I have friends in high places sounds like I'm gonna tell my daddy. I didn't get to where I am by being worried about people in high places. Are they going to take away my birthday and bend my dog tags and send me to Iraq? Oh please say no. Yes, I am in big Army already, so when you see me (Super Troopers, since you like movie quotes) "Are you going to set my country music award on fire?" "I have friends in high places, don't mess with me" and "You'll have a problem with me" shows your maturity level. If you can't defend your position on a subject with out threatening to take your ball and go home, you should get thicker skin.

In all seriousness, the reason I pointed out your comment about the service obligation is because when you get to flight school you will see that there are people there that are only there to get their Commercial Rotary Wing license and nothing else. People used to get their license then fail out of flight school so that they could get a job in the civilian sector, which is why now you have to wait until after you get your wings to do all the paperwork for the FAA. These are the people that constantly ***** about the Army and are the problem children in the class.

Who said I'm going home, friend. Putting oneself in harm's way IS the name of the game, but so is picking your fights. You picked wrong.

Everything you've said is canned and parroted. Not only that, you're preaching to the choir.

The man makes the flying, not the other way around. Think about it.

Sounds like a classic case of "i-already-got-there-itis" to me....

Motivated, while your enthusiasm is admirable, consider your situation. You have been selected. So what? So were the rest of us at one point in time. Nothing is owed to you but the chance to prove you are worthy, dedicated, and have what it takes to get through what you are about to start. You can say you are, but the reality of it is you won't know until you get here.

You can't even hover yet, and your tone suggests that you are speaking like a 5000 hour IP with um-teen years in the Army. That is where I think the initial problem lies.

If nothing else, consider the point that it isn't what you say, but how you say it. Aviation is a small enough world where your attitude, perceived or otherwise, is going to be a very large portion of how far your career goes. Show up to a unit speaking like you do now, and I can pretty much guarantee you are going to sit in an assistant S-shop position for a long time until someone thinks your penance is done. Don't start burning bridges because you have been selected. At this point, a new guy straight out of WOCS with JOPD barely under his belt has more street cred with Army Aviation than you do. Be humble, be grateful, and be willing to learn and listen.

Sub is right, however. You have no idea what the board is looking for. The fact that you got selected sheds no light on whether or not your were first or last. In the end, it doesn't make a bit of difference.

In all honesty, I'm indifferent. However I am trying to shed some light simply for the sake of understanding.

quote:

Originally posted by trafficmp:


Sub is right, however. You have no idea what the board is looking for. The fact that you got selected sheds no light on whether or not your were first or last. In the end, it doesn't make a bit of difference.

In all honesty, I'm indifferent. However I am trying to shed some light simply for the sake of understanding.

I'm just trying to do the best I can to make my packet as good as possible. I studied to get my test scores as high as possible. Now I'm kicking my ass in the physical fitness aspect bringing my pushups and situps from the mid-50's range about a month and a half ago up to maxing them out now. Hopefully, I'll get some great letters of recommendation to round out the packet and hope.

Do you have access to any military aviators for the letters?

wilco, traffic.

In other news, I really am in Vegas and I was able to get this awesome picture at the MGM lion exhibit. To maybe offset the recent disturbance in the force, I present to you:

lion testicles. How awesome is that.

quote:

Originally posted by submariner737:
Do you have access to any military aviators for the letters?

Didn't know any previous to a few weeks ago - met a former aviator at a family party that is a current instructor that will take me up for about $175/hr which should be pretty cool. I think he may have finished as a CW2 or CW3.

Beyond that no. Any suggestions on getting a CW4 or CW5 or is that necessary?

The best thing to do is try to find a guard/reserve or active duty aviation unit in your area and do what ever you have to do to get in contact with a CW3 or Captain at a minimum. The higher rank the better. If you cant' get contact info for a unit on base, go to the PX during lunch and look for a high rank on a flight suit, don't be shy, just walk right up to them and and ask if they are a pilot. Explain you are putting your packet in and that you want to be just like them and that their hair looks great (flattery works awesome on type A personalities.)

I assume you are a civilian applicant so eventhough an aviator recommendation is not required it is preferred. The Dean of a college is a great recommendation, but to the board the Dean doesn't know what kind of person makes a good aviator. Good luck and don't take no for an answer.

anecdote time! yay!

Board interviewer, holding up my aviator letter: "I had one of these from a Brigadier General for OCS, and it was complete ********. What makes you think this will hold any weight with me?"

me: "well, it got you accepted."

quote:

Originally posted by Mr_Motivated:

"well, it got you accepted."

yeah. glad you liked it.

For your aviator letter? Find out if your alumni association at your Alma Mater can give you a name or names of current Army aviators who are your fellow alums. Then try this: http://www.defenselink.mil/faq/pis/PC04MLTR.html

Perhaps your old professors would have some connections.

Building rapport might be tough, but if you write a short, 3-4 page bio on yourself and what your motivations are, it will give your endorser more to go on.

and remember, kids: Fresh is always better than canned.

I have more to say. I've thought it over for a day, slept on it a couple nights and it just doesn't feel right.

I won't chop my b*lls off. Not even online, I can't hold my tongue when I've been wrongly accused.

If the 'aviation is such a small community' thing is true, that's fine. It means both parties will be understood by whoever cares. For the most part, I think it was presented as a scare tactic.

Ya know... 'so-and-so has been doing this longer than you' does not make them infallible. By that logic, I will always be wrong. That's just ridiculous. What's more, if I speak when not spoken to, I will be relegated to sweeping floors.

...That is a bleak mother-f'in outlook, when the reality is my future is quite bright.

There has to be more to being right than just rank and time in grade/service. You owe that to your crew and everyone else who works to make it possible for you to fly. The question,"Why do they get to do it and not me" cannot go unanswered, and the answer has to be more substantial than "I went to school for it". Resentment from those in your charge is bad.

Anyone who mentions your career and hints that it is in jeopardy is a huge warning sign. To imply that they can and will affect it negatively is just mean and untrue. Warrants are not rated by other warrants, only RLOs. I've butted heads with a lot of people, and a lot of them wished bad on me and said the same thing about my career, but look where it is now. Still climbing. Where are they? Working in a maintenance shop somewhere.

People can speculate and hope I screw up, and I say let 'em. The reality is, I get along with a LOT of people. Just keep in mind that it matters who you associate with.

I'm not a punk or an idiot. I'm respectful, and I support authority wholeheartedly. I understand the system will not work unless I am obedient. I know my place.

Remember: this is a public forum accessible by all, but populated by a few--so the feedback you get may be skewed.

The nerds hang with the nerds, the skaters with the skaters, jocks with the jocks, band, etc. It's all the same.

Sure, a lot remains to be seen, but others have done it before me and I am quite above average so I'm not worried. I make all the friends I need, if you know what I mean.

Tucking your junk and nodding is no way to go through life.

I am a badass. I owe it to the people who will have to work under me, to be exactly who I am.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr_Motivated:

Tucking your junk and nodding is no way to go through life.

I agree. But there are times where you need to STFU, move your head up and down the vertical plane, and say "Uh, huh." and "Yes, Sir." It's the way it is. It's aviation, and it is the military. If you can't swallow your pride once in a while, don't even show up here to start training. IP's and PC's currently know more than you about Army aviation. You are effectively AV-retarded. Most of us are when we are new. The kick is, it regresses over time as long as you are willing to, like I said, STFU, listen, learn, and apply.

quote:

I am a badass. I owe it to the people who will have to work under me, to be exactly who I am.

While I am normally not one to do this, and at the risk of sounding cliche'.....

The line, "...your ego is writing checks that your body can't cash," is right on. You are well on your way to sliding down that slippery slope by starting off your flying career like that.

If you fly with that attitude and YOU WILL get people killed. Whether it is just the two of you in the front, or you and 33 others in the back, your attitude towards doing something or not doing something will be the deciding factor.

Since we are on the topic of attitude, something you will hear about when you get here are the "hazardous attitudes." Everyone has a trace of at least one.

1. Antiauthority ("Don't tell me!") - Don't like anyone telling him/her what to do. Resentful of rules & regulations.

2. Impulsivity ("Do something - do it now!") - Need to do something, anything, quickly. Don't stop to think about better alternatives.

3. Invulnerability ("It won't happen to me.") - Accidents happen to other people, not to me. Therefore, I can take chances.

4. Macho ("I can do it.") - Always trying to prove themselves better than others. Take risks and try to impress others. Yes, women, too!

5. Resignation ("What's the use?") - I really can't make a difference. It's going to happen anyway, why bother? Leave actions to others.

So far, you are 1, 3, 4. A venerable recipe for disaster.

I exhibit trends in certain situations towards 2 and 3. It actually was a pretty interesting study topic.

The two challenge rule, and the most conservative response....you'll learn, you'll adjust, and you WILL adhere. Otherwise, your career is going to be very short and you will be miserable.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: trafficmp,

right. speculation. thanks.

They forgot "Guard".

But hey, thanks for the warning.

I wonder if we're on the same page, and too much is being lost in the text. If that's the case, I should feel foolish.

This is taking a lot outta me.

What are you doing lurking the forum, anyway. I don't plan to come back once I start. I figure I'll have enough interaction with people IRL. Do you hear whoop-whooping in the background? That's how I imagine it is, and that would be nice.

We might be....probably are.

Surprisingly enough, Rucker is pretty quiet. I thought when I showed up that it would just be chaos with tons of helicopters flying all over the place.

Not so. I occasionally hear a -64 or a -60 going over my house every now and then the Air Force lets us know they are still around.....struggling to keep up.

Mr Motivated- in everything I've read from you, you come off as way arrogant, even compared to all the A-types with whom I'm work. That's not entirely bad. I think most of us would agree that confidence and decisiveness are good traits in aviators. But you need to be prepared for the day of reckoning you have coming... the day when you will be humbled. It happens at different points for different people. It may be at SERE, it may be in instruments, or it may be when you're just having an off day with a tough IP at the flight line. Accept now that your day is coming. Then it might not hit you so hard when it happens, and you might actually be able to learn from it.

For the most part, I think we all consider ourselves bad-asses. How else could we have even been selected for WOFT? But you're going from being **** hot at whatever you did before, to being at the very bottom of the food chain in aviation. The guys at the top will be much more likely to want to help you if you present yourself as someone who's eager to learn instead of as someone who already knows it all.

Just my 2 cents. I hope all you new guys do great. I'm looking forward to having new WOJGs to share the load of additional duties.

Oh, and Traffic- good call reminding everyone about the "hazardous attitudes." I'm probably more #3 than anything (though not as much as I used to be), and I'm an example of a female with some #4 tendencies, too.

Thanks. You're right.

Would you believe it's because I'm just that awesome? I'm kidding.

I have too much time on my hands. I'm causing a mess.