I came to this website with my questions because I got a lot of great info before I joined, I thought I would get some good info again but either my questions are too obscure or no one wants to answer them.
I would like your opinion however since you know more about aviation life than I do. I really really hate being lower enlisted and keep thinking I made a mistake joining, that mostly comes from the fact I don't do my job so I'm always bored and I hate being treated like I'm fresh out of high school when I am, in fact 30 years old.
I'm on the fence about whether to even drop my flight packet-that's 6+ more years in the military that I'm having doubts about now. I'm wondering what an aviation unit is like. I keep hearing that when you're a WO and in an aviation unit everything will be different and more laid back. I want to be doing something and learning new things, I don't want to be sitting on my 4th point of contact all day. Will I be disappointed if I do make it through WOFT, or will it be just what I need?
Your opinions are appreciated, thank you.

You have to pay your dues in the Army. Whether you're 18 or 30, junior enlisted or a junior warrant, things tend to suck for a while until you gain some experience, establish a good reputation for yourself, and earn some rank. In some ways it's probably worse as a new warrant because you get stuck with a bunch of crappy additional duties.

If you're bored, take some college classes. Volunteer to go to the combat lifesaver course or combatives training. Prove to your supervisors that you deserve to be treated with more credibility. But give the Army a chance before you develop such a negative attitude. Otherwise you're just going to hate life for the remainder of your ADSO.

As for WOFT... don't apply based on the assumption that things will be more "laid back." Aviation units ARE different, but I would argue that not all the differences are good. That being said, I love my job. But I also loved my job when I was enlisted.

I guess I would say to just give things some time before you make up your mind. How long have you been in the Army now?

quote:

Originally posted by Cozi:
I really really hate being lower enlisted and keep thinking I made a mistake joining, that mostly comes from the fact I don't do my job so I'm always bored and I hate being treated like I'm fresh out of high school when I am, in fact 30 years old.

I just have to mention additional duties one more time. You'd be amazed how much time you spend doing non-aviation things as an aviation warrant.

Thanks for your input. As far as not doing my job, it's not like I'm doing other things instead. I really do NOTHING. The last 3 months I've played games on my cell phone all day. It sucks.
The thing is, I can't give the warrant thing more time-I'm 30 and when I come back from deployment I'll be 4 months shy of 32. I really need to make this decision now, and right now I'm thinking I want out of the Army, but I know staying in and making warrant will be good for me.
I've volunteered for all the classes I could, I guess I should just take the time to get used to this, I've only been in for a year-so I'm a baby.
What other things do you do as an aviation warrant?

weird. I thought I posted in this thread.

What I said originally was... it depends on how you look at the service obligation, or military service in general. I didn't completely enjoy my enlisted time, but I knew it was a matter of finding the job I wanted in the military.

I'm eager to see myself through a long career.

Military service or not, my advice to you is find what you love doing and do it!

Cozi,

You're right about being on the edge agewise. If you're going to drop that WOCS/WOFT packet, you better do it yesterday!

As for how Aviation works... Yeah it's different. At least in my unit, the lines between enlisted, Warrant, and Commissioned Officers is very blurred. Soldiers of all ranks tend to call eachother by first name, which shocked me initially, and still doesn't sit right with me (I don't do it). Aviation is more "laid back" in the discipline aspect. If you're anything like me, "Old School" when it comes to that stuff, it'll drive you nuts. If you're a laid-back kinda gal who isn't into all the parade rest, formality, etc. that many other Army units pride themselves on, then you'll fit right in.

as for doing your job in Aviation-- I can tell you that you won't always do your job in AV a lot either. I've been tasked out longer than I've actually done my MOS. It won't matter in a few months, because I'll be going to OCS. The flight crews that I know don't always fly, especially out here in Iraq when sandstorms keep us grounded for days at a time. There's always other tasks and details to do. That's just the Army.

If you are thinking about getting out, what are you going to do on the outside? Do you have a stable job lined up? Will you be able to make it in this tough economy?

I can relate to being lower enlisted and "older" than the average lower enlisted Soldier. I hate it too. I've been in a little over 2 years and it still sucks, because with the exception of the one FNG we just got (who is a PFC) everyone in my platoon is a SPC or SGT. So everyone is more or less treated the same-- like a piece of crud. That's one of the reasons I dropped my OCS app; you don't see many officers doing stupid details.

So my advice to you is to get that packet in NOW! Stick it out while your packet is in the works. If you get picked up great. If not, see about re-classing when your re-enlistment window opens. The civilian world isn't too much better.

Good Luck!

Matt
SPC, AV
US Army
OCS Selectee
Class 303-10

Thanks Matt, I think I will at least put it in, if I don't get picked up-oh well.
I also had a hard time figuring out what I wanted to do if I got out and I've looked into flight schools. I think that's what I'll try. It's expensive, but with some help from the GI bill I think it'll work.
I really want to fly, but I think I also want to be a civilian again too. We'll see how I feel when/if the verdict comes back positive on the packet.

I hate the idea that you have an "oh well" attitude towards your packet and WOFT. Seriously, think about it. If you get picked up, and complete school, you'll have a six year obligation. If you think you want to be a civilian now, don't do it.

Don't take a training slot away from someone who really wants it if you only care enough to give an "oh well".

on the other hand, hawkhopeful, just blow your competition out of the air. Sounds like this one's not trying as hard as you will ;-)

After all, it's not Cozi's fault if you are less-qualified.

I mean... if Cozi manages to pick someone off, shame on them...

Know what I'm sayin'?

I know exactly what you're saying, but in the end, I think someone who wants it more will work harder during training and for the six years they're obligated.

I've already been accepted. I'm not worried about Cozi.

quote:

Originally posted by Cozi:
Thanks Matt, I think I will at least put it in, if I don't get picked up-oh well.
I also had a hard time figuring out what I wanted to do if I got out and I've looked into flight schools. I think that's what I'll try. It's expensive, but with some help from the GI bill I think it'll work.
I really want to fly, but I think I also want to be a civilian again too. We'll see how I feel when/if the verdict comes back positive on the packet.

Cozi,

I have looked into using the GI Bill for (helicopter) flight school. The Gov't will only pay for a vocational cert geared towards a career goal. Thus, it will pay for a Commercial Pilot license, but not a Private Pilot license. Therefore, the PPL is out of your pocket, and then the Gov't will pay for your Commercial (and any further) rating(s).

I started my helicopter flight lessons a few years ago, and it was expensive (~$300/hr wet lease). I ran out of money after 8 hours of stick time.

Just something to think about...

Matt
SPC, AV
US Army
OCS Selectee
Class 303-10

Thanks Matt, I've been looking into it too-expensive.
Hawk. If I got accepted and went to school I guarantee I'd graduate top 5 in my class-everything I do I put 100% into (including my packet), thanks for worrying about how hard I'd work and all, but maybe you should think of how YOU'RE going to do. I want to fly, I just don't think I want to give the army another 7 years of my life. Mine is not an "oh well" attitude, I'm just on the fence.

Alright, I apologize. I misunderstood.

What did you say you're on the fence about, again, other than the service commitment?

What I'm thinking is this: If you want to do something for a year or two, why not do it for ten or twenty.

What is the ADSO as an Aviator keeping you from?

I'm just curious. I want to know what alternatives you have in mind. Let's figure this out.

Don't like the ADSO?

Then don't apply for millions of dollars in training.

Easy enough.

quote:

Originally posted by Cozi:
If I got accepted and went to school I guarantee I'd graduate top 5 in my class-everything I do I put 100% into (including my packet), thanks for worrying about how hard I'd work and all, but maybe you should think of how YOU'RE going to do.

Before you get too full of yourself, I'd remind you that flight school is packed with A-type personalities who are accustomed to being the best and brightest in their fields. Some are combat proven veterans, others are experienced pilots, and still others are 18-year-olds who somehow managed to impress the selection board with only a high school resume. I would guess that the majority of them intend to give 100 percent just like you do.

How can you expect to be such a huge success as an officer when, by your own admission, you're not doing so great as an enlisted Soldier? I'm not saying you can't eventually succeed in flight school, but I think you need to adjust your attitude first. Becoming an officer is not the magic answer to your life's woes. I'll repeat my earlier advice: Make opportunities for yourself through military and civilian education. That will impress your supervisors, give you greater job satisfaction, and possibly help you figure out what to do with your life.

And I agree with hawkhopeful. Please don't waste a WOFT training slot if you're not sure you want it. People who go into it blindly or with ulterior motives seem to be the ones who cause the most problems later.

I apologize if you think I was being too "full of myself" leica, I was just impressing upon him the fact that I would put 100% effort into it and that he needs to worry about himself more and me less.
And for the record, I never said I wasn't doing well as an enlisted soldier. I do everything I'm told and I do it well, usually better and with more effort than my peers. I just don't like the way I'm treated like I'm 17 when I'm 30. Whatever career army people may think, the civilian work force and the army are not much different.
Lastly, to finish off this thread, I've decided that I don't want to make the commitment to active duty army for another 7 to 8 years, so I think I'm going to join the reserves after this enlistment and pay my way through a civilian flight school. I've already been looking into them and how much the MGI Bill will help me out (not a whole hell of a lot by the way-big bucks out of pocket). I actually had the opportunity to sit down with someone today and start putting my packet together and I passed. I won't be taking anyone's chance at WOFT away so you guys can rest easy tonight.
I appreciate your input, thank you.

Toss a packet in with the Guard or Reserves. We can always use folks! Don't rule it out.

For what it's worth:

It sounds like you are simply unhappy. That's understandable. I can't imagine how hard it is to be 30, an adult, husband, and father, and swallow direction from a jacked up 22 year old Sergeant. I know what you're thinking.

I am reminded of a band called Sister Hazel who wrote a song called "Change Your Mind." As corny as it sounds, I was at a cross roads in life much like you are regarding the military. I wasn't happy with what I was doing, who I was becoming, and what lay ahead. So, I changed my mind, and accepted no other possible outcome than what I would have considered to be acceptable and fell into my narrow definition of success. A few years later, here I am.

"If you want to be somebody else, change your mind."

Here's hoping things brighten up for you in the future.

All my best.

Thanks traffic, I appreciate it. My favorite part of the army is listening to a 22 year old sergeant try to tell me how the "real world" is when he's been in the army since 17. He's never had to pay for rent or utilities a day in his life, or had to fill out an job application. I just nod and walk away.
As far as dropping a packet in the reserves/NG, I'll be too old. Man, I never thought I'd say something like that at 30.

So you've based your decision on your experience in this thread?

I mean, what changed between the time you were on the fence at the start of this thread, and now? Nothing, besides a perceived hostility right?

You just like shooting the breeze, don't you. If that's not the case here, I think you lack direction.

I won't downplay your life experience, if you don't downplay my decision to serve in the military at the age of 17. Respect for others is something we can learn no matter what we do in life--military or not.

Being a good Soldier requires time spent Soldiering, so if you're a Soldier among Soldiers, it would matter who's been a Soldier longer. Right, Soldier? Or do you have so much baggage that you don't have it in you to be a follower?

Allow me to qualify your statement about outpacing your peers--your peers are junior enlisted. Having been among them, I wonder about a person who would pride themselves on that.

My decisions have panned out better than yours, so in a way, I have been smarter than you right? I mean, I'm 26 years old with 6 years of Active Duty under my belt, and I'm sitting at the front end of Flight School.

Just a friendly warning, man: you're defeating yourself.

Some people want a handout, others need a hand up. I can't tell which you are, but I know I tried and therefore I am absolved.

If you sit and wait for inspiration to hit you, it will never come. You keep moving forward and fight for every inch of progress, and then you SMACK into it.

While we're on the issue of experience, what would you like to compare? Debt? Lawsuits? Arrests? Pink Slips? Salaries? Failed Marriages? Successful ones? Injuries? Sexual Conquests... ? How have we reacted to adversity in our lives? That counts too.

PS: tick tock tick tock

quote:

Originally posted by Cozi:
And for the record, I never said I wasn't doing well as an enlisted soldier.

To me, the following passage makes it sound like you're not doing well.

quote:

I really really hate being lower enlisted and keep thinking I made a mistake joining, that mostly comes from the fact I don't do my job so I'm always bored and I hate being treated like I'm fresh out of high school when I am, in fact 30 years old.

What you don't seem to understand is that you're not being treated like a 17-year old; you're being treated like a junior enlisted Soldier, which is what you are. It just so happens that most of your peers are younger than you. Do you believe you deserve preferential treatment simply based on your age?

I think I'm done with this discussion, but I just want you to know that nothing I said was meant as a personal attack against you. You asked for our opinions, and I tried to give you constructive advice based on my experience as a prior NCO and current aviation warrant. I hope you can find some job satisfaction, whatever you decide. Try to stay positive.