It seems that the norfolk is not following the rules set forth for space A travel.I am a retiree and know that i am basically the last category that will be allowed to board a Space A allocated seats. However in i had signed up for a flight from norfolk to Bahrain 3 weeks prior to the May 13 2008 departure date. I arrived at the terminal and presented the required documents and informed the passenger service personnel i was here for the flight that was scheduled to leave that evening. At 2230 that evening the announcement was made that any person requiring Space A travel needed to check in now as Space A was closing. Approximately 15 to 20 minutes after the announcement was made 3 people showed up to sign in for Space A travel on the flight i was trying to get on. The passenger service representative told these people they had missed the Space A call and if they still desired to be put on the list they would be placed at the bottom of list, as usual they began to complain so the representative passed them over to his supervisor. now the rules do state that anyone that signs up after the Space A final call will go to bottom of list after all categories. I listened to the reasons these 3 people gave as to why they did not sign in on time, unfortunately since i had been there for 9 hours waiting on this flight i saw these people in the terminal way before the final call for Space A had been made, 1 lady was outside in smoking area at 2200 hrs the reason i know this is because i was in this area before returning back inside the terminal and going to the snack bar upstairs where i saw the other 2 people eating and having a conversation with 2 other people. So their excuses were nothing but lies. They called my name for travel and my wife and myself checked our baggage paid our fees and were given boarding passes, this would tell any Space A passenger that their were enough seats to accomodate you. After we boarded the aircraft i saw the 3 people that were signed up after the space A sign up last call, i mean they were on the aircraft before me and they should have been the last ones to board. After my wife and i were seated and buckled in, about 5 minutes later a passenger servive representative approaced me and told me i was BUMPED from flight. So i gathered all my overhead luggage and exited the aircraft.I preceeded back down to check in area where i retrieved my bags and was refunded my Space A fees. On this flight 4 people were bumped all 4 were RETIREES. One of the retirees had just signed up for travel that day the other had signed up a week ago. The Supervisor on duty the nite of 13 May 2008 did a great injustice not only to myself but to the way Space A is set up to operate she should be reprimanded for her actions. The 3 people that did not sign in at the required time should have gone to bottom of list and never been allowed to travel when i go back to Norfolk in a few months i will confront this supervisor and really let her know she hasto follow the rules that are set up for Space A travel
When did CENTCOM start allowing space-a to Bahrain? Are you sure the others weren't space required passengers? What was they reason they gave you for being bumped?
Well if those people who weren't bumped were Cat 3, 4 or 5 then there is no way they would have been bumped before you because they are a higher category. Then it also depends on when they signed up and other factors. File a complaint but remember it may not always work.
I'd like to know if 8909762 brought up the issue real-time to the NCOIC when they deplaned? Bringing it to their attention weeks after the fact isn't much good - heck, they probably won't even remember it.
I'm also curious to know how they were going to travel as Cat-VI to Bahrain or were they just "on the flight to Bahrain"?
The plane doesn't go directly to Bahrain, but makes a few stops along the way. I would assume they are getting off at one of the stops as going to Bahrain on Space A is not allowed.
First of all to answer some of your questions. Centcom started allowing travel from Bahrain around March/April time frame. My travel started in Bahrain and i was authorized to return because of my signed Space A letter by Bahrain Commander. Also I was Space A Category 6 retired, however if you go to Norfolk Website for Space A I believe listed under Showtime the very first paragraph Explains what will occur when you try to sign in for a flight after the sign in time has passed. I don't believe there are any military personnel in charge of the passenger services section at Norfolk however i do believe there is a military officer in charge of the Terminal, and believe me once a person has done a bad deed they don't forget, they will say they can't remember but they do. Hopes this answers all the questions. There are a lot of Retired military working in this area Bahrain/Saudi and i must say that the Navy and civilian personnel working at terminal here in Bahrain at the Naval Base are the most courteous and professional i have seen. Not to say that all the passenger service personnel at Norfolk are bad but there seems to be alot of room for improvement. I hope some of this information will be helpful to some folks in their travels out of Norfolk
We were on the same flight as 8909762 and were also pulled on the flight going to Souda Bay and on to Baharain. We were the last to receive a boarding pass and and had 48 sign up days. There were two couples called about 10 minutes before us that that was after the party I answering. The two couples called before us, both loaded down with much luggage, were not pulled.
At 1137pm, an announcement was made only 3 minutes till show time .At that time, there were two lines of people out the door trying to be screened. They were mostly families. Men with orders panicked and hurried to check out desk to be signed in. First of all why can they come in at last minute and think they can make flight. Some families had been their for hours. And most Cat VI come early respecting the time frame to get checked in.
No one really knew when Cat VI were being called unless you had asked younger people siting around you and knew when they were called. The person writing and I think I probably remember who they are, had their boarding passes at least 10-15 minutes before the two couples called before us. They must have been called around12;30 since we were not called until about 12;40. We dropped out keys in drop box and went upstairs to board. When they called passengers for Souda Bay we boarded and found out seat on row 7. We sat there about 10 minutes. We knew that the couple writing were being looked for and another man. Then about 5 minutes later, we were pulled.
As we got off the plane there were aboaut 10-15 young men needing a seat. And at the entrance ramp there were at least that many more. They were evidently Cat 1 and II so why were not more people pulled from that flight.
As we left waiting room, several CatVI travelers asked if they had started calling for us. They were more than surprised to know we were leaving the plane. There is no way any more Space A could have gotten a seat later since we were in terminal at least 45 minutes after that trying to get loding and taxi finally to Little Creek. One of the ladies behind desk did find us a Navy ride to loding and for that we were thankful, saving us about 4$40-50 taxi cost.
We asked why we were pulled. Not real answer other that it could be weight. Well that was a rather lame excuse. But as Cat VI, we really don't have much we can do about the situation. We believe that we are given the privilidge to travel this way but I doubt that making a complaint would have changed anything. And too there was a man, probably a supervisor, that was not at all happy about answering any question anyone had. We found the civilian ladies behind the desk more that helpful. In fact my husband even filled out one of the request praising their help.
It was every evident that regulations were not followed. It was more than evident that Cat III-IV pushed their luck by getting to terminal at show time and They Got On.
I have fussed and fumed about the situation but this is the first wash out we have experienced. So we really can't complain since this is a pribiledge for us. I do think that regulations should be followed or else those who continue to skirt the regulations will not learn that rules need to be followed-- getting to the terminal in time to sign in!!!!!!!!
We could really be digusted about the entire process because we never found another flight going close and to top it off, we had planned finally to just return to Andrews to take our wonderful C-17 flight back to Jackson. HOWEVER, a air show there that week end interupted those plans and no flight back to Jackson.
Thank goodness for rental cars. We rented a car from Little Creek and headed for Jackson to retrieve our car and decided to then visit a sister in Montgomery Alabama. On that trip we discovered that Meridian MS has wonderful space a lodging. So all in all, we were disappointed but it won't keep us from flying Space a and will try again in Sept and be ready to go to Dover to get to Rota and work our way to Souda Bay.
I couldn't help but answer this email because I think most people would really believe this all happened. But we experienced the same thing and saw that regulations were not followed. And I still wonder how and why the two couples called just before us were not pulled also. Guess I will never know.
We asked why we were pulled. Not real answer other that it could be weight. Well that was a rather lame excuse.
Why is ensuring an aircraft meets its weight and balance requirements lame? Aircraft have crashed and lives lost due to not following weight restrictions.
Needless to say, if you had seen how much luggage was being checked on the flight by the few Space A people staying on the plane and the weight of some of the individuals already on the plane, you would have answered your rediculous comment. And when there were maybe 30 men and luggage still trying to get on plane as mentioned, you would understand the comment. It was not weight but the lack of following regulaions allowing Cat III-V checking in late. Evidently you were not trying to get on the flight and do not understand both emails that saw and experienced the same. Again, on a 767, and already 175 people loaded and at least 30 men with luggage trying to get on, it was not weight.
How do you know they were Cat 3? If there is 30 men together then that means it is a unit, command that needs to be going there for a reason. Cat 1, they can go in at anytime, bump everyone else when as they are on orders. This includes weight, they have no restrictions if necessary. This is from John A's Space A FAQs:
"Category-I, Space-Available passengers will be considered for any flight currently being processed even if the Space-Available roll call has already begun (roll call time passed) regardless of the current category being selected. "
Again,you are trying to argue a point that has not been stated. If you would reread, no one said that the men at the gate and door were catIII. It was quite evident that they were troops going to meet their ship since they were not in uniform. If you would read again, the two lines out the door trying to check in at show time and after show time were families!!!!!!!!!! The point still remains that regs were not followered. If you had taken as many Space A trip as I have, you would understant that this is not a point of argument but of facts. And being a Space a traveler, I quite understand the regulations and know that it is a priviledge to be able to travel this way. You may argue the point as long as you wish, but you evidently were not there and have no clue as to what both of our emails are saying. And again, I accept that I was bumped and know I can't do anything about it. And I certainly know that those who are traveling under orders to go to a duty post and return to duty point have first priority. What's the issue there!!!!!!! Other than you haven't read what has been written and these were comments and not points to argue. But that is your priviledge. I will continue to make Space a trips and enjoy them and count it a supreme priviledge that I can use this benefit.
Originally posted by janecarl: If you would reread The point still remains that regs were not followered. Other than you haven't read what has been written
I have read this thread several times. Since it was not asked at the time of the travel why these three (four?) people were accommodated it cannot be determined if the regulations were followed or not.
If a cat 6 signs up 48 days out... Arrives and checks in 9 hours early and a Cat 3 rolls in 2 minutes before roll call... He will get picked first... He is a higher cat and they will always pick them over cat 4/5/6 before roll call.
As for the lugggage thing... Each Space A member can only carry 2 checked bags.
Space R can come in 20 minutes after roll call and bump ANY space a passengers that would open up enough seats for these "troops".
It sounds as if the regs were followed... You don't get to stay on the plane because you signed up first... It's all by Catagories.
Hello lovecheese45 Perhaps if you click on the web link in the comment above yours you may be enlightened to what the true rules are for Space A roll call and sign in
Perhaps if you click on the web link in the comment above yours you may be enlightened to what the true rules are for Space A roll call and sign in
8909762, For Space-A passengers - yes, those are the rules. If a duty passenger shows up then those rules do not apply (which is what lovecheese was stating).
