourself.

The scores question you ask are 130 GT and 92.. If that helps at all.. Decided to go out and get twisted tonight since I won't have that option once I go in. Are these scores any good? I don't know what the AFAST will be like but I have a good idea and expect to be in the 140 range having all my ratings done.

Alright, well, for when you wake up tomorrow at noon ha ha

I agree, with a GT like that I think you can expect to bust out a 140, at least. I think you will break 150.

Provided you can burn through the AFAST accurately and completely. (like you did on your ASVAB... which is still valid? You may want to check on that. Off the top of my head, I think the ASVAB expires after 2 years)

The process is simple:

ASVAB
MEPS (what is your height and weight like)
Flight Phys (how is your vision, hearing and teeth)
AFAST (great free reference material available)

the following in no particular order:

Letters, including 1 from aviator (easy)
Dress and Appearance photo, (easy)
Personal Statement, (easy, requires some strategy)
PT test, (easy)
Security Interview/SF86 (background info. easy)

and finally an interview at your local recruiting battalion. (can be prepared for)

PS: step away from the computer when you are, as you say, "twisted" :-D You still have some time before you would leave, so slow down!

What kind of aviator should I be getting a recommendation from? The other things are a non issue besides being selected:. I know plenty of pilots right now who could write me a good letter.. My asvab is still valid I took it about two weeks ago.. Not trying to sound tough when j way I went out tonight, but the going out doesn't happen too often for me..

My height is 68 inches and 170 before being ready for the fitness test.
Vision, teeth, hearing are all top notch to the best of my knowledge.

How do you get prepares for the interview?

Awesome. Good job on the ASVAB. That you scored a 92
at 26 is impressive, I have to admit. (Mine was better,
but I was 17 when I took it and grammar and math were
fresh in my mind. I'm glad I don't have to take that
one again!) Also the maxed-out GT score. Great.

The important content in the aviator letter, or all of
them really, is
1: the supporting data for the recommendation
2: how well they know you

Those two things depend on each other, and for the
letter to carry any weight they have to "jive". I have
seen one letter by an aviator who stated they didn't
know the candidate very well, but the letter outlined
the candidate's professionalism, appearance,
preparedness, and the effort they put into arranging the
meeting.

The recommendation was low-key, but strong because it
made sense. It showed the candidate made the best of
their situation and wanted to exceed the standard with
an aviator's recommendation.

IIRC, they had two such aviator letters...

Here is the sample LOR guideline released by USAREC on
their site: LOR Sample 2009.pdf

Alternate formats for LORs are authorized, and I
requested mine be written in the older, "cleaner" way as
outlined in this guide: Sample LOR.pdf

Here is a look at what is being considered by the person writing your recommendation.

Wait until after your Flight Physical and AFAST to
request your letter(s). With those done, you will have
more to show the aviators who will be recommending you
and it may net you a stronger letter. Especially if you
score in the 150's, they could include that.

You need your Flight Physical completed and approved
before they will schedule/authorize you for the AFAST,
so you have a little bit of time to study. The AFAST
should be your primary concern at the moment. The MEPS
and Flight Phys are a matter of scheduling them and
showing up.

This post is so long... I'll post some thoughts about
the AFAST later.

PS: I forgot to list the Resume in my previous post. I
used a 1-page format.

Thanks for all your help so far. I'm not at all worried about the AFAST test. I've took some practice ones online and seems to be not so hard? I will be waiting to hear your thoughts on taking the AFAST and things along those lines. Have you already been selected for WOCS and are in the process or like me and just getting started? That may not be the best question to ask but I am in a rush writing this reply.

Yeah... I got everything done in four months, start-
to-selectee. Let's just say the process is fresh in
my memory and I look forward to seeing you at Rucker.

If you're wondering why, to be honest I get the
feeling I'm talking to someone just like me. The
great thing about a career such as this is the
chance to be among one's peers--intellectual,
cultural, physical, and spiritual (in the motivation/
what-drives-you kind of way).

In fact, I thought you were a good friend of mine
who is also in the process. I called him yesterday
to ask if he registered on Military.com and posted
in the Army Aviation section (true story). Your age,
general aviation background, test scores and even
your employment situation are the same. I'm also 26.

If you're like him, your employment situation is simply
due to your focus on aviation and you're resourceful
enough to have made it work for you.

Especially with the type of scores you'll have, it
makes sense you are single-minded about flying (and
that's a good thing).

My civilian job was not impressive, and I might as well
have been unemployed, but it was a source of income
(and that was the end of that topic in my interview).

So anyway, about the AFAST. There's debate over
whether it should be studied for, and whether it's
outdated, but IMO it's outdated when people start to
ace it (and that hasn't happened).

There are two ebooks that you want:
Thomson Peterson's Military Flight Aptitude Tests
FAA Rotorcraft Flying Handbook

The Rotorcraft Flying Handbook is great, but a lot
to chew through in a hurry. I had things going on,
and only a week before my test date so I skipped it.
Even without it my score was great, but I wonder what
it might have been if I had read it. I'm certain all
of my wrong answers were in the helicopter knowledge
section. But hey, it worked. With your aviation
experience and ground school, I think you'll do fine
with what you know, but it's still good to have the
book handy.

The Military Flight Aptitude Tests book is -awesome-.
I was only concerned about the Complex Movements section.
I made up a system for myself, and besides accuracy is
of course finishing... but without a good system you're
likely to run out of time. Time yourself on this section,
with practice tests. I had it down to 5,6 seconds per
question, including bubbling in the answer.

That's all good information. What about having the FAA ratings done? You think this will give me even ground against an applicant with a bachelors degree? Or am I still behind them? And you saying you want to be amongst your peers is one of my main reasons for going, somebody just like me who wants to succeed and do their military a great service in whatever airframe I am needed on and then to fly that airframe right to the edge every single time. I know we aren't flying a super hornet but if the military gave me a chance to fly a chair with wings and to help my country I would go for that as well. What a lot of people don't understand including my immediate family is this a great opportunity to gain priceless training and experience by the best in the business. WOCS for one I imagine is a first rate leadership class, and not to mention flight training that is estimated at somewhere near half a million dollars. Personally I don't have the chance everyday to fly 20 million dollar aircraft or log 200 hours of helicopter flight training in a turbine. I have flown turbine planes before and paid and it is not a fun proposition at 1000 dollars an hour. That's just my take, I may be mistaken and if I am please let me know. The only thing I think they are really worried about is getting this slot and them saying "Sorry due to needs of the Army you will be an 11b" or whatever they need right now. Is that at all possible. If I could get your experience from the time you get selected by the board and swearing in until you get out of WOCS would be greatly appreciated. Sorry for the long somewhat all over the place post. Just have a lot of thoughts right now and want to get them down in some way or another

Are you asking if having flight experience would be better than a bachelors? If so, I'd like to know this as well. Would having an associates degree and a ppl be better than no flight time and a bachelors? Or no degree but a ppl? Thoughts?

Ok so it sounds like your heart is in the right place.
Your head, though, not quite, but that's understandable
because you can't be expected to comprehend the enormity
of the opportunity you would be given.

The part about it not being a Super Hornet? Stop that.
Drop all regret you have for not going to college and
being ineligible for a fixed wing jet program. Trust the
decisions you have made and embrace who you are.

Admit it, college is boring and uninteresting and you
aren't impressed with the people who you have seen earn
four year degrees. Sure, college is a good idea, but a
degree does not trump someone who is exceptionally gifted
intellectually.

Another thing to consider, is the difference between your
role as a Warrant Officer and that of a "Real Life
Officer" (RLO). As a WO you will be expected to perform
not only as an aviator, but also as a subject matter
expert and advisor. This involves having a ton of
information in your head, aside from your piloting skills,
like... knowing everything your crew chief and maintainers
know about your aircraft. Tactics. Capabilities.
Real-world limitations. Everything.

A WO who knows their sh*t is invaluable to a commander.

Read up on the history of the Army Warrant Officer Corps,
at the very least to have it in your head for future
reference. Here's a good link and here's another.
Think about whether this role is the one you want to
fulfill in life, rather than increasing levels of command
of RLO's (and the Super Hornet pilot).

So. Score in the 150's or higher on your AFAST, proving
you have the intellect to be a knowledgeable Subject
Matter Expert, and you won't hear much about your lack of
a college degree.

The important thing to convey is that you are
interested in this program and applying yourself
as an Aviator and Warrant Officer to the benefit of the
Army.

About your FAA Ratings. Here's what it shows: You're
already committed to aviation. You're interested in
something and have stuck with it. You have accepted the
risk of death from falling out of the sky, and not having
a parachute or ejection seat. (if you're willing to do it
for fun, you sure as hell are willing to do it for your
country, no?)

Also on a practical level, you understand airway
procedures. You know the lingo. You know how to read the
charts and use the navaids.

Don't worry about being reclassed into 11b. That won't
happen unless you wash out of WOCS or Flight School. It's in your contract.

So. Keep these things on your mind, it will "hit you" eventually.

You must have me wrong with the Super Hornet part. I was merely saying the aircraft don't have the same performance characteristics. I could have went to college and tried to do that but I didn't and have no regret. I know lots of people with bachelors degrees and they all have a "profession" but it seems like they only got the job due to a piece of paper they earned by having a four year party more or less. I don't think my friends are any smarter than I am because of a degree.

alright, sounds like I heard ya wrong. I feel the same way.

Hey dirty01, how was your weekend. U alive?

Mine was great, and today I'm in the middle of helping my friend choose between a Cirrus sr22, and a Cessna 400. ...about 70 hours on each.

He likes the airspeed of the 400, but I think everything else about the Cirrus is better. The throttle, for one... a handle is so much cooler than a pull knob throttle cable, and there's the FLIR, Garmin integrated avionics...

But the d*cksticks in both are just weird.

With his family's means and his connections, I don't know if he'll to stay committed to this program...

I might need to say something, remind him not to equate any level of GA to MA.

I wouldn't bail on these plans for a half-mil prop job. ...a Hondajet, though... maybe!

I'm still alive not too much time to get on here though recently.

What were you helping him try to choose? Which one he can get a job in or train in?

I personally like the stick and rudder aspect of planes that have them. I did 50 hours with a stick between my legs and feels like it is the only way to fly in my opinion.

I would give up any civilian opportunity to get my hands on something military. The raw power and what it's made for is what I want.

I don't even thing a hondajet could turn me around, maybe a job flying an Air Tractor 802 or a thrush 660 and now we are talking.

Basically he's gotten himself hooked up with
some wealthy people who need someone to fly
them around in their planes. Right now a few
people are going in on a brand-new Cessna
400. 7 hours on the thing. It's pretty.

One of them is thinking about buying a Bell
206. The agreement is, they'll pay for his
ratings and give him access to the planes for
personal use. No pay, though.

He's good at working himself into sweet deals.

I agree with you. I think flying for the
sake of it, point-to-point, is boring. Being
part of something bigger is a huge motivation
for my wanting Army Aviation.

Anyway, I've been meaning to tell ya, in the
meantime you can do some pushups and situps
during your day... it's satisfying and it's a
good way to feel closer to your goal. Shoot
for five or six sets daily. I rest between
reps, and my test numbers are the same as my
max reps in one set.

Running at the butt-crack of dawn is good,
and it burns more fat than running later in
the day. 5 AM, before eating anything, do a
couple miles and the weight comes off like
nothing.

One more link I wanna give you, it's the
interview score sheet and a script. It's an
interesting read. WOFT Program PDF (pages 14 and 15)

My Board interviewers didn't follow the
script at all. They reviewed my packet for a
bit before calling me in, and then skipped
the pleasantries. I don't know if it was
part of the game, but they told me, "everyone
gets a 25/25".

It felt like they wanted to see how much
fight I had in me. If it turns out to be the
same for you, just focus and remember there
is always a respectful way to say things.

How's everything going in Alabama Mr Motivated? Getting to fly a lot yet or what should I hope to expect if I can get selected? I'm not worried about PT or anything physical or mental for that reason. The hard part seems to be getting these packets finished up and in good shape for the board. Any pointers on what to do with my packet? Should I even bother with the recruiter for that matter until I need him to schedule my flight physical after I pass my PFT? Sorry I've been a little lax on responding but trying to get my fun in while I can. Sorry if this message is all over the place, practicing sleep deprivation.. About time for me to start getting up at 5 and kicking these runs out

What's this crazy talk about practicing sleep
deprivation. You're beginning to worry me.

Talk to a recruiter, get them to schedule you
for a flight physical and the AFAST. Lemme
know how you do. The higher your AFAST, the
better.

Like I said before, 150 or higher and you
shouldn't have trouble getting your recruiter
to back you.

Just a heads up: I might not be available to
reply.

-but-

If you stop talking crazy, and show some
potential, someone else will... probably...
help you out. Work on your paragraph structure
and don't mention partying so much. It's like
you're making posts between keg stands.

Which sounds like fun, but it would be
reassuring to read a coherent post, once in a
while.

Hurry up and get your AFAST done.

I had a chat with my recruiter this morning,
during our workout, and something came up that
made me think of you.

He said a lot of people have the mindset that
they should party as hard as they can before
leaving for military duty.

To be honest I was worried that your posts...
showed signs of a reckless personality--I mean,
more than normal--but after listening to what
he had to say, I feel reassured that there's
hope for you.

I think what you're missing is an accurate
picture of what is ahead of you. Military
training has a "feel" and a "smell". It's a
mix of clean early morning air, and the smell
of damp asphalt. Your palms become moist and
grit sticks to your skin from doing pushups.

Tying it all together is a sense that you are
doing something unique, and experiencing
something not many people have the opportunity
to be a part of.

More practically, there will be time to party
after you're in. Trust me, one thing everyone
is guaranteed to know how to do, is have fun.

I don't want you to think I'm unlike you. I
struggle with things, like running and working
out -a lot- of the time. There are a lot of
things I don't feel like doing, and my solution
is to put myself in only situations I enjoy.

I want to be right about you, and have you
prove me right by excelling on your AFAST.

Take your time, and be careful.

I haven't told anyone who I am, but I may in
the future and I would like for you to be my
first assist. So I'm hoping you do well.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr_Motivated:
Military
training has a "feel" and a "smell". It's a
mix of clean early morning air, and the smell
of damp asphalt. Your palms become moist and
grit sticks to your skin from doing pushups.

Dude, you should definitely write a novel...