Hello everyone,

I really need some advice, as I've searched endlessly for answers and have come up empty handed.

I am currently a civilian Army WOFT applicant, and I aced my warrant officer board interview yesterday, June 4th. The board unanimously recommended me, each giving me a score of 25/25. My packet is being submitted to Fort Rucker, Alabama for the June 15th selection board.

Well, here's the issue:
My recruiter got a phone call today from the flight surgeon down at Ft. Rucker, stating that my vision is slightly worse than 20/50 -- which would be disqualifying. My vision is 20/60 in one eye, and 20/70 in the other. The flight surgeon told my recruiter that if I could get an optometrist to verify that my vision is in fact 20/50, they'll go ahead and approve my flight physical.

I honestly have no idea if my distant vision acuity is worse than 20/50, but it's definitely worth getting checked out. I worked very hard over the past few months putting my packet together (ASVAB = 89, AFAST = 147, six strong letters of recommendation, private pilot's license, etc.), and I'm in panic mode because I passed the board interview -- not only did I pass it, but I got the highest marks possible.

So here's my question(s):
Let's say my vision is indeed 20/50, but before going through WOFT/IERW, I retake my Ft. Rucker flight physical and it shows one eye as 20/50, and the other as 20/60 -- am I then disqualified?! Would my vision be waiverable? If not, would I be obligated to serve six years based on the needs of the Army?

I'm concerned that something so minor could qualify me today, but disqualify me in the future. I was under the assumption that for initial entry into warrant officer flight training, if your vision was worse than 20/50 - so long as it was correctable to 20/20 - it was acceptable. Apparently I'm wrong, because the flight surgeon at Fort Rucker is telling me otherwise.

Well, you really have two options: get your vision re-checked and submit it to Rucker, or don't get it re checked and have zero chance at WOFT. Who cares what the standards really are, you have to get it re-checked and submitted. If you are disqualified, no you don't owe 6 years. If you are disqualified while in flight school, thats a different story...

AR 40-501, para 4-12 (dated 14 December 2007):

quote:

4-12. Vision
The causes of medical unfitness for flying duty Classes 1/2/2F/3/4 are the following:

a. Class 1. Any disqualifying condition must be referred to optometry or ophthalmology for verification.

(1) Distant visual acuity. Uncorrected distant visual acuity worse than 20/50 in each eye. If the distant visual acuity is 20/50 or better in either eye, each eye must be correctable to 20/20 with no more than 1 error per 5 presentations of 20/20 letters, in any combination, on either the Armed Forces Vision Tester (AFVT) or any projected Snellen chart set at 20 feet. (See ATB, Distant Visual Acuity Testing and APL, Decreased Visual Acuity.)

(2) Near visual acuity. Uncorrected near visual acuity worse than 20/20 in each eye; with no more than 1 error per 5 presentations of 20/20 letters, in any combination, on the AFVT or any Snellen near visual acuity card. (See ATB, Near Visual Acuity Testing and APL, Decreased Visual Acuity.)

Get the vision rechecked to make sure.

quote:

So here's my question(s):
Let's say my vision is indeed 20/50, but before going through WOFT/IERW, I retake my Ft. Rucker flight physical and it shows one eye as 20/50, and the other as 20/60 -- am I then disqualified?! Would my vision be waiverable? If not, would I be obligated to serve six years based on the needs of the Army?

I have a similar question in this regard. I am currently DA select and waiting for class date. My initial flight physical was approved November 2008 with my worse eye being 20/40. Do we take another flight physical immediately before we start flying at Rucker? Or since mine is good until May 2010 (18 months), I will have to take one regardless of flight school date before expiration?... And hypothetically, if it gets worse than 20/50 by then, what happens? I am just curious.

For the original poster, I think there is a poster around here with the name "nwmountainroll"(sp?) he got a waiver for a similar situation and was selected "street-to-seat"...

Bushmaster:
They recently changed the the policy over at 1st WOCC regarding flight physicals. I was in a similar situation not too long ago. You are able to class up as long as your flight physical is not over two years old -- I believe it has to be no older than two years old through your graduation date. After that you will take a flight physical while awaiting JOPD.

As far as your eyes getting worse at that point, I wouldn't stress about it too much. My roommate's vision worsened and they gave him glasses to wear when he flies. It seems that the people here who end up having medical issues are things that come out of left field and that you could never be aware of beforehand, and honestly it's not too often that even happens.

Voski,
If worse comes to worse get LASIK. It will only delay you by three months at which time a flight surgeon will check you out, and as long as there are no problems, you'll be fine to fly.
As far as your concern over the "needs of the Army," again do not worry about it. I had the same fears prior to getting in, but as a street to seat aviator here if you can't fly you're not qualified to do anything else. Thus, on the negative you won't be able to stay a Warrant Officer in the Army if you're eliminated. On the positive, the Army is not going to just throw you somewhere else and say have at it. I know a few people that got Dq'ed after being almost done.

quote:

Originally posted by Jere2:
Bushmaster:
They recently changed the the policy over at 1st WOCC regarding flight physicals. I was in a similar situation not too long ago. You are able to class up as long as your flight physical is not over two years old -- I believe it has to be no older than two years old through your graduation date. After that you will take a flight physical while awaiting JOPD.

As far as your eyes getting worse at that point, I wouldn't stress about it too much. My roommate's vision worsened and they gave him glasses to wear when he flies. It seems that the people here who end up having medical issues are things that come out of left field and that you could never be aware of beforehand, and honestly it's not too often that even happens.

Thank you for the reply sir, I apologize I am not too familiar with some of the terms and training that takes place at Rucker yet. If I understand you correctly, I can graduate from WOCS with my current physical but before starting flight training I have to take another flight physical, (JOPD is before flying, correct?)

Fortunately my current physical covers until November 2010 with the new 2 years rule and I am sure I will start class by January 2010 and graduate long before it expires. With the new flight physical that we take while waiting for JOPD, if my vision progresses worse, my fear was to be DQ'd before ever starting flight training and classed as walking warrant.

My flight surgeon already mentioned that I would be wearing glasses (20/30-20/40 -.25D myopia/astigmatism) but are contact lenses authorized?

Bushmaster:
Contact lenses are not authorized due to the risk associated with a flash fire in the cockpit. At least, that's what I've been told the reason is. Either way it's definitely not allowed. Now I don't know what happens if your eyes worsen in between WOCS and IERW. That's a good question. In the next few days I should be able to find out. If all else fails I have a flight physical this week, and I'll just ask the flight surgeon. I can tell you with absolute certainty that if something happens to you medically during flight school you will not be reclassed a "walking Warrant." Walking Warrants are those who have been enlisted for many years and have a lare amount of technical experience with their respective MOS. This means that a civilian off the street is not qualified to be assigned such a position. If you get medically DQ'ed as a street to seat you're going home. They aren't going to tap you on the shoulder and tell you that you're infantry now. I know this because, like I said, I have several friends in this situation. If your condition doesn't preclude you from OCS then you can apply for that while awaiting the long process of being eliminated from flight school.
Yeah, right after WOCS you're cadre will schedule a flight physical for you while you're awaiting your next class -- Junior Officer Professional Development.
Like I said, I will try and find out the other question for you in the next few days.

Jere2, ask the doctor at the flight physical about LASIK, I believe that if you need it, you can only have it done once you are a qualified pilot (obviously, you can have it done before applying for WOFT), but definitely double check that..

quote:

Originally posted by Jere2:
Bushmaster:
Contact lenses are not authorized due to the risk associated with a flash fire in the cockpit. At least, that's what I've been told the reason is. Either way it's definitely not allowed.

Thank you sir, I had heard that Apache pilots go through some authorization process to get contacts, but I didn't know about flight school students, that helps.

quote:

Now I don't know what happens if your eyes worsen in between WOCS and IERW. That's a good question. In the next few days I should be able to find out. If all else fails I have a flight physical this week, and I'll just ask the flight surgeon.

I'd appreciate that sir. When I asked about this issue to my flight surgeon back in Nov 08, he told me that this was my initial flight physical, there won't be another one, obviously that is not the case. And back in Nov 08, I was fully qualified, and since that physical will cover my WOCS attendance, my vision might have already worsened to 20/50 or higher currently, I would not know anything until I came to that point waiting for JOPD. My vision doesn't feel worsened, but I am too chicken to initiate another physical before WOCS, I want to ship out without any problems.

quote:

I can tell you with absolute certainty that if something happens to you medically during flight school you will not be reclassed a "walking Warrant." Walking Warrants are those who have been enlisted for many years and have a lare amount of technical experience with their respective MOS. This means that a civilian off the street is not qualified to be assigned such a position. If you get medically DQ'ed as a street to seat you're going home. They aren't going to tap you on the shoulder and tell you that you're infantry now. I know this because, like I said, I have several friends in this situation.

In my old unit we had a CW2, Aircraft Maintenance Technician, that told us he was medically DQ'd during IERW, he said he had hard time hearing radios, a hearing test revealed his hearing was bad enough to be DQ'd. That didn't make sense to me but that is his story, although I am prior enlisted in aviation field, like he was. I am not street-to-seat.

quote:

Like I said, I will try and find out the other question for you in the next few days.

Thank you again sir, I am looking forward to finding out more this situation. I am thinking since only one eye might not progress more than 20/70 from 20/40 in such a short time given I am already 31, getting a waiver would make sense. But this is the Army and I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to DQ me from flight for worse vision in one eye.

Sir, I was reading some of the Aeromedical Policy Letters. In the letter titled "Decreased Visual Acuity ICD9 367.9" it says this;

WAIVERS:
Initial Flight Applicants: Failure to meet Class 1 visual standards will be considered for exception to policy on a case-by-case basis in the age of Refractive Surgery and considering the needs of the Army. Applicants must correct to 20/20, both near and distant. Uncorrected distant visual acuity must be 20/70 or better. Uncorrected near visual acuity must be better than 20/40. Cycloplegic refraction within 3/4 diopter of standards will be considered.

A waiver possibility would be nice, if it would be the case.

quote:

Originally posted by Jere2:
Voski,
If worse comes to worse get LASIK. It will only delay you by three months at which time a flight surgeon will check you out, and as long as there are no problems, you'll be fine to fly.

I had LASIK as a civilian specifically for WOFT and had a 6 month stabilization wait for my phys last spring, this could have changed however.

The decision to get LASIK must be made prior to ever shipping, or as stated by Karoline, after you're done with flight school. A guy I went through WOCS with is processing out of Bco right now because his vision is just below standard. He slid by on his initial flight phys and assumed he would be good from then on here at Rucker. He failed the next one and is going home. He will reapply hopefully after his surgery and recovery period, but you get the idea.

The odds are obviously in your favor though, the board gave you a perfect score.

quote:

Originally posted by if3ii:
A guy I went through WOCS with is processing out of Bco right now because his vision is just below standard. He slid by on his initial flight phys and assumed he would be good from then on here at Rucker. He failed the next one and is going home. He will reapply hopefully after his surgery and recovery period, but you get the idea.

Well this is no NO GOOD news at all. I wonder how far was he below the standard? By refraction or by acuity?

I just heard from Ft. Rucker and they told me this;

All incoming flight students are required to undergo a repeat Fort Rucker Class 1 flight physical. If you vision has changed and no longer meets Class 1 standards, it may be possible for you to be processed for exception to policy consideration. The standards is uncorrected DVA up to 20/50 and each eye corrects to 20/20. Exception to policy may be considered for uncorrected DVA up to but no exceeding 20/70 and each eye must correct to 20/20.


Now why not consider him for a waiver but send him home? Is there a no waiver policy because the school is too crowded? I know user "nwmountaintroll" here got in with an exception to policy...

I think it is due to that-if your vision is beyond the accepted point that you need lasik, but are not a rated aviator, you need a waiver which at this point, they are not accepting here at B Co. Yes, flight school is crowded and getting through with any waiver, SERE or dunker, is not allowed at the time. Good luck, keep pushing through until they tell you no.

quote:

Originally posted by Karoline2:
I think it is due to that-if your vision is beyond the accepted point that you need lasik, but are not a rated aviator, you need a waiver which at this point, they are not accepting here at B Co. Yes, flight school is crowded and getting through with any waiver, SERE or dunker, is not allowed at the time. Good luck, keep pushing through until they tell you no.

Interesting part is that how can one slip through if they are borderline LASIK candidates. ETP covers up to 20/70 and +/-.75D refraction error. You have to be much worse to be considered a LASIK candidate. Ask those who got it. I hardly doubt I will even hit 20/50, let alone 20/70.

Do you CERTAINLY know that they are turning down ANY vision waivers or like Ft. Rucker told me "case-by-case" basis?

I sure its case by case, but I don't know for certain. If you are borderline, I would think you can get a waiver. If you are no where close to the standards, then I'm not sure...

quote:

Originally posted by Karoline2:
I sure its case by case, but I don't know for certain. If you are borderline, I would think you can get a waiver. If you are no where close to the standards, then I'm not sure...

Hey Karoline, you said "they are not accepting here at B Co." Is the training company the decision authority on medical waivers? Just wondering?

Any word from you Jere2?

quote:

Originally posted by Bushmaster78FS:

quote:

Originally posted by Karoline2:
I sure its case by case, but I don't know for certain. If you are borderline, I would think you can get a waiver. If you are no where close to the standards, then I'm not sure...

Hey Karoline, you said "they are not accepting here at B Co." Is the training company the decision authority on medical waivers? Just wondering?

Any word from you Jere2?

Hey Bushmaster, you asking about waivers for eyesight while in flight school? You can get waivers, I think it all depends on how far off the standard your eyesight is. The waivers they are not accepting currently in flight school are waivers to like bypass SERE or Dunker (both need to be completed to start Primary).

quote:

Originally posted by Karoline2:
Hey Bushmaster, you asking about waivers for eyesight while in flight school? You can get waivers, I think it all depends on how far off the standard your eyesight is. The waivers they are not accepting currently in flight school are waivers to like bypass SERE or Dunker (both need to be completed to start Primary).

Yes vision waiver. In case I might need it you know. I also heard that you have to have your Security Clearance approved before SERE, mine being still "interim", in the case of still pending "interim" clearances they might waiver the SERE requirement so you can start primary, but now I learned from you that requirement is not waived. That is fine though. Not too worried about that as much as I worry about my vision. I checked it with a chart at home, I am still 20/40 on a good day, hopefully will stay that way for next 6-8 months.

Bushmaster, nobody's gonna deny you...

They'll be too worried about a Federal lawsuit