Yep, I was a little shocked when I heard our Branch CSM mention that on Monday. Honestly, I am not 100% sure what he was talking about, as I hadn't seen them in any pictures in any of the respective hallways around academics.
His reasoning for them being taken away was some a-hole wasn't wearing it correctly a while ago and ruined it for everyone. There is always that one guy....
Personally, I think we should leave them out. It didn't sound like he trusted us with them anyway. Some one will F- it up. Not to mention that we would look like the T-Ball Coaches Association of America and not a military service. I hope it gets stomped out.
My point of view on this topic is that I'm actually glad to hear someone has a sense of logic and tradition in their attempt at bring back the class hats.
The incident regarding the loss of the hats goes something to the effect of two flight school students were leaving the gym and approached by Gen Sinclair and the TRADOC Cdr. When asked the purpose of the class hats they said "I don't know". The TRADOC Cdr looked at Sinclair and said get rid of them while quoting "we are a nation at war".
For those unfamiliar with the history of the class hats, check out this web site. Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Assoc. I for one was proud to wear a colored hat (brown) and carry on a tradition that dates back to before Vietnam.
And while others like Traffic may deem it doesn't look like "a military service" neither does the solo cycle, CAV spur rides, earning your wings at the bottom of a boot filled with liquor or getting tossed in a pool like the USAF does. It is however a since of tradition and history which you might not truly appreciate until closer to the end of your career.
Don't get me wrong, I am all about traditions. I still haven't given away my silver dollars yet! I just think that it is setting us up to get them taken away again. Like I said, there will always be that one person who screws it up for the rest of us. So, rather than prolong the inevitable, I would rather just keep things as they are.
If my experiences thus far here have taught me anything it is that is always harder to lead your peers than it is to lead junior soldiers. Making a correction to a peer (at least here in Rucker-land) isn't met with the same regard that it would be if I were correcting a SPC. Rather than say "Yes, Sir" and move out, I would venture to say that a fellow WO1, or even a LT pulled to the side would give me a "Who the F--- are you?" type of attitude and continue being wrong while we all end up paying for it in the end. You know what I mean?
Good, damn glad to hear it. The hats helped form some class identity.I was a purple hat (dick head) as they called us. I hope they still let you put on the solo wings. The colored hats go way back and it should be brought back. Good deal. No "one person" screwed it up anyway. That is not what happened. One general did not like how it looked, it was that simple. 30 years of tradition gone, but not for the actions of a student.
Now if we could just get the rest of the Army to change back to the comfortable, washable, one hand to put on, sun out of the eyes, soft cap, life would be perfect.
What? If you are actually affording mental thought (while in flight school) to issues of doing an on site correction to SPC or a fellow student and the likely ramification, I would urge you to realign your ways of thinking. Never once while in flight school or out here in the real world, have I made "corrections" to fellow Warrants or enlisted personnel.
Take stock as to why you are in flight school and the important things being taught to you. Strive to strengthen the brotherhood among your classmates. Don't be that "that guy" who thinks he is still in WOCS. Disregard everything else, enjoy your time there and lastly, most importantly -- don't take yourself too seriously.
quote:
Originally posted by trafficmp: Making a correction to a peer (at least here in Rucker-land) isn't met with the same regard that it would be if I were correcting a SPC. Rather than say "Yes, Sir" and move out, I would venture to say that a fellow WO1, or even a LT pulled to the side would give me a "Who the F--- are you?"
I would say on that--SITUATIONAL DEPENDENT. No one likes a spring butt/ask kisser/etc. But if someone is doing something stupid enough, police your own (your own being your peers warrant or RLO). Don't do it publicly and don't be anal retentive about small/silly sh*t (best judgment on what that it is).
And a junior enlisted does not an officer make. They are not your peers--they don't need a roving ***** walking around (just like none of us want one around either), but we are expected to lead by example. Remember your roots--we all know someone that has forgotten where they came from (that roving *****). Sometimes we as a community have a problem with that because it isn't cool. Then something happens and we tighten things up again. There is a "sweet spot" that I and my peers here try to stay in (common sense/professional to all approach...but if a green tab has to be brought in, we know we failed somewhere). It is a local cyclic thing imho.
Originally posted by 17171479: Either they were highly polished, hastily shined, or ate the hell up.
Only one problem with that though-- that is situationally dependent too. For example: back when black boots were standard, I kept at least three pairs. One was highly shined to a mirror finish for formal stuff and inspections; one was for everyday wear and kept reasonably well-shined (aka "good enough for government work"); and one for the field, which were totally scuffed, unshined, and looked like cold sh|t. I still do that with my desert boots. I have a custom-made pair that almost never sees the light of day, a couple sets for daily wear, and one set that I really don't care what happens to them (field boots).
I consider myself pretty disciplined, have good attention to detail, and at times, even more "hooah" than my peers would like. But if you catch me just coming out of the field with a dirty uniform and scuffed-up boots, you might mistake me for a sh|tbag. Not a very accurate or fair assessment.
Im not familiar with the tradition of the past, but in my personal opinion this uniform stuff is getting way out of hand. Ever TRADOC post or class always has to have some silly variation of the military uniform. There is always something you have to wear that just screams "hey look at me im the FNG". There is no reason we had to spend all that money T shirts and shoelace stuff in WOCS, the gray shirts work just fine. At rucker the AIT students should just take their ruck everywhere you go with all the stuff they have on the pistol belt. All of that just makes you look rediculous, I wish they would just leave it alone.
I don't.. know the hat thing goes waaaaay back. Honestly, I think it will be kind of cool. All the pilots in my old unit talked about the hat thing fondly and I had expected it when I got here. Tradition is a good thing. And when your at Rucker in flight school you are a FNG, no matter where you've been before.
Rucker is....well Rucker. We've had a SGM roll up in FSXXI hold and tell us to our face (with senior Warrant Officers in the room) that we bring nothing to the table, our deployments and experience mean nothing and they don't have to salute us. Alot of us have been in combat with many years time in. So we don't matter.
I know some folks don't like flight school students and some resent us. I fly helicopters so I don't care. Their will always be some dude wherever you go telling you your the new guy and your a loser, blah, blah. So what? If theirs one thing I don't feel the need to do is get into a pissing contest with any folks down here, it's not worth my time. I don't mind getting hazed. I hear even Autorotate has to stock the fridge in his fixed wing unit!?
Bring on the hats!! I get paid to be a pilot..who cares.
Colored hats (my opinion only)- GAY , SGM telling you he doesn't have to salute a Warrant, not only GAY, but also goes against Army values. Any idea what his MOS was? I bet I could guess a few.
